Are You Too Scared to Name Your Price? (And Why)

Today on the podcast, we're going to have a very, very, very random conversation about pricing. Now, the reason why I say this conversation is going to be random is because it's based on a conversation that I had with a listener of the podcast today. And we talked about pricing and a couple of issues related to pricing, but in no particular order. However, I do recognize that this particular listener has some hang ups around pricing that I think are common to lots of people who are starting out new in business.

So I figured, let me just hope over here on the microphone and make a very quick recording so that we can well, let's say, elevate the mood of people who are coming in new to business and you have plenty of hang ups. You know, am I charging too much? Am I too cheap? How much should I charge? You know, all these sorts of things. Now, the listener of the podcast has requested that I do not use her real name. So we're going to call her Sophie Kuye.

And of course, that's not her real name. But for those of you who live in Lagos, in fact, for those of you who live close to Maryland, you will know that there actually is a street called Sophie Kuye. And that's because that's where my wife grew up, and it's close enough to the lady's name. So I said, let me just use it. So Sophie, if you're listening to this podcast episode, yes, this is about the conversation that we had.

I'm respecting your privacy, so I'm not using your real name. And for those of you who are listening to the podcast for the first time, since we're talking about names and you're wondering who is this guy? What's his name? My name is Tavishima Aede. I'm the host of the podcast. I'm also a radio show host and a business consultant. And if you'd love to connect with me, you can call, send me a text message or a WhatsApp message on 08064662140.

And if you love talking about business issues, then subscribe to the podcast because that's all I do here every single week, sometimes 4-5, maybe 6-7 times a week. So subscribe on Spotify, YouTube, Apple, or any player of your choice. And there's a lot of value that is already here because once you subscribe, you will see that in this feed. We have over 1300 episodes and yeah, they're here for you for free. So subscribe and dig in.

All right, so like I said, random conversation on pricing and it's based on the conversations that we had. I had with Sophie Kuye, again, not her real name. So Sophie reached out to me on WhatsApp. She said she appreciates the podcast, especially the episodes that I did around the social and media managers. Now for those of you who are new to the podcast, may be listening for the last month or two, you remember I did a series where my core thesis was that those of you who are social media managers, content managers, you will always remain, excuse me,

you will always remain undervalued. People will continue to price you like Groundnut until you wake up and realize that when people engage social media managers, when people engage content creators, business owners, what the business owner actually wants is profit. So stop thinking that your job is a pretty post or creating content calendars or keeping the Instagram populated. So despite your best efforts, if somebody has engaged you as social media manager, the person is a business owner.

The person has been paying your salary or paying your contract fee or whatever for two months and the person never sees shishi no profit. The person will say you are not doing your job no matter how pretty those posts are. And that is precisely the reason why business owners look at you people and continue to price you people 50K50K. It's because they're looking for revenue and you guys refuse to take part in the revenue conversation.

Now, for those of you who listened, you'll remember that part of my thesis was this. You don't even have to tell the business owner that, look, I'm going to guarantee you 50 posts. The 50 posts are going to bring you 2 customers. No, it's not within your power, but you need to have that conversation from the outset and set expectations. You tell them, Sir, Madam, usually when people hire content content manager or social media manager, people usually think they're paying for revenue.

Is that the case? Are you hiring me because you think my activities can be directly tied into revenue? Then you keep quiet and hear what Oga or Madam has to say. If they say yes, you can now Savile back and say, OK, I understand Sir, it's perfectly reasonable. But I cannot justify any financial returns because all I can do is produce content. The content that I produce can lead to an increase of engagement. But however, it is people who have customer facing functions.

It is your sales people or the person who actually man's the Instagram inbox or the WhatsApp inbox, you know who will be responsible for sales. So you can't tie me directly into that. But however, since I've been doing this job for the last 3-4 years, blah, blah, blah, I'll be able to bring some insights around this kind of behavior and that kind of behavior. Hopefully that should be able to lead to greater revenue. So are we in agreement that as you're hiring me, I am not responsible?

I'm sorry. I'm not responsible for revenue outcomes. Have the conversation before you collect money so that they won't be quarrel because definitely I can assure you anybody who's dropping money for our services, the person is expecting revenue at the end of the day. So social media managers, content creators, stop burying your head in the sand. Have the conversation outright. If you're willing to step to the challenge, no problem and be responsible for revenue, no problem.

If you don't think that's your job, have the conversation on 1st. If the person strongly insists that no, the reason why I'm paying you 400 a month is because I expect to see revenue results, then don't collect that money. Do not. I know you somehow to hear me say it because you know times are hard. But like what do you prefer? You collect the guys 400, you collect his 350. Then the end of the month you will start quarreling.

The guy will be saying where the where the customers. You will not be shouting back and forth. They now start playing those CD games where the guy pay you for one month, then you work for two weeks and they say you know what, less than this team you now says that's saying where's my money? I've worked two weeks and the guy says which money neighbor will now start quarreling back and forth. You now be dragging yourself all over social media.

Have the conversation upfront, then let's see what else did I say about social media managers? I can't remember. That was a long time ago, but basically, if you're a social media manager and you're a content creator, you've been having some of these tensions in your business, Then just continue to scroll. You will scroll more than a month or two months worth of episodes. Just look for anything that has social media in the title and you will get caught up to speed.

So Sophie Kuye, she said that she appreciates the podcast. She loved those episodes and that's why she's reaching out because her own problem is Sophie said that she's scared of naming her price. She's talking to somebody looks like they're a good deal, like like they're a good fit. The person says how much. That's where she will now hook. She could have fair small like how can she say her price? Also, there's some issues that happen in sales and business development.

We call this scope creep. Scope creep. Scope as in SCOPE. Now scope creep happens. In fact, those of us who are who used to be wedding photographers mean we know this thing. We know it well. Scope creep is when somebody agrees that we'll pay 250 for XYZ. They now transfer the money. You start the work as you start. Now by the time you deliver X&Y, they'll say, uh huh, you get one thing way, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then you say it's not a big deal. Now I beg, I beg. They would just add it before you know it. Now deliverables is now XYZ plus one after a while, don't now say a beg or boy no vex, you know this thing something before you know it divided another thing that's XYZ +2 and before you know it, the good they add the good they add the good they add. That's what we call scope creep. As per the initial scope was like this.

Now we don't they creep, we don't they add small, small, small. That's how some people, they try and be smart to pay you for something, Then you'll now be adding extra on top. That's scope creep. So those of us in the wedding photography space now, we're used to that kind of behavior. You will discuss with the bride. You discuss. You will agree. Yeah. OK. It's just wedding day, Abby. It's just Thursday for trad. Thursday, Saturday.

I agreed, Abby. No problem. You guys want one book, Abby? No problem. Two friends, no problem. Only two shooters. I'll be no problem. OK, from this time to this time, no problem. They will transfer the money, but no problem. And that's how on Thursday, now as the traditional is going on and everything, everything is going on fine. You know, everything finished, you do. Picture as you're rounding up the bird. Now say, are you going?

You say yes. Now. Now go ahead to go listen. Well, you know my husband, he and his boys, they came in from Katuna and from here we want to enter one or two places. Now you know, I beg you suppose you see that scope creep You will agreed for wedding day only Thursday and Friday as soon I don't finish Thursday. Now they'll say how far. Now as per you know, we hit the town small after party day, at least just show for the after party at least just give us like you know, small shots like one hour that scope creep that people be adding and be adding.

So this is something to watch out for. For those of you who are new in business, you know, Nigerian, some Nigerian customers, they like to be sharp. So these are some of the small games they will they will try with you. They agree on one 2-3 you will agree everything is in writing on the very day now or as you they fulfill, as you they deliver, they now start to add small, small, small. So for Sophie, this was a scope creep.

You agree on social media management. I have no problem. Mode and manage. Then you begin. Next thing they're now saying, hey Sophie, I beg. Sure you know how to design. So excuse me. Sure you know how to design. I know how to design. I beg, I beg, I beg. Just one. Just this post. I beg. Just have me design. Just just this post. I just one, one. That's how you design one. There's more time again they'll say I beg, I beg.

I beg. I beg. You know, this thing you're doing is is very, very good and you know, there's engagement and all not but I beg Sophie, I'm overwhelmed like the WhatsApp community, the Facebook community, but I need help. I beg. Please just help me out. You know, I know it's not part of your job. I beg just help me at least this Friday, just help me, you know. So from like that now first you will agreed on social media management.

That's how they've now added designer to your work. That's how they've now added community manager to your work. And then you will agreed on 200K. Excuse me but I didn't want to add anything on top that 200K even though they're adding to your work. So that is what is called a scope creep. So those are the 2 problems for Sophie. She doesn't know how to call her price because she's not too confident. And then when they agree to work, now the person will begin,

they do scope creep. So please watch out for scope creep. That's why it's important to set expectations very well from the beginning. And to be absolutely clear. So I had a couple of questions for Sophie and she didn't really answer them to my to my liking, but these are the questions. The first question was how much do you charge versus how much does the competition charge? Then I also asked them how much you need to survive, you know,

especially when you consider the number of clients that you might get in a month. Then I also asked what is the value that you promised for such amount? Because you know, it's not just a matter of you know, how much, it's also a matter of what you provide. Because you might hear that somebody is charging, let's say 500K per month and you say 500 K is big. But then by the time you look at the deliverables, you see that the person is delivering plenty.

You say, no, this person, they're actually shooting themselves in the foot. Now for what they're delivering, they actually should be charging 1.5 instead of 500 K. So at the end of the day, it's not how big is the amount? It's not did you charge 50K or did you charge 200 or did you charge 800K is also what were you delivering for that amount? So that was one question. Then also I had to ask her the main question. Ask that point blank.

Do you, you Sophie, do you think you're too expensive? Because for those of you listening to this podcast now, you feel like you're a Sophie situation. The problem is that you listening to this podcast right now, you actually think you're too expensive. That's the reason why you do fear. That's the reason why they shake. That's the reason why your mouth is not strong. When you call their mouth, you actually think you're too expensive.

So I have to ask her now, I'm not being harsh here. I'm just trying to figure out where the problem lies because depending on the answer she gives to the question, you know, that's all determine was the next the next way forward. Then I also asked her, how long have you been in business? Because sometimes there's a correlation. When you're coming in, you you know, you'll be too confident. You know, your legs never are strong yet you don't know the layer of the land.

You know, you still have baby feet. You're still trying to survey. So these are some of the things that affect that's also the reason why my first wedding, I've said it lots of times on the podcast. This is your first time listening. Let me repeat it again. My first wedding, I charge 50K by the time I finish photo book plus transport plus battery plus Gala. Because what I do on on the wedding day because I don't like to be late.

That's back when I was in Lagos. I know that traffic in Lagos is mad. So the night before I'll buy Gala like 7-8, then buy Fanta, maybe like 22 bottles of Fanta, That's the big ones. Then just chew them up so that during the day I'm taking care of, you know, just go to sip my Fanta and then eat my Gala. Just keep myself, you know, keep myself gallant with energy on the move. So Gala plus battery plus taxi plus everything because where was the wedding itself?

I can't remember where the wedding was and I didn't have a car then and I said I can't carry Mumsy's car to this kind of neighborhood. So I say you know what, let me just carry taxi there, Judge Jelly and then taxi back. So by the time I finish, remember I collected 50K from this couple. By the time I finish everything I spent like 4047500. Mumsy laughed at me at Mumsy laughed. She said that wish my should have just stayed at home and dashed the bride 5K and my mind is like, yeah, actually, mom,

she's right. I said I've just stayed at home and told the bride, you know what, that 50K just keep it. Let me even dash you 5K like, you know, happy wedding, happy wedding life, happy marriage life. But then it was good. I like the experience because you know, that's that's how you learn. That's how you learn. Where was I? So do you think you're too expensive, Sophie? Do you think you're expensive? Any other person listening to this?

Do you think you are too expensive? If you identify with Sophie, how long have you been in the business? And then also asked her how many satisfied clients do you have now? These questions, they're important and This is why. How much does the competition charge? Sometimes whether you're too expensive or not, you can know based on, you know, the lay of the land. If you come to a part of the country and let's say you sell purple cream for skin, 'cause people want their skin to be bright, they want their future to be bright.

So if you sell purple soap but you happen to be in the neighborhood where or in the locale in a setting where people don't really have money, you know the market is the market. The amount of money that Lagos babes will pay for purple soap and Abuja babes and Portaco babe will pay for purple soap might not be the same that to worry babes will pay for purple soap. So some things are just a function of the market. It's unfortunate but that's just how it is.

So it gets on things way. If you want to sell them in New York, you collect good money, but then if you want to sell it in Tennessee, you know the pepper will know, the money will not. Do you understand There's some things that you sell in Abuja good money. If you enter marketing, they'll be pricing you cherry weather they'll be pricing you anyhow, pressing you like Chile Cambia, as in you know, like no worth. So the competition.

How much are they charging? There's not a bad way to survey to look at the whole thing. Then, of course, we also have to be frank, because how I put it is then I mean, you know yourself now and you know your your lifestyle requirements. So there's certain amount of money that you just need. So if you're getting 22 clients every month, you know, you can just do the math and say, you know, what if I get 22 clients every month and I'm charging each of them 5500K, that's 1,000,000 every month, you know,

I should be OK. So sometimes you do that math as well. Of course. What are you promising to to give for that amount? Because remember, that's the main thing that will determine whether you are charging too much or charging too small then OK, I've already explained that. Do you think you're expensive? That's a big thing to consider. The length of time in business was spoken about that OK hand number of satisfied clients.

Now the reason why number of satisfied clients is important is this by the time you've been doing something for a while, you've interacted with a few people, you get a sense of why people like doing business with you. They say, Sophie. Well, first of all, you have to ask and people will tell you outright that look, Sophie, the reason why I do business use because when I call you, you sort me out, you do this, you're the, this, you're the that you get a sense of unique value proposition.

These are the kind of things that fill you with confidence and you even know the good stuff that you're bringing to the market. Now, the example that I've given my own experiences back as a wedding photographer, I'd never asked anybody this. So one of my longest clients, I asked her, you know, why do you do business with me? And she said, I don't know, I just like you and I mind, I'm thinking, what am I going to do with that?

I just like you. Yeah, but anyway, I was not deterred. I kept on asking other people, kept asking other people. And then I noticed the pattern emerge. I thought people were going to say your photography is wonderful, your, this is, you know, your style, your blah, blah, blah. I thought they were going to commend my technique. But then I started hearing some things like, you're never late, you're very professional, you're always on time.

For one bride in particular, remember her, she said, you are the only wedding vendor that I didn't have to worry about. I started hearing things like that and it became clear that the reason why people did business with me as a wedding photographer was not on the artistic side per SE, but more on the professional side. And two things. Number one, it broke my heart because I thought I was a very good photographer. Only people to say, Oh my God,

Mr. Yedi, your photos are fantastic. Your photos are Oh my God. But anyway, that's not what they said. So they didn't really pay me. Sure, you pay me, but then I also took it as a good thing that were shows I'm a correct guy. I'm professional. Whenever I told my mom say mom, she laughs, she say you. Well, that's because, you know, when it comes to business affairs, at least when I was in a photographer, because I'm in the habit of getting laid, I

always make sure that when it comes to paying jobs, I always make sure I left the house on time. So moms, he laughs. He said people say you keep time. I say yes. So mommy, that's what they say. And that's because of my personal affairs. I'm late when it comes to money. You will see me on time. On time. If it's money and we say 9:00, you will see me there. 835 S where was I? So that's why number of satisfied clients is very, very important.

So you should be talking to people, figure out why they do business with us. We'll know what our unique value proposition is and it'll also give us some confidence behind what it is that we're charging. And honestly, there are one or two customers who will tell you that, who'll be frank with you. Say, Sophie, you know what, Sophie, let me not tell you lie between you and me outside, this is what people are charging. So Sophie, you need to raise your price.

But Sophie, you know that you and me, we're cool now, so let's just maintain this level that we're on. But honestly speaking for future clients that you're getting this, how much you should be charging. So yeah, you will get some people who have that conversation with you and tell you that look for the quality of work that you do be underpriced. All right, so let's see what else now. So high response now, it didn't surprise me.

Sophie said yes, that she's overcharging. That's what she feels like, she's overcharging. And for a lot of you, you let some personal things get in the way. They actually feel as if you're overcharging. So that's the reason why your mouth is shaking. When I started off at the time, you know, before then salary earner. So never had to fend for myself. So having to call 50K, by the way, this, this was a long, long, long, long, long time ago before I got married.

So I went to call 50K. Then the money sounded big in my mouth. The money, the syllable was sounding heavy in my mouth, sounding very, very heavy. So anyway, some Risha, she thinks she's overcharging. That's what she said. Now the question of the competition. I'm surprised by the figure, by the way, you know, how will I put it? Just not all of us are in Lagos or in Abuja. So just take that into account when you hear the amount.

So a competition is charging like 80 K 100K social media management. But she she says she's OK with 60K 'cause remember, like I said, you know your own lifestyle. So you do the math. So some people do that math that OK, if I can get one customer 60K and I can collect like 10 clients, that's 600K in a month. You know, some people do that kind of math. So far as she said 60K, she can collect from one person, 60K, she's OK.

But then she also said she's only been in the business for one year, which didn't surprise me because when we're coming in, you, you know, we have baby legs, we're still weak in the knees. So we're still trying to know what's up. So all these psychological issues will come up and then she has only had two customers so far, of course, which is also not a surprise. So that's the reason why I asked all these questions to understand the background.

You know, where she's coming from. But anyway, don't worry, over time you will learn in the beginning, you think you're, you think you're overcharged in the beginning, no problem. Start the work first. By the time you handle like 910 clients, you will learn that you are underpriced. You will learn you won't stay there for for too long. As for those of you who are in Sophie's situation, but this was the biggest problem.

Basically she's looking at this social media management thing as a side hustle because she already has a business in the perfume space and that business is bringing in good money. So she just wants to maintain this thing as a side hustle. So that's also a problem. So she's never looking at this thing as you know, the main thing. And of course, I tried to harass her the way I harass other people who are trying to float two things at the same time, two or three.

She even tried her own. It's just true. There's some people that hit me up, honestly speaking, they're trying to float like four or five. There's one guy talking to. And if you're listening to this right now, you know, is you that I'm taking jobs at the businesses that we have reached in town already. They don't reach like 1112. So I tried to bully people that, look, you know what, we can't really make traction from a sales and business perspective until we kill a couple of these bad eggs and just pick one.

Just pick one. Let's make traction on this one first because this whole thing about serial entrepreneurship is like this. The people who are successful Syrian entrepreneurs, what they do is they don't build 4 businesses at the same time. You build 1 until it's strong, when that one balance, the profit is good, revenues are OK, standard operating procedure in place, the team is OK, management structure, everything don't set.

You will now leave business one and then start on business 2. That's how they do it. And from 2:00 to 3:00, from three to four like that, like that. So I keep giving the example of Dangote. Dangote did not start cement factory plus spaghetti factory plus sugar factory plus refinery all at the same time. In fact he started as a transporter from transporter into trading, from trading into importing cement, from importing cement into manufacturing cement as in small, small, small,

small, small. So that's how it works. You start first you become strong, you crawl, then you walk, you walk, then you run, you run then you now do high jump. That's how it is. So I tried to harass her pick one when she no agree so she she will run the two of them. So anyway, no problem. So you know, at the end of the day, you can't all I put it so you can lead the horse to the river, but you can't make you drink. So I freed but this is my own response that is my own opinions about all the things that we've been talking about so far around pricing.

We, I know we've been talking for 30 minutes, so I'll wrap it up soon. When it comes to pricing, for those of you who are new, this thing that I'm saying is going to sound very strange to you. But like I say, over time you will learn in the beginning, oh, I'm too expensive. You've only had two or three clients. By the time you have 10/20/30, you will learn that you are underpriced, you're overpriced. So what you do is when you come in, you charge what the market can accommodate.

Let me repeat, you charge what the market can accommodate. It's not about you. It's not about your feelings. See. Well, of course, you know, I'm assuming that you're an ethical person and you're trying to do your best, you're trying to deliver value, but you charge what the market can accommodate. It is called value based pricing. If other people are charging 80 to 100 that's on average. I know for sure that in that market, definitely people that are charging two 5300 like there is room charge what the market can accommodate value based pricing.

We price what the how do I put it, what the market feels that it is worth, not what you you think it is worth. So if you think something is only worth, you look at the thing up, you look at it down, you think this thing is only worth 5K. But meanwhile in the market people who think this thing is worth 120K, then it's not about you remove your feelings from this equation. You think it's 5K and so the market thinks it's worth 120K.

Go ahead, charge 120. You won't be helping yourself if you're using your own eye to be selling market. It's not about you. The other approach of thinking what do I need to live? How do I break even? You know that's OK, it's not bad. But we only do that in the beginning, you know when we're not sure we that's called cost based pricing. So you start off with cost based pricing in the beginning because you're trying to understand what's going on.

Ultimately, you're moving through value, value based pricing, especially as your skill set improves, You know, your skills improve, your confidence improves, you move into, you move into value based pricing. But whenever I stay at cost based pricing because that charging 60K, it might not look like it's bad. But The thing is that's just break even. That's just survival and it's bad. Break even is bad. Survival is bad.

This is why because for business growth and for personal growth, we need the excess. Some of you think excess is a bad word, but let's be real here. For business growth, for personal growth, for the business to grow, for my family to grow, for me to grow, for things to be moving, you see how the economy is going. For things to be moving correct in One Direction, we need this excess is the excess that will allow us to survive and to thrive.

Is the excess that I will use to reinvest in my business? Is the excess I will use to train myself? Is the excess that I will use to buy material? Is the excess that I will use to research and development is the excess that I will use for, you know, networking for whatever. We need the excess for personal development, for business development. We need the excess break even, you know, pay. It's not paying you. It's not paying anybody.

You need the access to reinvest in the business. Then you also need the excess so that you can flex and leave that sort of life. That's the whole point of being self-employed. If we're going to be self-employed or run businesses and then we're going to be living. Living from how do they say it? Is it from pillar to post? I'll be living from hand to mouth or whatever they call it. Like what's the point? Just go back to paid employment.

It's less stressful. The whole point of doing what we do is that we want to flex wonders of life. We need the excess and it's even an access that will provide the incentive for us to continue because after a while it's not motivating for it to be grinding away, grinding away, grinding away at that 60K. Then by the time you finish, the end of the month is there. You now pay for DSTV, you go to market, what else? You pay school fees.

Then by the time you finish, you look at your account and then there's nothing there. That is the reason why you meet somebody, you know, they say 2026, my year of this, my year of that. You know, they resign in December. They're feeling all motivated. You know, the future is bright, everything this and this and that and that. Then they start in January, by the time you greet them in April. So boy, after an hour is business, you say, man, this is noise.

You, you find out that the guy has left business. He has gone back into paid employment. That's why no excess, no surplus, no motivation, and so they fade. Well, ultimately the biggest thing that I want to say to Sophie and other people who are in Sophie's situation, in case I haven't stressed it, is price has nothing to do with you. Price has nothing to do with you. If the client think it's a reasonable amount, good let them pay.

It's not about you. Take for instance me one of my clients based in Lagos who is in the solar industry. To be sure that the sales team on point, I called a couple of their customers that some of those people that were pricing solar installation 40M50 MI personally, Tavi Shima IED will not carry 40 million to buy a solar system. I won't. If any of you listening to this podcast now you love me and you want to improve my life and you say tavish in my WhatsApp, give me your contact details.

Let me why are you 40 M go and buy solar. Let me be frank with you. I will take excuse me, I'll take that 40M all right, and then I'll take 5 million out of that 40 and I'll use it to buy solar system 1 kva because you know, it's a small family. It's me and my wife and you know, we don't have too many kids running around. And then plus 1.5 kva, that's enough to give us power, you know, for like, I don't know, maybe 7 or 8 hours or something.

But basically with the 1.5 kva plus Napa, we should be sorted. So I'll take that 5M6M by 1.5 kva now out of that 40369 remain happy. I'll use now use that 36 M and sort out other things, but I was not looking at me. I was not looking at the fact that me, I will never carry 40M50M and buy solar. If they are good with the conversation, if they are good with the system, if they are good with the everything, then I'm perfectly fine carrying on the conversation because it's about them.

If they value it, it's about them. So don't be using your own eye to sell market. You don't use yourself to sell market. All the people that sell Bentley remember this car that I mentioned that the video bought that the thing made me mad that I just left Instagram. I said what kind of rubbish is he? See the small boy, he's driving car 1 billion naira, 1 billion. The people that are selling that work in that shop that sell that car.

How many of them do you think can drive that car? None of them, but it doesn't mean it's not about them. I'm sure they think these cars are overpriced. That has somebody be dropping 1 billion naira for one car? They definitely think it's overpriced, but it doesn't matter. Davido is working in there. Davido sees this thing and Davido says that's a sweet car and then he drops 1 billion naira. Bam, say give me my car. It is not about you, Sophie, and anybody who feels like Sophie Price has nothing to do with you.

It is about our potential customers. It's about what they value. Like take me on my Bluetooth keyboard. I don't like doing using laptops. I use a Bluetooth keyboard. I hook it up to my phone. Some people see me working without my sister-in-law. She looks at me and she say tech daddy, tech daddy. I'll laugh. And people be, you know, they look at me one kind of like see this one, see this one, See this one UU. So you will never spend money to buy a Bluetooth keyboard.

That's for you. For me, I value this kind of thing. So I buy the Bluetooth keyboard. I have the gaming headset and I buy all those other small, small things that I need because me I value it. So you, the seller, it's not about you. It's not so. So Sophie, any other person listening, do this thing that you have this kind of hang up, remove yourself from the equation. So long as the client thinks that is a reasonable amount, if they have the money, if these are the kind of monies that they play around with, then please remove yourself from the equation.

Now, these are some other ideas around pricing for those of you who are new, we've looked at what have we looked at? So forgive me, I lost my train of thought. Where did we start now cost based pricing, how much does it cost for me to stay in business? OK, it cost me 240K. If I'm able to get 4 customers in a month and I charge each of them 6060 K, that means I should be able to stay in business. OK, let me be charging 60K.

That is cost based pricing. But then we move value based pricing. It's not a matter of how much do I need to stay in business. It's not a matter of how much is the market willing to accommodate. Those of you who sell gold, you know what it is that I'm talking about. If the market is willing to accommodate this amount, this is what the market is willing to accommodate. And that's the reason why some of you who like gold, that's the reason why it's possible for some of you to buy gold now and then.

You know, in five years, 10 years, you sell it more than two, three times the amount of what you bought it for because the market can accommodate it. So eventually you move to value based pricing. Then there's also tiered pricing for those of us who offer services or who are even doing software as a service. You know, these kinds of pricing models apply now, OK, for XYZ kind of service at this kind of deliverable, you pay this amount.

If you move to this amount of deliverable and whatever will now increase to this amount. So it is tiered, it is structured at this level, this amount. We move up to this level, this amount, we move up to the level, this amount. So for those of you who do software as a service, this is something that applies to you people, OK, You can use my app, you can use my website, you can use my application for your business. How many employees do you have?

You have 10, OK, Because of that, we are charging you XYZ per head the moment you guys want to now log in another extra five people to the system. So when we negotiated first it was 10. If you want to add extra 5, this is how much you pay extra. That is tiered pricing or usage based. Then there's some people who come in with a market penetration strategy. Market penetration basically just means you're coming in at a low price because you want to grab all the customers in the market.

You want to frustrate everybody. Which are low prices. So they say, you know what, I can't compete and then they will leave. Then when you leave, you now see if you can Jack up the price. Now this is not something that people in the SME space can do because it requires scale. So the big, big boys, they can be playing all these games, all right? So like in consumer goods and stuff like that, somebody can come and say, you know what, OK,

like these people wants their name. I can't remember again. Sure, I think you sure. Excuse me? Sure. SUREI think they came in during during COVID, they started making what's it called, sanitizers. They started making sanitizers. After a while they started making soap. So I think that that was like their own strategy when it came to making soap. So you can say you're coming in with a low price. You know, people will rush to your soap and after a while, you know you're the main soap in town.

When people think about soap, they think about you. You cornered the market, everybody rush you after it took a while, you now start trying to raise your price. But the problem with market penetration strategy is you know it's hard. You need the scale. And then in sales and business development, we say that people come as they go. You know, they even say it in relationship too. Now somebody will say that why are you surprised that she left you, you know collector from somebody's hand, there's no money you use and collector from somebody's hand, another person has come with more money, so the person has collected from your hand.

So it's the same thing. If they come on price, they will live on price. Customers that you have because you're using market penetration strategy, you are using the low price to attract them. If another person comes with lower price, you know some of them will move. So it's not an easy strategy to execute Basha when you're coming in brand new into an industry. These are some of the frameworks around pricing. But ultimately, I just wanted Sophie to know and anybody who is in a similar situation to know that price has nothing to do with you.

You don't use your own eye to judge how it is that you sell market. You don't, You don't. That's the reason why if I'm selling solar, I can have a comfort conversation with somebody comfortably. If we, even if we're talking 120 million, like I have a conversation with someone comfortably because even though I know I will never spend 405120 buying solar equipment, I know that it's not about me. What is this guy trying to achieve?

What kind of system, what kind of power outputs are they trying to achieve? What is the problem that they're trying to avoid? What is the vision that they're trying to achieve? If at whatever vision they have, this is what the corresponding price is going to be. You know, it is what it is. If they like it, the conversation will continue. If they don't like it, they will move. But either way, there will be another person.

And in fact, when I was brand new and this hadn't sunk in yet, I heard, I heard was it Grand Cardone? I can't remember. I think it was Cardone. He was talking to somebody and I heard him ask the person. He said, is there somebody selling it at this price? And then the person was quiet. I can't remember what the service was. What do I talking price say is there somebody sending at this price? Personal squat, He say, answer me now.

Is there somebody saying at this price place and say yes, say which business is that? You call the business name, you say and that's it. I don't need to know anything more. If there's somebody sending it at this price, you can sell it at this price as well. So instead of us sitting down here talking about overpriced, underpriced diseases that that that are there people selling at this price? Yes, they are. That means it can be sold at this price.

So we're better off spending our time figuring out how can we sell at this price. Oh please, those of you coming in brand new into the space, you know, stop using your own eye to sell market. Stop thinking that you are over charging. Even if you honestly do. By the time you have done Jackie work, you have done slave work for 2030 customers. You, you yourself, you wouldn't know that you have to raise your price or you resign or you stop this business and go back into paid employment.

But on a personal note, Sophie, if you're listening, I'm still insisting pick 1. And in my own opinion, the perfume business is moving. Kill the social media management business. Kill it now. Perfume business is moving. Double your attention on this perfume business and get good, good returns there. This social media management thing is a distraction. The money is not even sweet. The money is pale in comparison to the perfume money.

Why are you wasting your time here? Kill the social media management thing. Focus on this perfume thing, Blow this perfume theme up, blow it up and enjoy your life. So that's it and that's all. Thank you very much for listening to the podcast. Remember, if any of you would like to connect with me because you have questions, comments or queries, then the number to call to send me a text message or a WhatsApp message is 08064662140.

Thank you very much for your time and attention. I'll catch you guys some other time.