Loading…
Auto-generated; may contain errors.
Loading transcript…
Hello and welcome to the show. Today's going to be a noisy episode because I'm out and about. I actually have to get to the mechanic real quick to get some work done on the car. So I figured let me just make this recording real quick because by the time I get to the mechanics, you know it can be now. So the noise that will be on another level. All right, so today let me see if I can accomplish 2IN1. That's because things are beginning to back up.
You know, the number of questions that I've been trying to address over here on the show now on my radio show, not the podcast on the radio show, he's beginning to pick up steam. People are beginning to call. And so the the number of questions and contributions are growing and growing and growing. And I would like to share some of those things with you guys over here on the podcast. So First off from about four weeks ago, there was a caller who called in.
His name is Chimezie and he called in from Loku Goma in Abuja. And he's in the business of selling computer accessories. You know, he imports them and then he sells them over here. And then when he called in, it wasn't for to give a question per SE, but he had advice for some other person that I was talking with on the air and trying to help them solve some of their problems. And he made some really valuable contributions that I want to share over here today.
So basically what Jimmy said when he called in was just to say that business isn't hard. Business isn't difficult. All you have to do is figure out the systems or frameworks, learn a bunch of stuff, and then apply it consistently and you'll be fine. Then he also said that cash flow management is important. So what's your income versus expensive expenses? Then he also wanted to give people realistic time frames because, you know, he's been in business for a while.
And then he also had a few things to say about partners, business partners, and how that can either hinder or promote the level of growth that you want to make in the business. So let's just freestyle on some of that stuff. So on the main thing, that business isn't hard, business isn't difficult. Well, you know, in a sense. But basically what he's trying to say, and when people say business isn't hard or it's not difficult, what they're trying to say is that business is not complex.
So yes, there are lots of moving things, but The thing is, if you can just calm down and slow down and not be scared for a minute, you'll be able to see that there are certain systems in at work, certain frameworks at work. And so the goal is just to understand the system and then start applying things on a small, small level every single day consistently, and then you'll be fine. And that's one of the core tenants behind me coming up with this podcast that selling is a system.
Selling is a framework. It's not about how, it's not about how smooth you are. It's not about how fast you can talk about how cool you are. It's not about personality. It's not about all those things like, yes, all those things help, you know, if you're a fine boy or a fine girl, yes, it helps. If you can't talk smooth, yes, it helps. But at the end of the day, there's a system in play. And that's the reason why you can meet somebody who is ugly and who is, I don't know,
whatever your definition of ugly is, or by the way, we shouldn't say that certain people are ugly. That's a conversation I've had with my son because, you know, in primary school, our children say all kinds of things. And so I've had that conversation with him, that, look, we don't call another human being ugly. It's just a fact of life that some people are much more conventionally appealing than others because it's a matter of convention.
Because if you notice, like, let's take men, for instance, what passes for an attractive man these days is definitely not what would have passed for an attractive man, you know, in my youth, OK, I'm still a youth. I mean, back when I was a young boy. So back when I was a young boy, you know, a man had to be, you understand, like a man. So it was Arnold Schwarzenegger. It was he man, what else? Superman, you know, So to be a man, you have to be buff, you have to be strong, what else,
you know? But nowadays, you know, we have metrosexuals, you know, skinny jeans and then that very skinny look, you know, for men these days, and then tight clothes and stuff like that. So, you know, these conventions, these conventions, they change. So basically, let's not call anybody ugly. But the point it is I'm trying to make is that, yes, you will see somebody who is fine and the person can sell, but you will also see somebody who is ugly in quotes who can sell better than the fine person.
And the point there is that it's the person's knowledge of the systems and frameworks around selling that is what leads to you being successful in selling at the end of the day. So let's keep learning, you know, listen to radio shows like mine, listen to podcasts like mine, go on the Internet, use Google, look for materials, try and get some internships, try and get some apprenticeships, learn. And then when you start your own business and you start applying things consistently, everything,
sorry, every day, everything will be all right. Because like Jimmy said, there's sometimes that he goes to the shop one whole week, not a single customer, but he still keeps going. And eventually he gets to that week where, you know, too many people just show up. And so it happens. Some days are high, some days are low. So that was one message from Jimmy said. I was saying I'm over here today. Then he also spoke about cash flow management.
You know, since he's in a product space is absolutely important. Cash flow just means money is coming in, money is going out. It's just naturally in business you're always receiving money from customers, receiving money from investors. What else? Maybe somebody dash you money, OK, no, we shouldn't consider that when it comes to business. So money is coming in from investors, money is coming in from customers. Then money also has to go out.
You have to buy raw materials, you have to buy inventory, you have to pay for staff, you have to pay for never you have to pay for Internet. So that's just what cash flow means. Money is coming in, money is coming out. So he said that Capital Management very, very, very, very important. You need to watch your cash flow. So for people like him who sell physical stuff, if you're spending IF800K is coming in every month, but then you're spending 1.4 million naira every month, you now know that there's a problem.
It means that every single month you're short 400 K. So there's a problem that you need to figure out. So he said, what's your drawdown? Those of you who have physical businesses, drawdown is just the amount that you pay yourself. One enters into your pocket. So be very careful. You know, what's your drawdown because you can be drawing down too much in the pocket. And then before you know if you have a problem. And then he also spoke about the importance of reinvesting cash into your business.
Then when it comes to time frames, this is the advice that he had for some of the young bloods that we were talking to on the show. He said that look, we need realistic time frames that too many people show up and they think they can blow in the short term. And remember when we say short term, short time is 00 months to one year or six months to one year, then medium term is 2 to three years, long term is three to five years and beyond.
So he said two to three years, you know, is a good time frame that show up, try the business. If by year 2, year three thing is not working now you know, you can throw in the tower. So in other words, if you want to get involved in the computer accessories business like Jimmy's, you know, you don't start in January 2025 and then by April 2025 you say, OK, this business is too hard. Let me let me leave, let me fold up.
I mean, like I haven't done anything. You've only been in the business. You've only been in the game for four months. So he said realistic expectations, you know, two to three years. And you know, I think that sounds about right. But whether you agree with two to three years or not, the main thing is nothing. For most people, nothing happens in the short term. You know, 0 to one year, nothing happens. You make some traction, you know, small, small, small.
But that big overnight growth, big boy, big girl, millionaire status, for most people, nothing happens in one year. Then Jimmy has also spoke about how we need trustworthy partners because the partners and the stakeholders that we surround ourselves with, these are the people that can either help us to move forward or hinder us. Like in his own case, you talk about how having people in his crew who are not trustworthy was beginning to slow him down because he was not free to execute.
You know, there's some things you can execute on if you look back and you see that your boys are shady. So if your boys and girls are shady, then, you know, you always have to keep putting eye on them and, yeah, you know, just slows you down. So he said we should learn how to select the right kind of partners. And yeah, that's something that I totally endorse. And they also spoke about the importance of separating personal problems from business problems.
They always have to be professional. Like he was talking about the death in the family. And it's something I can't relate to because back in the event or in the wedding space, yes, your family member has died. And you know, the bride and groom, they will say, but then they'll ask you that, OK, we still want our album. How can when are you going to deliver that album? You know, it's just the sad realities of life, you know, so bad things happen, but The thing is, clients still want their stuff.
So. Oh, OK. Your uncle died. Yeah. Sorry. Oh, sorry. Oh, but yes, I paid you 1.5 for the furniture. When are you delivering the furniture to my house? So they will condo with you for, you know, maybe 2 minutes, but then they'll quickly get back to the matter. That look. OK. I paid you for furniture. Where's the furniture? Well, I paid you for a car. Where's my car? Well, I paid you for solar panels. Where are my solar panels?
So he said we need to learn how to keep things professional, separate business problems or personal problems. And one thing I'm going to add is keeping things professional doesn't mean we deny that we are suffering, but not everybody needs to know our personal business. But either way, when we're in front of clients, we need to be attentive, we need to be paying attention to them, We need to be other focused. We need to be focused on them and their own needs.
You know, later on, then when we leave, you know, we can go to church and you know, go and pray or you know, maybe go and meet your wife and cry on her shoulder or something like that. Then we need to be diligent and we need to make sure that the customer is satisfied. So professionalism, you know, that's what it means. You're attentive, you're other focused, you're diligent and you're trying to work on customer satisfaction.
If you have personal problems, because let's face it, everybody has personal problems. And if everybody tries to unload their personal problems, I mean nothing will get done. I mean, like, imagine me now going to my mechanic and I said why I'm here. Nothing that we said for the AC. Well, let's do it. And then he starts telling me about problems at home. Problems. This is why problems with this kid problem with this problem with that.
I mean, I will listen to him and I'll like a a belly, belly. Sorry you, sorry you life is hard. You shall be well. You shall be well, you shall be well. And then after a while I'll just stop going there because we'll be like every time I go there, these guys offloading this personal business for me. So yeah, that was contributions from Chimney. Let's see. OK, so let me move on. So hold on, let me get my notes, let's see what else.
OK. Then there were also some guys that called in, there was Francisca who called in from Lube. And then another guy, Chuka, I can't remember which part of Abuja he called in from, but I love that question together because it was all around charcoal export. They wanted to know charcoal export, that business, is it feasible, Is it viable or is charcoal contraband? Now, of course, the reason why they asked those questions is because as I was yanning with somebody else on the show, you know, the whole thing came out about my me and my brother when wine business doing commodities exports, that's exporting sesame seed and exporting charcoal and how we intended to go into processing and exporting sesame.
So what's it called, Guy? What's this thing called now, Ori? Sheer butter. Sheer butter because these are things that grow around that. I was hired, you know, Benoit State, Nassau State, you know, we grow these kind of things, but we never got into that. So some people called up like, oh, OK, I've been hearing about this charcoal thing, you know, so what's up? Is it a good business? So it's charcoal trading. Is it feasible?
Feasible just means doable. The answer is yes, because there's overseas demand. People need charcoal for fuel. They need charcoal for recreation in the Middle East and in China. So they need charcoal to power some, some machines, some furnaces, you know, things like that. And then when it comes to the recreation part, you know, people like to smoke their shisha and smoke the, you know, all the kinds of things, all the smokables.
So that's the main reason why people buy charcoal from Nigeria. That's why people in the Middle East and in China buy the charcoal. And if you doubt what I'm saying, the next time you're in Abuja, the next time you're in Lagos, the next time you're in Kano, those go to any of these Hangouts, any of these lounges. You look, it's usually on the left corner. Just enter the room and then look to the left corner, the very dark part of the room.
You see some guys that huddle around the table and you see something that looks like a genie lamp or something. That's the shisha. So they put the water inside that thing. You put the lemon, you put the weed, you put the everything, you put the charcoal under. They now light the fire under the charcoal. And The thing is, you know how those of you who who like to who like to base, you know how you do your thing now. So you light up that thing and then the charcoal is sending the everything is warm and bubbling.
And then the weed will mix with the lemon fragrance, with the Rosemary and thyme with the everything. And then you smoke it and you give yourself a nice high. And I don't engage in that kind of stuff. But you know, whenever the few times that I go out, I always see them huddled around the table. Then we'll be passing the pipes around. By the way, are you guys supposed to be passing pipes like that? You don't know that.
If somebody has hepatitis and you know, you, you take a hit of the shisha, then you pass it to him. That's all of you. Just be shame hepatitis amongst yourself. So please, I don't endorse shisha, but if you must, if you must base, if you must unwind, then at least pay for your own personal shisha. Hold your own, get your own pipe. Don't be sharing pipes. All of you. You see eight boys gathered that you don't know, who has been kissing, who will not be passing nothing around.
Next thing somebody will give you herpes and you know hepatitis and all that stuff. So be careful even as we flex. So basically, yes, charcoal feasible. There's demand then for the exports, yes, it's viable. Viable just means am I going to get good returns? And the answer is yes. However, I told them that look, charcoal business, export business is not like it's not business the way that most of we Nigerians know because most of us who get into business in Nigeria, we start off basic, we start off small.
You know, you buy rice for 90K and then you sell the bag of rice for 125K, then you now made a profit of 35 K. That's how most of us get into business. Buy and then you sell or you buy bread at 900 naira wholesale, then you sell it at retail 1002 and you made a profit of 400 naira or whatever that is. So that's how most of us get into business. However, when it comes to international export, things become a little bit dicey, a little bit strange, depending on the products, depending on the part of the world, depending on the business traditions that they have.
So for charcoal, typically when we're selling it, we had to accept 40% deposit. We could not find anybody that will pay us 100% as, OK, we're sending you the charcoal, but then give us the money 100%. Of course, the angle that they're coming from is, Luke, I don't know you, you're just in Nigeria there. How do we know that we send you all these millions that you know, charcoal show? So what we were doing, the Standard Time we're doing was we'll collect 40% of the money for the value of the charcoal and then the remainder, the 60%
was going to be financed through letter of credit between the banks. Now letter of credit is a letter that is exchanged between both banks where one bank says, Oh yes, I know that my client is doing business with you and the client has given me the money. So the money is now in my own hand. When you deliver, I will transfer to the other bank. So with letters of credit, it is 2 banks talking to each other. So it's no longer me.
And OK, let's say I'm selling charcoal to Malam Abdul Kadir somewhere in the Middle East. So by the time we get letter of credit, it's no longer me and Malam Abdul Kadir talking one-on-one. But it will be our banks talking one-on-one and exchanging paperwork. So would have given instructions to the bank. Malam Abdul Kadir will tell his bank that look when I go and and I see my charcoal in the pot and everything is OK now make the transfer for the 60%.
And so that is how we were financing our trades. So you can see that it's a little bit technical. It's not as simple as you go and buy something for 900 naira and then you sell it for 1300 or let's say you're selling human hair and your human hair is 500 K, but the person is coming to buy the human hair will pay you your 500K cash upfront before they collect the human hair. So when it comes to trading charcoal and exports, you know,
the things are a little more, I don't know what's the word, but let me just say the first time that you meet you and you know, especially when we're talking exports, everything now is million, million million. The number is big. So the first time I won't like, you know, your leg will be shaking. You'll be like, hey, what am I committing myself to? I'm going to go and source these things, 400 and 100 of thousands of them for millions, and then I
will just send it to a total stranger. The person only gave me 40%. So the person doesn't pay. What will now happen? And actually, these things do happen. One of our most trusted customers, we had done lots of trades with the guy. So there was now no, no, you know, like No Fear because it's our guy now. We've already done like four or five trades. And then that time that the port was destroyed in Syria, was it Syria? I can't remember where there's a time where some port was blown up in the Middle East.
You know, we're going involved in some of these big because our consignment was on the ship and then the guy received it. I think they unloaded part of it. And then that's when the the explosion happened in the port. You know, some people said it was terrorist, some people said no, was just accident. But whatever it is, that's how the thing happened. And then our guy was now saying that him he's in a he's in a bind. That's in a difficult position.
But of course, we were already committed to the trade. So that's where quarrel now started. Like the remainder of our money. So how far? And you know, anyway, so these things happen. You can't commit to something hundreds and hundreds of thousands. You're entering millions and then basically will not happen. So these things happen. So my advice to Francisco from Lumia Chuka was like, yeah, charcoal is cool, but us get very familiar with international contracts and with payment terms.
You need to know what's up, need to know all these things because I told them when you're quoting, you need to know sometimes like 2 times I told them were COB and CFI. So COB is when you quote goods costs, is it cost on board? So it's been a long time so I can't really remember. We've exited this business long, long, long, long time ago. So COB I think is cost on board and that means the quote you're quoting the quote for getting the charcoal and everything on the on the ship.
Then CFI is cost freight and insurance. So freight is freight is just transport fare. When you put something on the ship, freight is the transport fare basically. So if you're quoting CFI, that means that you're quoting you're going to pay for the transport fare of the charcoal. Then insurance, you're going to pay for the cost of insuring it because like I said, bad things happen sometimes, like with this, our loyal customer, we send it the overloaded half and then the next thing the pot get blown, gets blown up where there was accidental, whether I was terrorist, you know, shark, the thing happened.
So yeah, you need to know all these things. Yeah, you need to know all these things. Then also told them about the registration requirements that are needed, that you need to register with your banks, you need to fill and back then I think was form M1 from M1 with your banks. I think that one was something Forex related anyway, because a lot of these people that you're doing business with, they're going to be sending you hard currency, they're going to be sending you dollars.
So you need to be licensed to receive Forex payment. So I think was from M1, but I can't remember. That was a long time ago. But you know, when you go to your bank, your banking people will put you through. Then you register with the, I think his Ministry of trade, but I really can't remember which ministry because since I'm based in Abuja, I'm the one that used to go to the ministry. But for those of you who are based in Abuja, if you know the VIO office in Mabushi, when you get to that main junction, when you turn left, you're going to VIO office.
That's where was the vehicle inspection. Something, something, those are the people that like to harass us. You know, where's your license? Where's your this, Where's your dad? And they're looking for bribes, the idiots. So if you turn left, you're going to Vio. So if you turn right now, all those buildings on your right, you see three of them, the one in the middle, the three of them are federal ministry. So the one in the middle,
whether the Ministry of trade or Ministry of Commerce or ministry of whatever that is the building that you're going to be going to. Sorry, I can't remember all the details. It's been such a long time. Then on the whole thing of whether charcoal is contraband, now, I told them, now look, it's not as if charcoal is contraband. It's just that when it comes to Nigeria, there's always policy inconsistency. Policy inconsistency just means today the government says one thing, tomorrow the government says another thing.
So today they will say yes, tomorrow they will change their mind. And the reason why there's been government inconsistencies around charcoal is because certain nations have concerns around deforestation and climate change. So in Nigeria, people are worried about deforestation. We're worried about the Sahara Desert encroaching into the northern part of the country. So sometimes the government is like, the taxes on charcoal,
money is good. So you guys go ahead. And then they tax all of you and you pay your so. Excuse me, You pay your levies. And then after a while, you know, they start thinking about deforestation, climate change, no moratorium where all of you stop. No more cutting down trees because that is how charcoal is made. You go and you cut certain kinds of trees, like in amongst the Yoruba people, for instance, in Ellering, one of the trees we used to cut was, I think it's called, I remember correctly,
AYNI think it's I is it? I can't remember. So you go and cut this, I mean tree and then you chop it up into bricks and then you burn it. Basically that's how truckhole is made. You take a tree, you chop it down, you burn it, but not burning to a crisp as you burn it small, get some of the moisture out enough that it is nice and dry. So you can use that to power your, you know, if you use kerosene stove, you know, you can use that for a kerosene stone or whatever.
The bottom line is to make charcoal, you have to kill trees as basic. So sometimes Nigerian government is like, go ahead, all of you keep trading, pay us our taxes and then it's OK. No, you will slow down, slow down. We need to think about deforestation and then climate change. So it's not illegal. But I told them that there are people who consult specifically around these sorts of things. So check around on the Internet and look for people who are specialists in exports and especially charcoal.
They will let you know what's up, what the current state of government policy is. So that's it. That's the reason why sometimes charcoal business is moving in Niger and then sometimes nobody is touching it. It's because of policy inconsistency 1. Then they also changed the tariffs a lot. So today the tariff can be X and then when you're talking to somebody in China, you factor in everything and you factor in X and then you guys agreed to transfer money.
By the time you now get to ministry of Trade, you now find out that you're supposed to pay the tax, that the levy they're supposed to pay has already gone up like one time that they were supposed to be paying for inspection. I said, OK, no problem. I went there and I, you know, like the like the dongs, like the idea that I was, I was actually trying to find the people that are going to do the inspection. And then eventually somebody levelled with me and persons like Luke Bros, this inspection,
inspection that they're talking look inspection this like nothing is going to happen. So you know what is what you do? You want to bring XYZ and then if you settle us, this is how we'll run to something. So yeah, it's unfortunate, but you know, this, this rubbish happens. That's the reason why some people decide from the beginning on ethical grounds that they are not going to get involved in some businesses. So there are some NGS who will say, look, I will never do this kind of business because if I do this, I will have to interact with this government agency,
that government agency. And if that happens, somebody who asked me for a bribe and I'm born again Christian, and I do not want to bribe. So anyway, I'm not going to tell you guys how the episode ended. But yeah, not even though those sorts of things happened, the government mandated expect inspections. I went there going up and down between Mabushi and Utako because they also have offices in the Taco. So between Mabusha and Utako,
I'll try to track down like who is the people that are going to do this inspection? Who do we pay to? And once we pay, how do we make sure that you guys get to I was it Alluring or Benin? I can't remember. So how am I going to, you know, just the logistics shack so I could let my brother know that OK, I paid. This is the day that they're coming. This is where they will meet you people. So what was that? Any bottom line?
Sha consult a specialist. So for those of you who are thinking about charcoal, yes, it's viable. You can make money or talk to a specialist. And because there's lots of stuff that you need to learn around international payments and then around the current state of the government policy, because it will really suck for you to talk to somebody in China or in Dubai. You guys agree, they transferred to 40%. You go into the Bush, you're about to start and then task force will now show up and say,
who are you? Who are you? You can't call this tree, you can't call that tree, what are you doing, blah, blah, blah. So that would really, that would really suck. And yeah, I think that's it. I think that's it. So for those who are interested in these kinds of business, just know that when you start talking about exports, it's a different ball game altogether. There's lots of stuff you need to learn. It's a little bit much more sophisticated and then the amount of money that you're dealing with goes up.
And I'm speaking from personal experience. When you start off business and you're dealing in thousands and 10s of thousands and hundreds of thousands, you know, you get comfortable with a certain amount. When the money starts entering million, million, million, you be like, hey, wahala, you know. So it takes some getting used to. And because of this, I advise that perhaps if you're getting involved in the charcoal industry, maybe you might consider local trade because for instance, there are communities where you make this charcoal in the communities around Nassara,
the water towns, and then the charcoal is transported from Nassara into Abuja. And then Abuja people, there are certain markets where Abuja people go and get their charcoal, like what's this place? Durumi Durumi, close to Living Faith Church, Living Faith Church and Catholic Secretariat. I noticed that there's a, a charcoal market there, like a moderate charcoal market. So stuff comes in from NASA, it goes to Durumi and then people go and buy from there.
And then they supply to all these small, small places, you know, maybe like the Amala joints in Guarempa and you know, all those places where people cook with charcoal. So it's something to consider. It must if you, if you already get involved in that business, it doesn't have to be export, especially if you're afraid of this whole 40% deposit and then letter of credit, you can do local. So if you're based in NASA, you can do local, do your charcoal,
send it to a buyer in Abuja, the person pays you want represent upfront and then hopefully you make some profit on top of it. So that's it pretty much, Yeah. I think that's it. On that particular radio show, by the time we're done, my brother called me because he listened to the show and he said that I should also warn people that charcoal business is cut throat, is very cut throat. Everybody is trying to scam you. You know, you're dealing with government officials.
They want their own cut. When you go to the Bush, the farmers are supposed to harvest the trees. You know, the, you know, you, you pay them. But if you are not there to supervise them direct which tree are they cutting? The one called rubbish for you. The processing part, the bonding of the charcoal and the burying and the everything because it's supposed to be a certain moisture content. If you're not there to supervise them, they will do rubbish for you.
So this is the kind of business that unfortunately you have to be out there in the Bush with them. When they're cutting the tree, you are there. When they're hacking the tree, you are there. When they are processing it, you are there. The lorry people, all right. That is also where there's also another problem. You also need to be there. The lorry driver who's going to drive the thing to port. Did the lorry driver come on time?
Because that place, those are places where you can miss money. And then some silly lorry drivers will show up and they will say that fuel have finished or that the battery is dead. But because you're not there, nobody will call you. Everybody will just sit down and be waiting. Nobody will use the initiative on call. So it's it's a cultural business. And this charcoal business is not business you can do from the comfort of your house.
You can't stay in your house and use your phone and be remote controlling people. You have to be in the Bush or you need somebody in the Bush with them. So I was in the city, my brother was in the Bush, and that's how we're making it work. So yeah, that's also another warning. If you must do charcoal or this kind of business, you cannot remote control anybody. Get yourself a nice car that is robust, that will not be breaking down anyhow, and just know that you are going to drive to the Bush, or rather you drive to the town because there's some places that your car cannot enter.
So what happens? You drive a neighbor park and then you take Okada and then you go into the Bush. So just know that this is that kind of business. So if you don't like mosquitoes, if you don't like scorpions, if you don't like caterpillars, if you don't like sleeping in the car, if you don't like like when you want to poop, there's no comfortable toilet. You have to go and look for a boot somewhere and you have to do short put.
If you don't like that kind of life, then maybe Jack oil export is not for you. So let me stop here after calls, 3 contributions for today. So that's it. Thank you very much for your time and attention. If you'd love to connect with me for a strategy session for a business audit or you have some questions you'd like me to answer, the number to call me on or to WhatsApp me on is 0806466 2140. The country code is +234. For those of you who are not Nigerian, then also connect with me on LinkedIn, my name is Tavi Shima Aede.
I also have a YouTube channel the same name Tavi Shima Aede. Thanks for the time and attention. I'll catch you guys at the next episode.