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Hello and welcome to the show. Apologies before we begin because today is going to be a very noisy episode. This is definitely one of those art and about recordings and it's because I'm currently here first thing on a Monday morning. I'm outside a car wash, having the car hose down completely washed because to be honest, I've gotten lazier with time. And, you know, whenever the kids just mess up the car for me, it's easier to just take it to the car wash and have them just clean out everything.
And that's because over the weekend, my wife wanted to be nice, so she got snacks for the kids while we're out, you know, meat pies, doughnuts, drinks. And they totally messed up the back of the car. So yeah, I just looked at it. I'm like, man, there's no way I'm doing that myself. So yeah. So I'm at the car wash. So expect to hear the birds, people driving by, people gossiping. I'm chilling at him. My mom puts beside the car wash,
but since it's early in the morning, the patrons haven't come in. But just in case you hear people come in and they start arguing about, you know, the price of fuel and Timbu's government and blah, blah, blah. You know, it's because I'm at the car wash chilling at the Mama pud just beside. So today the question that I'm going to tackle is one that I haven't treated before on the show. And I'm sure it's not one that you guys have heard before.
So let's just head straight into it. And the question is, should I be implementing a challenger sales approach? Now, of course, you know, this is going to be contextual depending on who it is that is asking the question. Of course, it also assumes that the person knows the different kinds of sales approaches that are out there. And don't worry, I have another podcast episode that is lined out for you guys on that. Now it is a little bit more exhaustive.
So I had to make a couple of notes about different sales frameworks. The challenger sales is part of them just to expose you guys to the breadth of ideas that are out there so that when you're trying to get a sales framework that works for your business, you, you know, you have an idea of where to look and what to explore. So that's going to be the topic of future episode, but for now I'm just going to try and answer the question the best way that I
can. Should you be implementing a challenger sales approach? So usually the answer is that I give our contextual on the podcast, but this is 1 answer that I'm going to give a resounding yes to. So I'll say yes, you should be implementing a challenger sales approach. It doesn't apply to all sales scenarios, but there's part of the spirit or part of the ethos that we can take and apply to our business. And part of it is that we should not be scared of our clients.
We should realize that we are the ones who are the professionals. Don't be scared of potential customers and clients because there's this thing where, you know, we try to defer to our clients and you know, the customer is king and the client is king and blah, blah, blah, and then all of that. And so because of that, there are times when in our professional opinion, we want to say one thing, but we say, well, the customer said they want this and you know, it's their money.
So it was their own, it was my own. And you just go ahead and give it to them. But no, don't be scared of the client because you are the professional. And I hope you guys can see why this is the reason why I say that we should just pretend that we're medical doctors, no matter what business it is that we're involved in, that that should be the way we should conduct ourselves and approach our businesses and do ourselves.
Because there's no way a medical doctor will say and go ahead, it's your life, it's your money, go ahead and do it. A medical doctor will tell you that, look, guy, I am telling you that if you take this drug because of your underlying heart condition or something, something, something, you will die. A doctor will come straight out and tell you that don't take this drug. And if you say doctor, I know what it is. My mother has said, my uncle has said to your doctor, I'll say,
well, me, I've told you, but Misha, I will not prescribe this drug for you. And the doctor will prescribe it because they're sticking to their own guns. They're sticking to their professional opinion. And so we also should have that level of gumption when we're dealing with our customers because we are the professionals. We are the one who knows yourself. We're the one who know that if you decide on doing this and you go forward that this is where y'all will gas or this is where you will jam something.
So don't be scared. You should be willing to challenge your clients because you are the professional. Now for the challenger approach, it's not just about challenging your your potential customers or your clients any which way you know. It's about situations where you have valuable insights or knowledge when they're about to make a wrong idea, when they're about to make a mistake or where there are things that they have not considered.
And this thing happens all the time, whether you're waiting for photographer, whether you sell solar panels, whether you're a medical doctor, whether you're an engineer or whether you're an architect. Because like let's say architect, engineer, for instance, you know, your client might say, I want this, I want this, I want that, I want that. You're the one who has the professional. How to say, look, bro, Madam, if we pursue, if we continue like this, you know, because of structural load here, here, here and here, this is the kind of design that is going to collapse, you know, in five years, in 10 years or in whatever.
So yes, give them valuable insights or knowledge when they're about to make a mistake. Now I'm going to give a warning because some of you that might have heard challenge or sale and then you're going and challenging people up and down. You know, every single client you're talking to, you want to show that you know what's up and you know, you're just talking anyhow, Lord need over them. And so there's a warning that I
want to give. There's a caveat that I want to give. If you just take this challenger approach and you're just challenging people anyhow, anyhow, people might think you're rude, people might think you're insensitive, and people might think you're proud, especially if you're a young man like me, you know, people be like these guys have, you know, ITKI too, know rude doesn't respect the elders, you know, blah, blah, blah, all that kind of stuff.
So for this to work, for the challenger sales to work, a couple of things must be in place #1 you must have established a certain level of credibility with the customer so they understand that you know what's up. So it's like with the doctor. The doctor might be younger than you, but you know that this guy or this girl went to school seven years. After the seven years, they did two years residency. After two years residency, they did one year specialization.
After one year specialization, the person went and did master's and then came back. So that's, you know, I don't know, 1314 years of schooling. And so, you know, there's credibility here. So you best believe and you best listen to what this young man or this young girl is saying. Well, by the way, if you don't believe it, that's the reason why people seek for a second opinion from another doctor. They don't just say I don't believe I'll do my own.
They will say something is not adding up and then they go and seek a second well qualified opinion. So you must have established credibility. If you want to know how to do that. There are lots of podcast episodes. We have already addressed this topic. So when you're done listening to this episode, go over to YouTube, because all my episodes over 9 + 930 episodes are there on YouTube. Just put in Tavishima in the search function and then put credibility.
Yeah. And then all the episodes we have dealt with, all these sorts of issues will come up. Apart from credibility, also put trust in YouTube. So it's Tavishima, credibility search. A bunch of episodes will come up, then also do Tavishima and then do trust and a bunch of episodes will come up. And then listen with a pen and paper, jot down a couple of things, not too many. I'm not saying summarize the episode. I'm just saying write down one or two things that you can apply and then tomorrow start applying.
So if you're 1 of in, you're one of these industries where certification is a big thing. Like if you're a member of the Korean, I mean that's the council of is it registered something engineering, whatever in Nigeria. So if you remember all these type of societies and certification is a big thing, then part of the way establishing credibility might be to have all your certification up on the wall behind your desk. So the when customers come and sit down, they see they're like,
oh, OK, this girl is legit architecture. Abu after Abu did mechanical engineering, Massachusetts Institute of Technology after Massachusetts in this institute, she's also a member council of Engineering, Something, something Nigeria, blah, blah, blah. Certificates are on the wall. So as you're talking to them, they look, they see, they're like this girl, she's a bomb, as in she knows her stuff. So yeah, lots of ideas there about how you can show your credibility.
Then you also must have established commonality because remember, we're trying not to come off as rude. We don't want people to say this young boy disrespectful. This girl does not know her elders. So, you know, establish some commonality, show that you're both human. You know this is where you talk up all these whole things like you notice that they went to AB us area Yousef, you went to AB users. Oh my, I also went to AB us area blah blah, but of course it's not during your time.
Oh, you went in 1970 something Ah me and my baby. I went in 2001 blah blah. He will have that small talk about professor this is he still there? What of Dean? So so so so are they still there? You know all those things. So you play up all the commonalities between you guys. You know the personal touch and stuff like that. Then also the conversations you guys are having should be listening and open conversation. So you're asking them open conversation questions and then you are listening.
And as you see that you are listening because it really all about it, like it's kind of off putting. When you're talking to an idiot, the idiot is not even listening. You're trying to say something and you can't see that this idiot is not even listening. So make sure that you're not in that situation where you are the idiot. So ask the questions and then be listening. So then when you say, oh, mommy, daddy, Sir, ma or young man or whoever you're talking to, in my own professional opinion, even though you want this, I think this is how we should best go about it.
They'll be able to listen and take it on board because you've established credibility. You're the professional, you've established commonality. So you're a human being, you have sense. And then you listen to what it is that they're saying. And by your response, you'll see that you've been able to take account of most of the things that they are scared about or most of the things that they are trying to achieve with their plan.
So this is how we avoid being rude or coming across us insensitive or proud when we're trying to implement a Challenger sales approach. So a key feature of this approach is like I've said, we're challenging customer assumptions because everybody comes with assumptions. There was a time when in Lagos, I was not feeling pretty well. The family member gave me Dogon Yarrow. She said that Dogon Yarrow cures malaria. So I took the Dogon Yarrow because, well, you know, you trust friends and families like that.
And then plus she was an older woman, so I thought that she knows what she's doing. So I was taking the Dogon Yarrow now and then before I knew it, I ended up in hospital. I was, I was admitted. I told the doctor like, but Dogon Hero cures malaria and the doctor was like, no, Dogon Yarrow, yes, it has medicinal properties, but it is not an anti malarial. It is a positive. And I was like, OK, it made a lot of sense because as I was taking the Dogon arrow, I was crapping like crazy.
And the woman that gave me the Dogon arrow, she said that it now, yeah, that's the side effect. So it turns out that's not the side effect of the herb. That is actually the main point of the herb. You take it so that you can flush out your system, you know, So, Oh, by the way, I can't remember it was even Dogon Arrow because this was a very long time ago. I was a teenager back then, so I can't remember. Anyway, so just in case I'm using the wrong name, I'm talking about something else.
You know, for those of you who are household listeners, you know, forgive me, This is just me displaying my ignorance. But what I'm trying to say is just that people are coming with all kinds of ignorance, all kinds of assumptions when they come to you, not just medical doctors, you know, So if you do solar or you do wedding photography or something, people are coming with all kinds of assumptions about what is right,
what works. And you should be able to challenge those assumptions and you should be able to encourage them to take a new perspective. So that's a key feature of this approach. Another feature of this approach is that it is customer centric. So you gasp, you have to be listening to people. You have to be listening to people. It's customer centric. If you're sitting down high almighty on your chair, I'm the professional.
The professional, I know everything. They will not listen to you even if what you're saying is correct. And they will go to somebody else and the other person might tell them the same thing. But The thing is they won't pay you, They'll pay the other person. You'd be wondering why the others people stupid, You know, it's not that they're stupid. Your approach sucks. So yeah, we should be challenger, but customer centric approach.
And because it's customer centric, that means we should be doing our best to understand the customer's needs. That is the main thing, the driving thing. So does this apply to all industries? Does this apply to all contexts? Because on top of the episode I said should you be using the challenger sales approach? And my answer is yes, but I admit it doesn't apply everywhere. Mostly it applies where people are dealing with complex sales scenarios and complex challenges.
So like tech or healthcare now it is complex. So Healthcare is obviously complex because OK, now I've already spoken enough about doctors, so let me move to someplace in other people in the healthcare space, OK? Like people who sell, what do you call like this software that takes track, keeps track of drugs, drugs that you have dispensed in the hospital, drugs that you have left on the shelf, you know, like in is it inventory management something something so like this intern inventory management software,
blah, blah, blah, HR payroll. So those are complex things. Now, in this case, my husband is you are the professional when it comes to inventory management. So you're the one that when you're talking to the hospital staff, you tell them like, look, I understand you've been doing it this way. Well, if you continue like this, you people will jam lorry later on. And this is the problem that will happen and potentially you could be losing XYZ amount of naira.
Now, professionally speaking, today in 2024, this is how we do it in the modern era, you should be doing it like this, like this, like this. And this is how our software can help you implement this and make your hospital run smoother. So you should be able to do that. So tech space, BS, healthcare, finance, because some of these things are real, real complex solutions. Like one of my wife's former OGA, she left the department and she moved on to McLaren House.
So I've been doing some research and well not really research but once in a while I check up on them and it looks like a very it sounds like a simple thing. I want to transfer money to somebody in Maiduguri and in Abuja any time to bank or at do I pick up my app at eight O 4 to do the transfer trying to make sure that the money reflects in these guys account immediately. It sounds simple, but apparently it's a very complex thing.
You know, there are lots of, and I put it and EU tech people, you understand, there's lots of techie stuff that runs in the background for us. It sounds simple. I pick up my phone, I do everything. I hit send, the other person says, hey Bros, I received the payment. Thanks. But yeah, it's technical. So what was I so finance? Yeah, that's complex. Recently I was doing a coaching call with the employees or one of my clients and they're in the solar space and it's something that they had to apply as well because the sales engineer was on site and the customer wanted one particular kind of cable.
But from the sales engineer's point, engineer's point of view, and rightly so, the cable would introduce redundancies as in the capacity you're asking for is of your machine is so, so, so and so. But you want a cable that is XYZ and blah, blah, blah, just because it looks good. So it turns out that the reason why the guy wanted the cable was because his his guy, his friend did the same thing and had a similar kind of cable on the installation, but his friend did like a much bigger installation.
You know, I don't understand all the technical details, but basically his friend did something that was really big, you know, plenty of installation, plenty of capacity, plenty of power, plenty of every, every. And so because of that, they needed a special kind of thick cable. And of course, the special thick cable looks nice, looks correct. And then the other guy, when they came to do his own, the cables now look small.
And of course, you know, Nigerians like how we can be like, like this my guy, like we are the same level, we're the same mates. We're mates now. It's not as if the guy has more money than me. So for him, you were using all this thick, thick cable, My own, the cable is now small. And then the thing became an issue as per why the other guy, the cable were thick and looks, I don't know, looks more impressive and therefore his own, the cables look small.
So, yeah, there are those situations in these kind of industries where you have to enter into challenger mode to say, boss, you know, I feel you, I understand this. So that cables look nice. But you know, Albany is not about what looks nice and everything that look is just about capacity, that look, we can apply this cable. But The thing is, the whole thing will be redundant in your own case. And then maybe you can even give technical reasons why it's not such a good idea to go ahead with it anyway.
Which brings us to the next question, what do we do when the customer refuses to listen? Because there are times when you give your professional opinion that look, let's go this way and customer will say, no, it's my money, I've told you what I want, shut up and give me what I want. Now in the ethical and in the healthcare space, there are some ethical concerns. So that's the reason why doctors will tell you that look me, I've told you my own me, I will not prescribe this thing.
And if you're unhappy, you get up, you leave and you go and see if you can, how you can buy it in the black market or want me to pharmacy and, you know, secure it however you want to. I'm not saying we should do drug abuse. I'm not saying that for medical doctors and people in the healthcare space, they are ethical concerns. So if you are in that kind of space where the ethical concerns, when you've reached the limit of an ethical concern,
stand up and say my, my hand, no deal. As in just free yourself immediately. Because if you're the architect or the engineer, when the house collapses though, you know it is you that will come and start to look for the guy who owned the building. They'll start looking for you as well and will not be police matter, especially if two or three people happen to die inside the building. So when you reach that stage, just stand up and just remove your hand, wash your hand and say, OK, like I've told you what needs to be done.
I would love to do this business with you this morning. Looks sweet. But I got my professional opinion. This thing cannot end well. And you show the person to the door, Remove yourself. If the person wants to go and implicate another person, let them go to jail together. But for you, you reach the hard stop of ethical issues, then remove yourself. Then for other industries where ethical issues have not kind of entered, like in the solar example that I gave, you know,
if you use the thicker cable or use the normal cable, first, I'm not professional first of all, so you know, I don't know what's up. So it's those of you who are in the business that you know what needs to be done. So I don't know, maybe it's possible to use the bigger cable, but then it's not something that will have any negative blowback. So I don't know. I honestly don't know. Maybe your professional opinion, you say look, whoa, I'm tired of arguing with this guy.
He says he's willing to pay for it and no problem, I'll collect the money. I'll give him what he wants. It's not as if anybody would die or the building will burn down. So I'll leave that up to you guys to judge on the case by case basis. Of course, assuming that you are the professional. I don't know what to do in that situation. In the wedding space, I came across one of those situations where the person wanted the thing to be framed.
I wanted it to be framed in glass and I had and also educating the person I look, if you frame this thing in glass, I mean, of course it will look nice, it will look sweet. After all, that's how our parents used to do it. But that there's a reason why in this kind of climate we stop doing glass because the temperature changes. This humidity, you know, stuff like that. So if you frame this thing in glass, after a couple of years,
there'll be condensation on the outside or on the inside. When there's condensation, that's what people call sweat. The picture will start to sweat. Everything sweats. The picture will start to degrade. And was the whole point of paying all this money to get to create this beautiful thing. And at the end of the day, the picture will sweat and the picture will not start to degrade and everything degrades. You don't have the original soft copy.
Let's say you buzz me, I don't have the soft copy or by then I have Jaguar. You know what are you going to do? How you print a new one? So I educated, I educated, I educated. The person said no, it must be glass. No, it must be glass. So I was like, well, anyway, I've I've said my own money was OK, so I took the money by no situations. Make sure you cover your bum bum cover your ass, give them firm warnings. Make sure you have spelt it out.
If you can do it in writing, no problem, like on the invoice, if you're a wedding photographer, you know reflected there that this is what the person has paid for and you know, you're giving your own professional opinion that social options would have been better. You know, things like that. Just cover your bum bum so that in the future when they come and start shouting now see this nice picture, say as you think you know, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, you can say, but OK, I was telling you, you know, Madam was even there. I was telling you that in a jar. There's a reason why we don't use glass on pictures again, because the thing will sweat when the thing sweats, the thing will start breaking down and the thing will get destroyed. I told you that if I see the invoice, see where I wrote it inside here, you can't remember. Although to be honest, in situations like that where people come back and they're quarreling and they have selective amnesia is very little consolation to say that a guy I
told you so or Madam, I told you so. So what to do when they don't listen? I'll leave that up to you or please, for those of you where the ethical considerations once you reach the door of an ethical thing, just stand up and say I'm not doing it again on, you know, unless you run into trouble. It's like when the Michael Jackson thing may. So rest in peace. You know, the client says I want this drug, give me this drug.
If you're the doctor, I know that. Look, young man, if I give you this drug, you might die. There's a chance if you go ahead, you give the person the drug when the person dies, of course they will come for you. You can now turn around and see and what the clients say. I should give them the drug, right. So ethical issues stand up, walk away. Ethical issues have not reached there. It's not as if anything bad is going to happen like in the in the the frame case.
I don't know if you want to collect the money collect. Just make sure you cover your bum bum so that tomorrow you can say I did what was right. But summary, we should all have this challenger mindset. We should be ready to educate our customers and tell them the things that they are not considering because we are the professionals. The whole point of doing this challenger thing is not just a challenge for challengers sake,
it is to make sure that everything turns out well. If you listen to the customer, you take everything on board, you give them the right advice, at the end of the day, they will be happy. This guy knows what's up, this babe knows what's up. You'll be able to get repeat business from them. You will be able to get referrals from them. So that is the whole point of doing any of these things, whether it's challenger sale or any other framework that we're going to discuss in the future.
That's the whole point. Repeat business referrals. Remember that repeat business referrals, repeat business referrals because a lot of us sometimes we focus only on the money that we're collecting today. We think 0500 K, that's good money. Limpu 500K in my account. It's not just about the 500 K you're collecting now. It's about whether you can collect 500K from person now and the person feels happy enough that they come back next time.
I spent 250 with you. And then maybe next year they spend 800. And then maybe the year after that they say, oh, by the way, this is my best friend in the office. This is the project, this is whatever who came up like this, who came up like that. So that's the whole point. So thank you very much guys for listening to the show. Let me go and see whether my car is done so I can head back home. And please connect with me on WhatsApp for questions, tips,
insights. The phone number is 0806466 2140. The country code is +234. If you're not Nigerian and then connect with me on LinkedIn, the name is Tava Shima Ayedi. You can confirm that from the link where currently listening to this episode. So if you're on YouTube, bottom left above the title you see my name. Highlight it, copy it, paste it in LinkedIn. My handsome face will come up well, I'm not smiling, but still handsome dude.
So my husband face will come up and then they can connect with me there and any other questions or conversations that we need to carry on. We'll take you from there. And don't worry, it takes a while, but last last 24 hours. I'll be I'll respond to your messages. So thanks for your time and attention. I'll catch you guys in the next episode.