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Hello and welcome to the show. Today's episode is going to be a noisy 1 because I'm not an audio booth. In fact, I listened to the last episode and I could hear my children making noise in the background. So I just want to play with you guys. I beg no Vex. It's just one of these things. If I wait until you know, I set up the booth or the half is empty, then I'm not going to be able to make these episodes consistently.
So I beg you guys, just manage for now. Eventually the kids will grow up. My son should be in secondary school soon. You know, things will change and then the quality of the podcast should improve. However, I am still dedicated to giving you guys the best. How will I put it? Even if the production quality on this episode is not on the podcast episode is not going to be top notch. I always make sure that I try to address questions that are central and pivotal to your business journey.
So even though you might hear one or two chickens in the background, you know when I'm out and about in town or if I'm at home, you know, you hear my kid, my kids scribbling in the background. I'm always going to make sure that I try to deliver to you guys the most actionable and most practicable. I'll be practicable. I'll be practical, most practical steps needed to diagnose your problems and move your business forward.
So just begging, especially for those of you who are audiophiles and who like nice and clean audio. Please just manage with me for now. So let's see, yes. So today we're going to be continuing exploring themes from the book Sell Like a Spy, the Art of Persuasion from the world of espionage. And it's written by Jeremy Hurowitz in August 2024. Now, this is your first time I've listened to the podcast. The reason why we're listening to this, why we're exploring themes in this book is because the author is a journalist.
Jeremy, our guy. Jeremy, what he's saying is that people who are in the world of international espionage and diplomacy, you know, diplomats, spies, Secret Service people, you know, these sorts of things that they need certain skills to be able to do their job effectively. And some of those skills are things that we also need in the business world as well. So this is your first time of listening to the show. After you're done listening to this episode, just skip a couple of episodes back.
It won't pass like one week. So just skip back like one week. You start from the beginning, you get caught up to speed. Really interesting stuff. But if you listen to yesterday's episode, remember that I said it is best if you read this book for yourself. And I spoke about how you guys might be able to find copies of the book because what I'm doing is not a book review. So I'm now going through a chapter by chapter, word by word.
I tell you exactly what our guy Jeremy has said. I'm just exploring key themes that he raises. And then I now look at things from a sales and business development perspective. So that. Yeah, so that we can. I'll put it, just rub mine sha and move ahead and put it that way. So today we're going to be looking at chapter 4, which is titled the negotiation game. Now, OK, No, no, no, Chapter 4 is the next chapter because today we did next chapter 3.
So Chapter 4 is the negotiation game, but I am going to completely ignore Chapter 4. And the reason why is because negotiation is not my specialty. I talk about negotiation from time to time, but I always keep giving you guys much more credible resources because the little I know about negotiation is just the kind of negotiations that sales people do, which is not hardcore, which is not high stakes. So I'm going to ignore negotiation when it comes to negotiation podcasts.
There are lots of negotiations podcasts and websites and things like that out there. In fact, Harvard, Harvard University still releases free material on negotiation all the time. So all you have to do is to check Harvard's, Harvard's website. I don't know if they have a podcast on that. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find a Nigerian podcast that is dedicated exclusively to negotiation. So just, you know, try a look,
also check, check how what I hear that their their stuff is their stuff is good then. OK. One thing I want to point out though, is that if you listen to yesterday's episode on elicitation or previous episodes that I've made on qualification and discovery, if this is your first time listening to the podcast, don't worry. Don't fret after you don't listen to this episode, listen to the one that came immediately prior. That's why we talked about elicitation.
Then when you're done, you can use the search function within Spotify or within YouTube. Just if it's YouTube, type my name, Tavishima, and then type qualification or type discovery or type conversation. And then you'll see all the episodes I've made where I deal with these sorts of things. How do you engage in conversations with potential customers and clients? How do you tease out valuable information that will help you be effective at the job and also to be able to deliver an accurate and a convincing proposal?
So where was I? The point I was trying to say was basically, if you listen to yesterday's episode on elicitation, elicitation is going to give you all the information that you need to negotiate effectively. Because remember that elicitation was about getting people to talk freely, get people to talk casually, get people to talk calmly, to be cool, to be relaxed so that you guys are just vibing one-on-one. Now you catch somebody in our mindset, of course they're going to be able to say things that you can use in an effective negotiation.
So even though we're not going to look at negotiation Chapter 4 today, just know that stuff we said yesterday from Chapter 3 also applies. Now before we continue and move on to Chapter 5, I'd like to give the shout outs again. The shout outs are really, really piling up because it's like more and more people are discovering the show. So I'm really glad. The problem is, is that now I have lots of shout outs to get to, especially those of you who actually do send messages.
So let's head straight into it. So today's first shout out is to Iifua Timothy over pronounce your name correctly. He is a student in Uniben. That's another home of cultists, Uniben and uniports. I'm not saying that I 4 as a cultist. I'm just saying that this is one of those schools where cultism is rampant. You don't know a strong man. Don't go to uni Ben or else. So at least we know that I 4 Timothy is a very strong man because he can survive in uni Ben if you're not strong.
So he is a student of medicine and he's also a published author. The name of his book is Physics Demystified. So, Timothy, thank you very much for listening to the show. He reached out to me on LinkedIn. Now, the next set of people I'm going to call, I'll call them in quick succession, are people who have listened to the podcast on Spotify and who have reached out to me on Spotify. There's somebody who I'm going to call Muya, because I'm not sure if his name is Muya or her name.
I only know one female Muya, and that's because the person's handle is MUR 333 WA under score. I mean, you guys really pick the wildest names honestly. So let me just say it's Muya. Muya says the podcast is relatable and so good. So thank you very much for the kind words. Then there's a KTS who compared the podcast to how to win friends and influence people. Thank you very much for the high praise. I really would love to be in that kind of company.
I mean, for people to listen to my podcast and say that it's a classic, like one of the greats. Then also shout out to Miss Oma Aguchuku. At this point she's come commenting like almost every week now. So Miss Oma is pretty much family. Oh, by the way, Miss Oma as well. Listening to this episode, I finally came across someone who has your name and in in all places was when I was at home in Makudi in for the Christmas rack.
I was really, really shocked to hear this as a man called her daughter and said I miss Oma. I was like, oh, OK, I guess there are people who bear that name. But until I met Yusha, you are the first minister I've ever heard of. Then Melki, shout out to you says the podcast is always on point. I appreciate the praise. Then there's also a shout out to say Fulla he that is SAEFULLAH EE. He or she I guess is a babe. From the way that the person is typing.
If it turns out to be a guy, you know, sorry, you type like a woman so safely. He, he or she says the podcast is spontaneous and practical. Thank you very much. Then Brown Naya. I'm assuming that that has to be a girl. Anyway, let me stop before I get in trouble. Anyway, Brown Naya says thanks for the podcast. And yeah, I thanks for the thanks and thank you very much. You guys that keep on listening. If at any point you've reached out to me in the past, you haven't heard any shout outs,
then just, you know, ping me a message, you know, just let me know. Hey boss, you didn't shout me out and I will be more than happy to because I really love you guys. Thank you very much for the support and please keep listening to the show now. OK, Chapter 4 we first you chapter 4. Let's move on to chapter 5. Chapter 5 is the close. That is the one that everybody wants to know, especially when we talk talk about sales,
selling, marketing, everybody wants to know how to close, how to close. I hope if you've been listening to this podcast for any length of time, hope you guys realize that the close is not the main thing. Now we all have to close. But The thing is the reason why the close is hard is because lots of people open the business conversation the wrong way. If you start right, you will close well. If you open right, you will close well.
So I will go into this chapter on the close, but please know the main thing is the opening. Open it well and you will close well. It's like romance trying to toast. If your flow is weak from the beginning, the close is going to be onshore. But if you make sure that you have strong flows from the beginning, then the close at the end is likely to follow. So it is the same thing as relationships. So also win business. If you open it well, you will close well.
So the author recommends a couple of tactics, or should we say philosophies or strategies or whatever for closing. One of them is to use urgency, another one is to summarize benefits, another one is asking for the sale, and then another one is building long term relationships. I have said plenty, plenty plenty about long term relationships in the last 2-3 weeks. So we're just going to ignore that one so that we can keep keep the time.
Let me see. Oh, sorry. Something that I wanted to mention earlier. I haven't made a music recommendation in a very long time, but I had this one today and it was just mad. That's why I said I should let you guys know. I'm listening to the band now called the Becker, the Brecker Brothers BRECKER on Spotify. And if you know, for those of us who you know, Popsy and Momsy used to wear bell bottoms and they had afros and things like that, or maybe a Popsy was a care guy when he was a university.
This is the group that you have to listen to because it is correct. Jazz as in like jazz funk, like some kind of fusion, like really, really impressed. But his horns music. So it's, you know, trombone, saxophone, you know, all those sorts of things. So if you like fella, you should also like this kind of music as well, but it's mostly instrumental stuff. So for those of you who are music heads, I beg go and look for breakout brothers on Spotify.
That's correct, correct music. Nice one, real nice music. All right, so the chapter on the close. So the author recommends what the author recommends, urgency, summarize benefits, ask for the sale, building long term relationships or when if I see that that last one. So let's go straight to definitions. Now what does the clothes mean self? Because when people say clothes, we're not always talking about the same thing because most people, especially in Niger,
when people say close this deal, what they mean is collect the money, collect your money. That's what people mean when they say close the deal. Now that definition of clothes, it's all right, it's OK, it's not bad, but it's not the only definition of closing the deal. Ultimately, when we close the deal, we want to collect our money. So yes, you are correct that if you're quoting 5 M, close means collect that five M But a richer definition of close just means get the person to take the next step.
The reason why this is a better definition of closing is because if you're dealing with a simple sale scenario, the example that I give is buying a goose in the market. You can't close one time. It's a matter of Luke Bros, Are you buying or not? I told you that One Cup of a Gucci is 4-5. Are you going to buy or not? If you're buying, how many cups? If you're not buying, please leave so that somebody else can come out open market.
You see, for simple sales, you can close aggressively and you can do it one time. When it comes to the complex sale, however, trying to collect your money one time is not, is not realistic because you're talking about something that is complex, something that is expensive and that requires some relation building. So back to the wedding photography example, you want somebody see, I'm not in the field again, so I don't know how much it costs.
So let me just say 400 K. That's because back when I was in in the deal, that's how that's how we use the price ratio. You know, if you got a wedding for three, 5400, it was all right. If you got like 800, you are doing good. If you're one of those people that was able to close, you know, like that kind of 1.21.5, you're a superstar. But I don't know how much it costs right now. So during my time, let's say you're charging 400K back then 400K was money was serious money.
You can't just say you're going to roll up on somebody. You're just meeting the person today and then you just collect 400K like that. How? So the way to look at closing when you're talking about complex sales scenarios is it has to be one step, one step, one step. If you meet the person today, you have one agenda. Today they take action, today you have closed, you leave another one for the next day. The example that I always give on the podcast is you meet the person at the bridal show.
If you collect their phone number, you have closed. Then you call the person up, you're trying to arrange a meeting. If they agree for the meeting, you have closed. They now come for the meeting. You wanted them to look at samples. They look at samples. They decide on an album style that they like you have closed. The next step is to send over a proposal. If you send over a proposal and you send over gold package, jubilee package, silver package and if they if you get them to pick one package you have closed, next thing now is to get them to pay depository.
So you now start following them up, sending e-mail, making a phone call because you want them to pay deposit the day that you pay deposit you have closed. So you see how the thing works small, small, small, small. Eventually you'll get to collect all your 400K. But this whole thing of collect my money now it doesn't work when it comes to complex sales scenarios. Unfortunately, most of you listen to this podcast, you are in the complex sales scenario.
That's the reason why I say this whole thing of close closing, meaning collect my money. Well, let's let's calm down. Yes, ultimately you'll collect your 5M complete. All right, now when we hear close, let's just think of taking the next step. So that's the only thing I want to rearrange your minds on listening to this podcast. Now closing is a step by step thing. Look, see, like I even said the same as relationships.
So in business, it's the same thing. You don't just walk up to a chick and say, babe, marry me. It's not like that. You approach her the first time and OK, well, I was not much of A toaster when I was still in the field. So let me not show my lack of creativity. But basically, you don't just roll up on a chick or roll up on a guy and say marry me. In fact, there was one big that me and I was supposed to have done a collaboration, you know,
long time ago and she was giving testimony. She's a Christian giving testimony about how she rolled up on one guy and she said, God told me that you're my husband. Guess what happened? The guy faded fast. I mean, how do you just roll up on somebody and say God told you you're my husband. Of course the guy disappeared now ended up marrying somebody else. So it's the same thing. You don't just roll up on somebody and say God told you you're my husband.
First you roll up on saying, oh, I don't know, how do girls to yourself? You know, I never was toasted. OK, well only one girl toasted me anyway. But any the manner she toasted is not fit for the broadcast. So let me not go there anyway. However it is that you girls toast. You know how you're supposed to toast. You don't just roll up on somebody and say God told you you're my husband. You say that the boy will fade. You say this boy's crazy and it's the same thing.
Sorry, yes, you say the boy said this girl's crazy and it's the same thing the other way around. If you roll up, I say babe, marry me or babe, sleep with me, she's off, she will fade. So it's the same thing in business as in relationships, before you close the deal, everything is small, small, small. One step after another after another. Eventually you'll collect the thing that you're looking for. So, yeah. So some of the things that the author recommended urgency.
Now, when it comes to urgency, how do you define urgency? Now, urgency just means, how would I define urgency? Urgency just means any tactic or any skill, anything that you're trying to do just to make the person to move sharp, sharp, to move quickly. Yeah, let's define urgency, sharp, sharp. So you're trying to get the person to move sharply. Now on this podcast, I have spoke, I talk about this thing a lot and so on to bring it to you guys.
Notice here, there's this thing about manufactured urgency and there's this thing about inherent urgency, manufactured urgency. That is what everybody talks about on the Internet. So if you go and check urgency now on YouTube or LinkedIn or on Instagram, people will be talking about use discount as an urgency, as an urgency trick. So you tell the person that look, blah, blah, blah, blah, because I like you and for a limited time only, we're offering a 20% discount now if you buy today.
So you see you're trying to manufacture urgent manufacture urgency by telling the person that if they move now you will give them 20%, but if they wait till next week then they'll have to pay full price. That is manufacturing urgency. Some people also use quantity to get a sense of urgency that OK, well. You know, if you buy now, you buy it at this price, but instead of buying one, if you buy three, we'll give it to you for the price of whatever, you know, buy, buy 2, get more free and all those kind of things.
That's also another way of getting urgency. If I don't used to work on me back when I was in the UK because I like I like yogurt. There's this yogurt that I like Muler yogurt and I know that they used to do this discount. You know when the stock is also I always wait when the stock is now old, they'll now say buy, buy 2 get one free. That's when I'll buy. In fact, the day I come and they say is 1 LB for three. That's when I want chatter everything and then I'll go home and then I'll just quickly rush everything because you know when the discount had reached that level, you know that The thing is going to expire in like 2
weeks or something, you know and my baby won't even eat my wife now anyway. Then was my girlfriend. If Ioffer her, she would say no, that this thing is quarter to expire. There's not me and you. So yeah, some people do that. Buy one, get one free. Your manufacturing urgency, you're trying to get the person to move shop, shop, buy 2, get one free. People will now rush it. So that's the whole idea. Then let's see what else another taxi people use is this sort of thing of time.
And like this black Black Friday that is raining in Niger now. What does Black Friday even mean? So I have absolutely no idea. But anyway, they do it a lot. You just hear Black Friday, Black Friday, all of a sudden everybody is, is just rushing, you know, because the discount is only going to be available from this day to this day. And after that, the discount will appear. And then if you're trying to buy anything in any shop in Abuja,
it will be impossible to get through. If you want to buy something on Jumia, Jumia is not even loading because all of Nigeria is trying to shop because it's Black Friday, Black Friday, you know, so that's another urgency. So these tactics that I've mentioned here is when you're trying to get people to move shop, shop by saying if you buy them now, you will get one free. There's a discount or the discount is limited between December 25th and December 27th.
So all that is manufactured agency and all of that works. Yes, it works and you should be doing that. I guess to be honest, I'm not a fan of discounts. But anyway, I've spoken about that in older podcast episodes and maybe I'll talk about that in the future. However, I think the best thing for us to do, especially for those of us who are selling services or we're not selling products because you notice if you're a medical doctor, you can't say buy 2 get more free.
You can't do that if somebody's there for a knee replacement. You can't say do 2 knee replacements for the price of one. If there's only one knee that is broken, there's only one knee that is broken. And then I am a business consultant. I can't tell you buy 2, get more free as in buy 2 what exactly? You know, you call up a consultant like me, you're only going to solve the problem that needs to be solved. So there's no buy to get one free.
OK, well, maybe if you have employees, you know, train one employee, get one free. OK, let me write that down in my mind. Try that. So what I recommend is use the urgency that is inherent in the situation. Use the urgency that is already there. Go and listen to the episode that I made yesterday about elicitation and you will see the urgency that I was talking about. Jackie Chan, not real Jackie Chan as in the guy based in Lagos who's into interior decor,
who yesterday was trying to solve his problem. Jackie Chan, when he was talking to the guy, he got a sense of urgency. This person said I must enter into 2025 on a high note. Therefore, this project must be finished in December. In that case, there already is a sense of urgency that you can use to move the deal forward. And that is the reason why for Jackie Chan, yesterday I proposed that he closed the deal the way that I said in the podcast later.
OK Bros forced to enter 2025 on a high note. This job must be completed December 23rd for this job to consider finished December 23rd is a two week job. We must have started this thing by December 9th. For us to start this thing by December 9th, I must have paid for materials a week before. So therefore I must have placed the order by December 2nd for me to place that order. Oh sorry. The reason why I have to place it by December 2nd is because some materials is going to be from Lagos, some materials is going to be from Onager.
If I'm going to place this order by December 2nd, then the money gas be in my account latest by November 25th and Bros right now we are talking it is November 3rd. So how far can you mobilize the 400 K deposit before so, so, so and so. You see in this case how you are using urgency to close, but you are not manufacturing the urgency. It is by having a conversation with the person and eliciting some information, you have discovered that there is already urgency built into the situation and then you take advantage of that to close the sale.
Auger. It must be done by so, so, so, and so. For that to happen, we have to do 123. If we must do 123, then the next step is for us to do 456. Bros, Are you ready? And then you keep quiet and that's how you close. Or Madam, you want this dress to be ready for your sister's wedding. Your sister's wedding is November 15th. To make this kind of peplum dress, we actually need like 9 days to get the thing done. And for the embroidery that you want, it will take like one week for all of that to happen.
Mommy, I'll need to collect the money at least 48 hours before. So Ma, honestly, if you want this dress to be ready, we actually need to decide in like the next three or four days if we're going to do this thing. So Ma, I've already given you the bill. The dress is going to be 40K. Is this something you can do? And then you keep quiet and they leave it out to her. In this case, the urgency is already built in. So my own philosophy, what I'm begging you guys, is all this whole thing of buy one, get one free discount ending this date,
this date, that date. Yeah, sure, do all those tactics, but for to remain profitable over the long term. Because the problem with discounting is this. Now I'm not good at mathematics, but it's something that has been studied mathematically. Depending on your product or your service, Let's say your goal is to make one M at the end of the year and you start discounting 222 or three 3%. You now have to sell more units or get more customers in able to meet that goal.
So the problem with discounting is that discounting actually sets you back. And that's why I'm not a fan. But anyway, and that's that's podcast episode for another day. Sha, when to discount and how? So you're better off trying to look, I'm trying to use the urgency that is already inherent. Maybe I'll talk about that some more in the future episode, but right now just get the distinction that is urgency that you manufacture, buy one, get one free 20% discount.
And then there's the urgency that is already inherent in this thing. What are the critical deadlines? What are we working with? When is this thing supposed to roll out? And once you have all that information, you now use that to probe, to move the sale forward. Now you have that, you have discovered the urgency in the situation, then let's see, let's see, let's see. So asking for the sale now this one is common sense, but lots of people don't do it.
You're not going to get the sale unless you ask. Lots of you don't ask for the sale. And that's the problem. So please let us learn to start asking for the sale. Don't just send the person APDF and say, OK, Sir, I sent you the proposal. Have a good night. I mean, what is that you say, Sir, I sent you the proposal. Good night. Sir, you've not asked for the sale. Sir, I've sent you the proposal. When do you think you'll be ready to make a decision?
Or Sir, I've sent you the proposal. Is everything else in order? OK, so if everything is else is in order, then the next step is you need to pay a deposit of 50% so that we can start the work but ask for the sale. You guys stop this thing of you tell the person the price and then you just keep quiet. If you tell the person the price and keep quiet or send a proposal and keep quiet, the person was here. Thank you very much.
This looks really, really good. Wonderful proposal, really beautiful. Let me talk to my wife, I'll get back to you. That's what you were here. Or let me talk to my husband. I'll get back to you. OK. Oh, I need to close up my pastor. Let me get back to you. Oh, yes. Wonderful proposal. I like it. Like it. Very, very good. Very good. You know what? On Monday, come and drop it with my secretary. I'll get back to you. That is why you're going.
People are ghosting you. Ask for the sale. We'll talk about that some more in some future episodes because we're already at 30 minutes. So yeah, some of the ideas that you're going to get if you read a book on closing or if you read that particular chapter, Chapter 5, I think there's A5 chapter book. I have to look at it and then we'll know what's up. But anyway, by tomorrow I'll let you guys know what is that we're going to be talking about.
But let's bring today's episode to a close. If you'd like to connect with me, the phone number is 08064662140 and the country code is +234. For those of you who are not Nigerian, connect with me on socials. The name to look for is Tavishima IED. I'm on LinkedIn, I'm also on YouTube, same name and you get all the podcast episodes there as well. So thank you very much for your time and attention. Also, thank you very much again to I4 Timothy MO, you are a KTS
Miss Omar family member because they're commenting every week now, Melki Seifullah and Brown Nya. So for the rest of you, I will catch you guys tomorrow. And remember, if I haven't shouted you out yet and we've been in touch, just send me a message and I will do that because I want to acknowledge as many of you possible who make it worth my while and who appreciate the effort that goes into producing the podcast. So you all have a good night and we'll catch you at the next episode.