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Hello and welcome to the show. Before we begin, apologies because it's the call to prayer that's going on in the background. So that's the some of the extra noise that you're going to hear in the background. So yeah, with that out of the way, let's get on with the show. So today, the issue I'd like to tackle, this one is not a question that has been sent in, but it's been something that has been on the top of my mind,
especially I've been since I've been doing client consultations in the last month or so. So it's, excuse me, it's a recurring issue that I think folks haven't quite got a handle on whether you're the business owner or whether you are an employee working for someone else who owns the business. And so the issue that I'd like us to tackle is why we need advancements in sales or advancements in business conversations. So of course we're going to tackle this by looking at it from a multi pronged approach.
I'm going to try and define what an advancement is. I'm going to try and talk about why it's necessary, and then I'm going to use a few case studies to illustrate what I mean. So yeah, so with that, let's get straight down to business. So an advancement, if you're going to define the term advancement well, especially in the classical way, you're going to have to look to the book in I think was written around 1986 or so or 76 or 86, I can't remember.
And that's a SPIN selling by Neil Rackham, SPIN selling, SPIN. Now SPIN, not in the sense of you know, you're trying to deceive someone, but SPIN as an acronym, which means situational questions, problem questions, implication questions and need pay off questions. So for Neil Rackham, who was a consultant, he in that book, he was coming up with a framework of the kinds of conversations you should be having with potential customers that make it easy to seal the deal.
So you should be asking questions about the situation. So basically, who are you? What's going on? What problem are you trying to solve? And then in the back of your mind, you're trying to figure out if your product or service can be that need. Then you're also going to be asking, OK, so that situation then OK. No, the situation is you're trying to figure out the context behind the problem. Then the problem questions of course will be where you're trying to drill in to try and figure out what kind of problems they are trying to solve.
The implication is the implication questions are implication. I need pay off questions. The reason why they're important is because they help you figure out if this is a problem that is worth solving and then you know, whether you have a serious customer that you're dealing with. So let me stop talking theory now and make this a little bit more practical. So let's say you're a fashion designer or you call yourself a fashion designer, but really what you do is you have a shop in ultra modern market in, in Garrity in Abuja, or maybe you have a shop, you know, close to Ikeja, Honda Bridge, you know,
in Lagos. But you got yourself a fashion designer. So no island, no problem. So somebody hits you up from Instagram. I've seen some of your stuff, blah, blah, blah. My sister's wedding is coming up two weeks. I want to sew. What's that thing called? I wanna sew peplum. By the way, I don't know peplums. I have fashion, but peplum is the only name of female garments that I know. OK, well, not the only name I know of peplum.
I know of colour blocking and I know of jumpsuit and stuff like that. But let me just go with peplum because I remember that back when I was a wedding photographer, there was a time when peplum was raining as per, you know, mother of the bride who do peplum, bridesmaids who do peplum, Even the bride gone when she changes her own dress, she might do peplum too. So there was a time that peplum was raining. So you're a fashion designer or you're a tailor or whatever you are.
Somebody hits you up on Instagram how far my sister is getting married. I want peplum. Can you design in two weeks? So the spin framework? SPIN would be asking questions about the situation. Of course, you've already figured out that it's about a wedding. So, for instance, if you're someone who's used to doing much more corporate type stuff from asking questions about the situation, you already know that this is probably not the kind of job you should be taking.
Because you know that if it comes to making office suits for people who work in Zenith Bank or Access Bank, you can do a pretty good job. But if it's all these wedding things, fashionist of you know, not practical, you know, that has to deal with colors and curves and things like that. If it's not a simple thing like a simple structured garment like a suit, then you can't do it. Then you know that this is something you have to weave.
Just leave it or refer to someone else so you can see how the questioning framework works. Situation, the situation, situation questions. Then the problem questions will be where you'll be getting into the nitty gritty. I think like you'll be asking questions, you know, you'll be just chatting with the bride and you'll be trying, sorry, not the bride is the sister of the bride in this case. So yeah, you'll be talking,
you'll be trying to feel out this person like who is she say jumpy, jumpy person. You see an all Humber person or she likes to party or she like to groove, you know, things like that. So that will give you a sense of the kind of peplum designs that you'll be playing with and you know, whether you're going to make allowance in the stomach or allowance in the BOM, BOM or allowance in the shoulders or, you know, whatever.
I'm not a tailor, so I don't know how this works. So those are where the problem questions would be. Then the implication and the need payoff questions basically will be this whole thing of OK, how soon do you need this thing by sister's wedding? And so, so, so and so. So if I get it to you by this and this, would that be OK? And then you also ask, you know, she has a backup like what the other alternatives are. So this is something you need to know.
If the sister has a backup garment that she has made and something something you know, it gives you a sense of whether this is a problem that she needs to solve, like whether she needs to get this peplum thing done. Maybe she has all that peplums that she can wear. Or if you are the plan A and there is no Plan B and it's absolutely it, you need to know as well. So this is an example of how this questioning framework works.
Now, since it it is for complex hill scenarios, not for simple things like fashion design. The examples that I've given are not quite adequate, but at least it gives you a sense of how if you have a simple questioning framework, you can start having productive conversations with potential clients and you can quickly figure out this person that I'm talking to, is this thing a good fit? Should I lean in? I'll be actually just lean back and let this thing go, because if I take this job, you know,
there'll be Walhalla on my hands and we'll be quarrelling back and forth. So that is the backdrop against which this whole thing of advancements came up by Neil Rackham. Oh, by the way, I'm not sure if Neil Rackham is the one who invented the concept. Excuse me, We invented the concept of advancements. But so excuse me, what was I? OK, So I'm not sure if he invented the concept, but The thing is it's something that all salespeople, all professional salespeople people have been doing it for a while is something that you know, in Italy.
So that is the larger framework. Spin selling, if you can find the book PDF are available on the Internet. I'm not saying you should be a pirate, but I'm just saying that these things are available over there. And then there are also some YouTube recordings that people have read the sections of his book. So you can go and find out more about his ideas. And it's a good example about how you need a selling framework, something to guide the conversations that you're having with people.
So that is the book Spin Selling by Neil Rackham, really old, 76 or 8619761986, I can't remember. Definitely a book that is more than 40 years old, but you will get plenty of sales wisdom if you read that book. Now. This is the idea of advancements. This is where advancements comes in. Neorakam was trying to solve this problem, was trying to figure out that boys and girls who are correct salespeople, you know, people who are able to sell very well, What are the things that they do that we should start emulating?
And one of the things he figured out from his research was that people who are correct salespeople, professional salespeople, as in salespeople that we admire, are people who do not leave any interaction without an advancement. Now an advancement just means what is the next clear step? And that next clear step is something that we have to agree to now that you're having a meeting with, now that you're at a meeting or now that you're on the conversation with the potential customer.
So back to the fashion designer example, if the person hits you up on Instagram, how far, how much are you available, sister's wedding, blah, blah, blah. The next step would be when you're rounding up the, when you're rounding up the conversation, you need to know when you're ending that chat. Well, by the way, I prefer that you have a WhatsApp call with this lady and before you design the dress, cause anyway, that's just Misha have a WhatsApp conversation.
Because when you're having a phone conversation, you're going to be able to get non verbal cues. You're going to be able to pick up things about personality, sense of style, you know, ease of doing business. Is this person going to be easy to work with? You know, things like that. So while you're having the WhatsApp conversation, before you end the WhatsApp phone conversation, both of you need to figure out that OK, we finished chatting for 35
minutes. We're friends who are good. It looks like we can blend. It looks like we can jive. You need to end that phone call now figure out what the next step is, because if you don't figure out what the next step is and if you don't propose the next step, what the lady will say is, oh, I really enjoyed your company, blah, blah, blah. Can see that we're going to be work well together. You know, this is dot dot dot dot dot.
Let me think about it. Let me let me call you, let me call you back, that kind of thing. Now when you end with that whole or I like you, I think we're going to do well together, but let me call you back or let me discuss with my husband or give me one week to think about it. That is not the best place to be when you're trying to close the sale. You haven't agreed with what the next step is supposed to be. And it's part of the reason why a whole bunch of you, when you're doing follow up calls,
although I prefer to call them follow through calls when you're doing those sorts of calls is the reason why. Like you're nervous because you didn't agree with the person before what the next step is supposed to be. And that's the reason why you spoke to them last week. You know you should be calling them this week, but you're not really sure. Why am I supposed to be calling this person and then calling the person to say, oh, I just call to greet.
I just say make, I greet you. Or I just wanted to say how far like as you know, I say make, I greet you and how far that those are not valuable phone conversations to have. And most people rather not entertain those sorts of things. Our potential customers are busy and they have other things to do in the day than responding to your phone calls or your WhatsApp messages where you just say hi and then you send and you think that's follow up.
I mean, like, what am I supposed to do with that? Really? If I'm on the other end and I'm the potential customer, you just send me a message. Hi. Yeah, I will high back and I won't say anything or I'll just ignore. And then you, you're now stuck and you'll be thinking that you've been following up with someone. The reason why we're ending up with this cat and mouse game chasing back and forth. Or am I disturbing them?
I'm not disturbing them. Am I too forward? I might do this is because you do not excuse me. It's because you haven't agreed, you haven't gotten an advancement, that is you haven't agreed on the next step. And that next step has to be achieved at this current meeting, this current phone call, this current whatever that you are having with the potential customer. So if you understand what it is that I'm trying to say, then it's obvious that if you don't have what a next clear step is,
then the deal is going to stall for any number of reasons. And you're going to hear someone say, let me get back to you. You're going to hear the lady say, let me think about it. You want to hear the lady say, let me discuss to my husband or you're going to hear the person say, I'll call you when I'm ready. Now for those of you who've been doing business in Nigeria for any length of time, we know that it's the typical things that we hear.
The fact that I'll call you when I'm ready. For the folks that I've been working with right now in the alternative energy space, there is one salesperson in particular who that's where the conversation hangs. The person will say, I'll call you when I'm ready. And unfortunately, the salesperson thinks that that is a good advancement. I'll call you when I'm ready is no advancement. At the very least, the person says, I'll call you when I'm ready.
Anyway, let me move on from that. We'll we'll let's move to the case studies and then we'll see how we're going to solve that kind of problem. But you know what, let me just preempt it. So if somebody says I'll call you when I'm ready, you know, at the very least you say, oh, sure, no problem. Yeah, take your time. Think about it. Most of my customers usually take like one week. You think about it? Would one week be OK?
And then keep quiet and then you listen if the person says, yeah, sure, one case, one week is OK to consider the proposal. Now in this case, what you have is a soft advancement. A hard advancement is when both of you agree that OK, the next step is on Monday the 12th of August. That will come to your office at 2:00 PM where we're going to look over site design. That is a hard advancement because you have agreed something that can go down in the calendar.
Very, very, very concretely. So whether you get a hard advancement, some people favor hard advancements all the time, but I'm just trying to be realistic here. It's not every single time you're going to get a hard advancement with anybody. So for me, I think soft advancements are enough. The person says, yeah, one week should be enough for me to consider the proposal. Fine, no problem. You can try and narrow it down. I say, OK, yeah, one week.
Cool. So does that mean I can call you back by by Thursday, 10:00 AM. This is all Thursday 10:00 AM. Yeah, I should be back in Abuja by then. Yeah, sure. Thursday, 10:00 AM. Try it. Let's see. Now in this case, you have a soft advancement. When Thursday comes around, you can confidently pick up the phone and call this person because she is the person who told you I might be back in Abuja by Thursday 10. So buzz me and we'll give you confidence in your follow up.
Although I prefer to say follow through, but that's the subject for another podcast episode. So now let's look at a couple of case studies to show how a lot of people are not getting advancements in their sales conversations and in their business conversations and how this thing is causing serious biggie. As in it's not allowing you to collect your money, it's not allowing you to pay school fees. You know, kids are back in school tomorrow.
So a whole bunch of us who are feeling the pinch right now. So for a bunch of this is the reason why around this time of year depression comes. It's because you'll not be getting advancement in your sales or business conversations. And then it's time to pay school fees next week. But if you've not been getting advancement with sales and business conversations, you don't have any idea of whether you can close this deal or realistically when the person is going to drop money or you know,
stuff like that. So this is really, really, really important. This one is not theory. I'm talking now. So yes, the fellow that wrote this book is, you know, professor, doctor, blah, blah, blah. All that is sounds theoretical, but this is life. This is practical, practical stuff, real life implications for you and me in moving our businesses forward. So the case study is going to be photography and video. In fact, that's the reason why I'm making this podcast myself because there's one of my classmates who is going to be inducted as a son that's a senior advocate of Nigeria.
Now for those of you who are not Nigerian, the senior advocates of the senior, yeah, the Sun title, Senior advocate of Nigeria is, is an award for, how I put it. It's like a prestigious award for just to say that people have reached the pinnacle of their profession when it comes to advocacy as people who show up before the courts. So you're supposed to, that's basically the for the legal professional. Now, what's it called?
There's a legal professional privileges committee or something. They're the ones that award the title. So if you are awarded the title of SAN, it just means like, you know, you're a correct guy, you're a correct babe, like you're top dog, you're really good at handling cases in court and things like that. So it's something that people pursue. They use it as a, as a way to distinguish themselves in the profession because we have millions and millions and millions of lawyers in Nigeria.
You know, hundreds of thousands graduate every single year. So, you know, the number of lawyers just keeps going up and up. But not everybody gets the coveted title of SAN, which is senior advocate of Nigeria. So one of my classmates is going to be inducted into the prestigious club as a, as a SAN, as a senior advocate. So of course I've been talking to this person. And so the person wanted recommendations for photographers and videographers.
And I was like, yeah, sure. No, Hala. I, I don't do that anymore. But I know a bunch of people who are, you know, correct, correct guys. And one baby in particular who is really, really solid when it comes to photography. So let me just send you their phone numbers and just let them know you're from me and you know, they'll take care of you. So that's how we ended the conversation. So now I called up my people. So I called up this babe on.
Hey, babe, what's up? Now you did. Are you free for So, so, so and so did she say? Yeah, I said, OK, my guy is doing this thing. He's going to be inducted. He's going to be signed, blah, blah, blah. And so I put your name down so that you can handle it. And she's like, oh, cool, thanks. And I spoke to my other guy, too. Excuse me. So I spoke to my guy. I'm like, hey, what's up? You know that, my friend. Now, you know that last job that I sent to you?
Yeah. The thing has the thing has clicked. Then I'm making him sound, so are you free for social? And so did I've spoken to him and yeah, so they'll be in touch soon. So anyway, the senior advocate to be, he says, OK, my wife is in charge of all these things, so just send everything to wifey. So I said no problem. So I call up wifey. So OK, this is what my husband discussed. I'm sending you a bunch of phone numbers. And so I sent it.
Then she reached out to them and apparently the way the conversation went was wifey just said OK, give me a quote and I'll get back to you. So that's how the thing went. So basically that's how it went. So video guy and Oola, he asked a bunch of questions, drop a quote and then sent and guess what? The lady went ghost. The lady didn't say anything. The lady is not she didn't say any message. She's not responding to messages.
Same thing on the photography end. So the wife of the son, son to be calls up my female photographer. They have a conversation, she sends a quote and then same thing. She goes ghosts. She didn't say anything. She's not responding to them. And then both these people, the photographer and the videographer, you know, they hit me up independently saying, boy Alfano, like this thing that you told us, like I sent in a quote and nothing happened.
Now, since these are my people and they know me from a photography background, I don't really go into details like this when we're talking about sales and business development because, well, anyway, maybe I should, maybe I should be talking to my crew on this level. But anyway, let's just say I have a previous photography life and my current life now as a sales coach and a business development consultant. And it's like I'm, I'm trying to get rid of the photography life and then pay attention to this.
So sometimes, you know, my old life and my new life don't mix. So that's some of my photography people who don't they know that I don't don't do photography anymore, but they don't know exactly what it is that I'm doing right now. So anyway, summary is when they spoke to the wife of the sun, they didn't get any advancement. And when you don't get any advancement when you're having a conversation with a potential customer, this is what happens.
They go ghost or they say let me get back to you or I'll call you when I'm ready and they don't respond to your respond to your message. So this is just a normal consequence of having no advancement if when you have the person on the phone or when you go to the person's office or when the person comes to your office or to your studio or you people meet at Hilton or whatever, or you guys meet in the public garden. If you don't leave that meeting with a clear sense of what the next step is you to be honest, I
mean like your next, your next, the next thing you're going to do to follow up the next action you're going to take. If it's unclear, the chances are that you're that you're going to do something or do something effectively are really, really slim. So the solution is the solution is very, very simple. Well, in this case, because me and the son were classmates is not a problem. So I told him, OK, don't worry, just give me one week.
I'll boss the guy, I'll boss his wife and I. So how far now, like my people say, you haven't responded and that's how we're going to rescue the whole thing. But remember, it's not always, or rather bear in mind that it's not always that you're going to be in this situation where you will have someone who can rescue the deal on your behalf. So in the future, especially since we don't always have someone who can rescue the deal,
what should we do in this kind of situation? Photography video. Madam said give me a quote, you send the quote, next thing she hasn't heard ghost mode, she's non responsive, she's incommunicado. What should we do or rather what should we have done? First is when you gave the quote, you should have tried to get feedback on the quote. So if you gave the quote and she says, oh, thank you very much, I've received it. I said, OK, Madam, I just wanted to walk you through a couple of things.
Option A, Option B, option C, and clearly you've seen the price range. So for all these packages right now, which one catches your fancy or which one is closer to what you have in mind? And you now start talking specifically about specific things in the proposal. You can see that you're beginning to now narrow things down and you'll be able to get to the point of she likes package B, but package B is too expensive, so she wants to negotiate.
If at that point you say, OK, no problem, everything is negotiable, but we've already been talking for like 10 minutes, so can I come to the office next week Wednesday so that we can talk properly about this thing? And she says, oh, yeah, sure, no problem. Next week Wednesday is fine. You can see how now that by asking for feedback on the quote, you're going to be able to pull an advancement out of it. So you now know that yes, she has seen the quote, you guys have had a soft prelim conversation, but that you have agreed that Wednesday morning,
10:00 AM, you should show up in the office so that you guys will talk some more. In fact, that's what I recommend anyway. If you sit down in the office and you know you have a conversation, you're there, you can see how you read body language and blah, blah, blah. And it depends on the size of the deal because it's not everybody now you should be going to their house or going to their office because you end up spending a lot of money.
So some conversations over the phone. But if it's a big enough deal, then you're sure the more personal you can make some of these things, the better. So that is one way that they could have gotten an advancement. You sent the quote while you are on the phone with the woman. You know, get some feedback on the quote and then tease an advancement out of that. Now, for some people, they think they're not creative. OK, no problem.
If you say you're not creative and you don't know how to think on the fly, then this is one thing that anybody can use. When you're not sure what the next step should be, just ask the person what would you like to do next and then keep quiet. So you send proposal to Madame. Madame says, oh, thank you very much, I received the proposal. I saw it in the WhatsApp message. OK, Ma, So now that you've seen the proposal, what would you like to do next?
Keep quiet and then hear what Madame has to say. That is not a bad way of trying to get advancements, although it's not foolproof because Madame can say, you know what, let me think about it and I'll get back to you. So in that case, yeah, you're just leaning OK. Yes. Yes, ma'am. Of course, before you end up spending 500 Ki, understand you have to think about this thing. No problem. But my usual clients typically take about a week to consider proposals before they get back to me.
Would a week be OK? Oh, yes. A week should be fine. OK, ma'am. So can I call you by Monday 9? Monday 9, I think I'm having something in my children's school, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. OK, just try Monday night. So, OK, no problem. I'll try Monday at 9:00. If I don't get you, I'll hit you up again at noon. OK, no problem. Bye bye. So you can see soft advancement then. This is another one that I used to use, well, not me actually,
but one of my video guys back then, Chagon, that we used to do lots of work together. This is something that he used to use and I think he's really, really effective. After the proposal, this is what Chagon will say. Chagon will say, OK, cool, cool, cool. So to get a crew ready for December 1st, I need a deposit of 50% by so, so, so and so date so that I can mobilize. Is this something that you're ready to do? And then he will keep quiet.
This is also a way of getting an advancement. They've looked at proposal. We've read body language. You're not sure if they're here nor there. Well, clearly they haven't run away. Well, this is one way to preempt the conversation. We say OK, to get the crew ready for so, so, so and so. Did I need to mobilize 2 weeks before to mobilize properly, I need a deposit. The deposit has to be 50%, eighty percent, 30%, you know,
whatever it is. So this is something we can make happen by the by. So, so, so and so did and he will be specific about it. That is a way of getting advancement. So when you're having conversations this way, you're now going to avoid that situation where you've given a quote to Madame, and then Madame says, I'll call you when I'm ready. In this case, even though you have Oga's phone number, when you call Oga, what are you going to say exactly?
Oga has passed you through to Madame. You've been in touch with Madame. Madame is ghosting you. So, like, what are you going to do? Anyway? I hope you guys are beginning to get a sense of why advancements are really, really essential in sales and business conversations and advancement is just what is the next step. And then we have to agree to the next step. When I say we, I mean you and this potential customer you're talking to, you guys have to agree on the advancement at this current conversation that you're having.
I agree whether is a hard one like Monday 10:00 AM, I'm coming to your office and we will review XYZ part of the proposal. That one is very, very hard because you can put it on your calendar. She can tell her PA to make a note in office diary. So the hard, the harder the better. Well, if you can't get a hard advancement, but you get a soft one, like, oh, I should be in Abuja in about a week's time and I'll be around for maybe two or three days before I travel again and say, oh, OK, man.
So that sounds like you should be back in town between September 10th and September 13th. Yeah, that sounds about right. OK. But so if I call you any of those three days, is it fine? Yeah, sure, no problem. You can call me. OK cool. In this case, that is not a hard advancement because it's kind of somehow September 10th to September 13th. It's kind of broad, but still, it's better than nothing. These are the things that you can do that are going to help you to get out of this hole.
Let me get back to you. Let me think about it. Let me call my husband, let me discuss with my sister. I'll call you when I'm ready, you know, blah, blah, blah. So advancements are absolutely essential in the sales process and we should be trying to figure out how we can get advancements in every single step of the conversation. If you'd like to learn more about this, the podcast is now available on YouTube. All you have to do is search my name and put advancement there and you will see every single episode that I've made about advancement so far.
We have over 925 episodes of the podcast available on YouTube, so just go and search. You will see it. Listen with the pencil and the paper. Write down things that sound doable that you can do when you're done. Use YouTube the same way and look for other videos on how to secure advancements in sales conversations and listen to other people as well. See what other perspectives are out there. Don't just follow what it is that I've said here.
Who else is out there, whether Nigerian sales trainers or foreign here, what else is out there? You'll be better off for it. Apply one or two things. So like I say, if you hit me up and you want to work with me, yeah sure, I'll take your money. I mean, I need it, I'd love to have it, but really there's lots of free resources that you can use for now. So that's it for today. And I hope I've been able to convince you guys and not confuse you on why advancements are really, really, really important in moving the business deal forward to the close and also to avoid ghosting.
So thanks for your time and attention. I'll catch you guys at the next episode. My phone number is 08064662140. Country code is +234. That's for those of you who want to connect with me on WhatsApp for tips, questions, or insights. Then for LinkedIn, the name is Tava Shima Ayede. You can confirm it from the link. We're listening to this episode. If you're on YouTube, just check bottom left. You see the title of the of the video and then my name is up above.
So the name is what you should just copy and paste into LinkedIn. And then you see my handsome face pop up on LinkedIn. You follow me there and you can engage with me there as well. So I'll catch you guys at the next episode.