Debriefing for Growth: How to Turn Satisfied Customers into Repeat Business & Referrals

Hello and welcome to the show. Today is an out and about episode so I expect more noise than usual and that's because I'm actually outside a Mamaput. Now some of you might be wondering what am I doing outside of Mamaput and that is because I'm outside the American Embassy. No, I'm not trying to Jack my anytime soon, but I'm helping a friend sort a couple of things out and you know how it is when you know, Nigerians always keen to run away from their country and stuff like that.

So you know, when we go to these foreign embassies, there's no nice place for us to wait inside. So the rest of us will have non embassy, non diplomatic, non whatever related issues. We have to wait outside. And unfortunately the Mama boat is the most comfortable place over here. So I've had my breakfast, I had some my current Fanta and I think I'm good to go. So let me just make a quick recording while I wait on my, what's the word?

No, not benefactor. When you're trying to help someone else, you are the benefactor. The person you're trying to help is the, I don't know, beneficiary. Yeah, I think beneficiary. So why wait for my beneficiary? I hope I use the terms correctly. So we're going to continue the conversation that we started yesterday on how to handle the customer debriefs. And if this is your first time of listening to the show, the reason why we're going to look at how to handle customer debriefs, it's because the debrief or the post OP, you know, the post events, the post whatever is essential to getting repeat business and referrals.

So you can't get someone to come and do business with you in the future or send their friends, their family members and associates to come do business with you if you're not sure that everything went according to plan and that they are happy with the service that you provided. So if you provided service for someone of service or or a product for someone and you think you did a correct job, you think you did a bankrupt job,

like you are spot on, you are on point. But if the person thinks you did 50% doesn't change the fact that the person thinks you did 50% even if you give yourself 120%. So the chances that the person is going to refer you are slim. So we're better off trying to figure out like Mommy, I thought everything was on point, Olga, I thought this was on point, Where did we go wrong, blah, blah, blah. Have that whole conversation first before you can now say like, oh, Odogu, I noticed that you're connected to chiefs or so.

So and so, you know, can you make an introduction? So these are the sorts of things that we have to handle first of all, before we get people to come and do business with us again and before they refer business to us. So it's called different things according to different industries. I just said the client debrief, some people in medical circles, it's called, I think it's called the post op. You know, you have the post operative conference.

So you're done with the surgery. You sit down with the clients. You know, Madam, this went well. I got this went well. You know, we removed your kidney and blah, blah, blah. And you know, the appendix is fine and this and this and that and that. So it's called different things according to different whatever, but you get the point. After you have done this thing, you guys have to have that sit down where you have the conversation to try and figure out did everything go according to plan, What could you have done better?

All those sorts of things. Now, how should you have this client debrief? In my own personal opinion, I would advise strongly that you have this client debrief. You do it informally, you also do it casually, You also do it conversationally. Now, the reason why I'm advocating for this is because the Nigerian thing at the moment seems to have a formal exit questionnaire. You know, you have a clipboard and boxes and they're asking people questions and ticking on the boxes or you hand over the questionnaire to them and then they tick the boxes.

How happy are you? 0, I'm not happy. Five, I'm exceptionally happy. Three, I was somewhat happy but also somewhat disappointed, you know, things like that. And it also is Nigerian thing to have review forms. So after the events, after the service, after the whatever, you scan the post code or you send them a Google doc or something and they do the same thing. It's essentially the same thing as a exit questionnaire or a post, whatever questionnaire or a satisfaction survey.

The only difference is just that this thing is now done online now. So excuse me now, these options are not bad. I repeat the exit questionnaire, the online forum, the Google this, the whatever thing, the satisfaction survey, these things are not bad. So if you're doing that already, yeah, kudos then. Plus to you, the problem is because it is a very formal thing and because the terms are fixed. So excuse me, you're not going to be able to get the most amount of information that you can if someone was sitting down and the person was just vibing with you.

Now, let me give you an example since I come from the wedding space, that's where I started off my entrepreneurial journey. It is not uncommon that we wedding vendors do something that take off family members. Like back when I was a wedding photographer, there was something that I did back then, I used to carry my, I used to carry a lot of gear on me. So I'd have my two DSLRs, my two cameras, one on the left, one on the right.

And then I also had my rucksack. No, not rucksack. What's this thing called? You know, this bag, like secondary school kids, they put on on your back. And then I had my extra lenses and stuff like that. So there's this particular wedding where I was trying to get it shot. I was angling in the bad way. And then my, what's it called? My rucksack, the bag was hanging on the back. It knocked off a woman's Gilly and Omar was upset.

And, you know, as a young photographer back then, So in my own opinion, I'm like, ah, Madam, I knocked off your Gilly. So like, what's the big deal? You know, and I just, I say sorry, man. Then I continued, But it was clear to everybody that, you know, when I said sorry, man, I was just saying sorry, man for the sake of being polite. Now, unfortunately for me, Madam, who's Gilly I knocked off, turned out to be one of the big aunties of the bride.

So these are just some of the things that we wedding and event professionals do, like we take off family members and we don't know. And So what could have been an otherwise stellar service, what could have been an otherwise stellar ServiceNow turns out to be a a situation where, you know, family members, respected family members have significant complaints. So you might think your wedding photographer did a spot job as in like the girls on point.

But if all your aunties say that this young man is a rude twat, then you know, kind of colours the perception at the end of the day that yeah, the photos were nice, but you were a rude twat. Now if you do a job for someone and you were indeed a rude twat, there is no box on the exit questionnaire on the online forum on the whatever for you to say, for the person to say you were a rude twat or to take that one of your employees was a rude twat.

Some people might have a box where they say click other or click employee dissatisfaction. That does not convey the gravity of how rude a twat you were or how rude a twat your employee was. This whole thing of you were a rude twat or your employee self as in you know, the ampies were smelling or whatever. These sorts of things only come out through conversations when you show up and like, hey, what's up? How's the bride?

I hope you guys love your photos, blah, blah, blah. I want to be sure that everything went OK and the bride says it was OK Shah, it was OK. How you didn't love the photos. I love the photos OK, but the way you're hesitating like I can tell something is wrong, just level with me, my person. What happened? What happened saying well, you know, there was one time my auntie said this. You knocked off her Gilly the way you spoke to her.

You were even arguing with my in laws and blah blah blah. You know this was not good. Now you know, see that kind of thing will come out in a simple informal, casual conversational thing is there? You can now say I'm totally sorry. I didn't know it was a mommy sister. Oh, I'm sorry. Now you know I was under pressure on it to get that kiss. Oh, I'm sorry. And this and this. And you know, you can talk this thing over. You send a Google, a Google Sheet, a Google, whatever.

She'll feel it. But there's no box to say you are a twat. And because there's no box to say you are a twat, you don't know what to say sorry for. And you don't know how to improve your twittering in the future or improve your what's the word? It's a word like idiocy or Edo. I know you get the point. So that's the reason why I say it is best to have these conversations informally, casually first. Pick up the phone, go to their office like you should be sitting down one-on-one or you know, Zoom call or something.

Have this conversation first. You can now send the formal whatever later. I know that does create some problems. If you work for organizations like let's say the British Council, for instance, provide media services for them through the, because I still have the photography company, I just don't shoot weddings anymore. So yes, with the British Council and those kinds of organizations, everything is excessively formal.

So it is online link, Tick this box, fill out this SurveyMonkey, do this, review this, you know, everything is formal, formal, formal. So unfortunately, if you work for those kinds of organizations, I'd say, you know, go ahead and do the formal thing. It still doesn't stop you really from having a formal conversation first after it is out what all the issues are you now say, OK, you know what, I've heard everything you said.

I'm really sorry. I'll take responsibility. I'll try and solve this, this, this and this. But please, I beg. No Vex Margas says that we should be filling out all these form or whatever. So please, I beg, I'll still send you the link so you can fill it out. But this thing that you've told me about the twat on our team, I will handle it. I would, I take full responsibility. I will handle it myself to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen again.

So how should we handle it? That's the reason why I say informal, casual, conversational. You know how we Nigerians can be, if it's informal, they will talk and they will talk very well and you will hear everything. If your employees, if they smell, that's where you hear it. If your employees can't speak good English, that's where you hear it. If you suspect, if they suspect that your employee may have stolen somebody's mobile phone,

that is where you will hear it. But if you do all this formal or whatever, you know, Nigerians are polite, you know, they're just feel the thing, but you're not going to get to the root of what it is that is going on. So if it's casual conversation, you're going to get honest feedback. You're also going to be able to press in where something is unclear. So remember the example that I gave about where the bride says, yes, I was happy with the photo of Shah on the form.

If the person thinks, if the person takes option three, I was happy, but somewhat not happy. You don't, you can't dig in. But when somebody says I was happy, Sha, you're there. You can see the face, you can hear the tone. You know that there's something it is. Then you can press and say, sister, this one, they said I'm not really happy. I'm not really happy with that. In fact, because you're my personal person, I will sit here today, even if it takes two hours.

I'm not leaving here until I figure out exactly what was the problem, what is it that I did wrong or what did my staff do wrong. I know there's a problem. I won't leave here until you tell me because you're my person, so you can only press in for feedback. If it's casual conversational. The general talking points that you should be aiming for when it comes to the debrief is quite simple. You should be. The spirit of the conversation should be, I hope you're happy with XYZ, the product you received, the service you received.

Another talking point, another general scope should be what do you wish we had done different with XYZ, with your product, with your service? I'm trying to avoid saying what do you think we did wrong? Because like I said, Nigerians are nice people. Somebody might not want to come out and say you sent ushers that had smelly habits to my event. That was wrong. So you know, the average Nigerian is not going to come out and say that.

But if you say, what do you wish we had done better? You know, the person can now say, you know, next time Sha, you know, your manager should be around to check sanitation. You know, sanitation where was an issue because you're there, you can now press sanitation. Really that that what happened? I saw the uniforms. Uniforms are looking clean and the person says it's not the uniform now. Now it should be using when you are passing chamois and cooling.

You didn't smell the the body odor. So excuse me, So you didn't smell the body odor, blah, blah, blah. You know, so that's all those things that come out. So just say what do you wish we did different? Another talking point, another scope is, you know, we are so sorry about XYZ because a time will come where somebody will say something bad, something negative. You're not to try and defend yourself. The response is always, oh, I'm sorry for XY and ZI take full responsibility.

By the way, when you say I take full responsibility, it doesn't mean it was your fault. I take full responsibility just means I'm making sure that this thing is going to be resolved and I'm taking charge to make sure that this problem does not occur again. It goes a long way with most people and it goes a long way especially with Nigerians because in Nigeria we have a culture of impunity. People do what they want, they say what they want.

Like if you're powerful and can get away with anything, like should be collected your money, you just collect your money and go. So actually there's a breath of fresh air when a vendor or a service provider or somebody says, oh, Sir, Madam, totally sorry that this thing happened. I will take full responsibility to make sure that we resolve this issue. So if you don't mind, man, I need to ask you a couple of questions because I have to figure out exactly what happened so that I can resolve this thing within the next one week.

Man, is it OK? Can I ask you questions? I wish Madam will say, don't worry, it's OK. You know, mistakes happen. If you can't get any more details, no Allah. But then some people will say, Oh yes, I really appreciate this and they'll go ahead and they'll spill their guts out. Your job is not to defend. Your job is to take notes, be apologetic and take responsibility. Then another talking point, do you need any more help with XYZ

said product or said service? That's the example that I gave yesterday with the sale of exercise equipment, exercise bikes. You know how in most Nigerian households, Well, not most Nigerian households should I say middle income households, middle income, upper income households, You know, we all have that family member. In fact, it might even be you listening to the show. There's an exercise bike in your house. It's been there seven years, 10

years, nobody has used it. You know, you, you guys now use it as an ironing rack. You iron the children's clothes or you iron your clothes for tomorrow and then you hang it there. So these are good talking points. Do you need any more help with XYZ if you sell these sorts of equipment? If you want fuller details of what I'm talking about here, just listen to the prior episode. And that was an example that I fleshed up.

So these are just some of the general talking points that we can go on during the debrief. What we're trying to figure out is what went right, what could have been done better, what went wrong, What can we do to improve the service? Because we have to finish all these things first before we can now say, or can you give me the number of your bridesmaids? Because you as a wedding photographer, you want to follow up on some of the bridesmaids.

You notice that one or two are engaged. You want to see whether you can be the wedding photographer. So it's only after you've had this conversation that it makes sense to say, oh, by the way, I noticed, can we just go engaged? Can you know, can I have a phone number? So. So summary. Yeah, before you ask for the ferral, be sure that they're happy. Be sure that there are no outstanding issues. Back to the wedding photography example, if you're asking for a referral when you've only submitted the album, you haven't submitted the frame or you submitted the frame, the bride didn't like the frame, you've got to change it.

So that quarrel is still hanging and you're trying to get a referral. That's not the right time because we still have outstanding issues. Then also be sure that no unspoken misgivings, no unspoken issues and those sorts of things. So how to ask for referrals? The first thing is that you have to ask what the different formula or different formulae, OK, Formula should be one and formulae should be two, I think. Was it the other way that formulae is single and then formula is anyway.

Yeah, you, you catch the drift. So the different formulae, let's assume that formulae is plural, but you have to ask after we've had the pleasant or some people say ask after any pleasant interactions. So like back in my selling financial product days, insurance people, they say that you can ask for the referral anytime. If you've had a pleasant meeting, you can ask anytime. That's OK because given that kind of service or that kind of product, you don't have hard deliverables per SE.

So it's not like wedding photography where there's the moment of joy and elation where the bride opens our wedding album, you know, or let's see what else. Or if you're in the fashion space, you know, that moment of, you know, when the woman puts on the dress and she's looking fly and then she starts taking selfies when she goes for the wedding or whatever. So if you're the fashion person and you see the selfies, you now know that are correct based on how the woman is posing and how she's tweeting or talking about it, you know that that's good.

So you can now call her up the day after to say, oh, Madam, I saw the pictures, you like your dress, blah, blah, blah. You know anybody in your office, you know, who needs a fashion designer, give them my number. You know, that whole thing. So, yeah. So I guess for financial services, you can ask anytime after a pleasant interaction. But for most people, the best time to ask would be after a delivery. That's for those of us who have physical hardcore deliveries.

Then the words to use. For now, just keep it simple. Although I promise that I'm going to make a future episode where I'm going to go in detailed into referral, referral frameworks so that you can see what ideas are out there, you know, people who have come up with referral frameworks for their own. And, you know, let's just freestyle a bunch of those in the future episode. But for now, the most basic way would just be, you know, do you know anyone who XYZ?

So you're done. The bride is happy. Back to the wedding photography example. She loves everything. She loves the frames. And you just ask, Yeah. So you know, anybody who's getting married anytime soon. And then you keep quiet and then you hear what they say. Some people say if you ask do you know anybody who that has to vague, it's too general, but you can get a better response when you ask the question who do you know that is getting married anytime soon?

You know, so who do you know that is XYZ? Well, you get the whole point, you know, you ask then there are some people who say that for referrals to really pop to work, it helps if you've done some research or some scoping beforehand and you're asking about specific people. So in this case, I'm sure to ask the bride like she's happy with everything and they now noticed that oh, I noticed that Kami got engaged recently.

I saw her wedding ring. You know, when we're talking earlier, there's no ring, but now I noticed the ring. So she got engaged recently happy. So yeah, it is true Cam they proposed to Kami was even during the barrel shower that the guy came and proposed and everything. Oh, it was wonderful. It was lovely, blah, blah, blah. You guys have a small talk and then there are people who say that you ask, you know, specifically now.

So does Kami have a wedding photographer? Can I have a phone number so I can talk to her about being her wedding photographer, as he asked specifically? So there are some people who say that your referral strategy has to be that specific. You're done with this person. But you now have a sense of who it is that they know, you know, based on who they seem to be connected with in the office or connected with on LinkedIn.

And then you asking specifically that. Oh, Odogu, you seem to be connected to Chief Linus. Yeah, me and Linus, we're very good friends. We went to Saint Gregory's College Orca in 1956. He said, oh, that's good. Oh, please, can I have Chief Linus phone number? I want to talk to him about this. This is and that that that project. So. OK, no problem. No problem. Well, let me talk to Chief Linus first. OK, Sir, no problem.

When can I call you back and call me? Next week, You know, then you put it in your diary. Remember the conversation we had on CRM? Put in your diary, put it on your phone so you can call Odogo back next week to find out how far whether he has spoken to Chief Linus. So there are some people who say that your referral strategy should be that specific. Now give me a couple of days. I will look and see what else is out there about referral frameworks.

I think we should dedicate a full episode to, you know, the whole philosophy and methodologies around referrals. But from a traditional sales point of view, you know, these are the ways that all school sales people will go about it. But there has been some development in the space. There are people who are studying referrals specifically and who say that this is the best way to go about it. That is the best way to go about it.

So we'll have a future episode to deal with that. So since we're 20 minutes over, let me bring this to a close. Thank you very much for your time and attention. My name is Tavis Shimaidi, I'm the host of the show. So excuse me, the host of the show. Please connect with me on LinkedIn. If you want to figure out the spelling of my name, just check the link. We're listening to this episode. My e-mail address is going to be there as well.

Then connect with me on WhatsApp. The phone number is 08064662140. The country code is +234. For those of you who are not Nigerian, thank you very much for your time and attention. I'll catch you guys at the next recording. Hopefully I won't be outside a Mamaput. Which reminds me, I had a car and Fanta for breakfast. I think I might take this woman up on her offer for Indo me. My wife doesn't like it when I ate in public, but I'll just give it a shot.

If I end up in the toilet after this Indo me, I'll let you guys know. So yeah, I'll catch you guys at the next episode.