How to Hire, Train, and Manage a Successful Sales Team

Hello and welcome to the show today. I'm not in the audio booth, so apologies for any interruptions coming in through the background. If you'd love to connect for a strategy session, the phone number is 08064662140. The country code is +234. Then you can find me on LinkedIn. The name to look for is Tavishima Aide. I'm the host of the show and then you can also find me on YouTube in case you like to get the podcast over there.

So last week on my radio show. But I mean, I called in from Wu and she had some troubles with managing car sales people. Now because the connection was sporty, we couldn't really get into detail about what business she's into. But I was able to hear one of the stories. It turned out to be a sob story show, a very sad story and one of those things that breaks my heart because lots of Nigerian employers can be very cruel or wicked.

But then in her own part, she went out of her way to be really kind to her sales people, in fact, paying house rent for one of them. And the lady just upped and left. And so the investments in salary and in house rent just went up in smoke basically. So Madam Mommy and I had some questions about how to manage sales people. And while we're on the air, I was able to tackle some parts of the question. I tried talking again, I think this week, but we didn't finish it anyway.

But I'm going to make a podcast recording. Today's episode is about that just so that those of you who are in a similar position, you know, you're having problems with managing your sales people, you know how to go about it. So the way that we tackle this problem for Madam, I mean, I also look at it from a three pronged perspective. So First off, we have to make sure that we hire the right kind of sales people because if we want to make sure that people don't up and abandoned us or you know, don't do a strong team, we have to make sure that we're hiring the right people in the 1st place.

The next one to make sure that the incentives are aligned. Incentives just means, you know, what's that sugar? What's that sweetness? What are you trying to do to get them to play along as a part of your organization? So what are the incentives? And then the last part of the discussion that we looked at was on how to train people well, on how to train sales people well because they need continual training. So there is nothing that is 100%

correct, foolproof. So it doesn't mean that if you take these three steps that you won't have sales people that will disappoint you or that you have sales people that will never leave you or that you'll have sales people that will never 'cause you headache. There's nothing that is 100% correct. I mean, think about it. I mean, even, you know, even God who is the master of the universe, you know, can't OK, well he has chosen not to compel us to, to do things 100%

correct. So The thing is, if God can't achieve 100% success rate when it comes to human beings, then don't expect that you will in your own business achieve 100% success rate. However, if you're mad I'm in a situation you've been having problems with managing sales people, this is the starting point about how you need to look at things #1 higher right? Make sure you have the right people on your team #2 incentivize well to make sure that your goals and your visions are aligned so that if you're heading north, they do, they're also heading north.

Then also train your people well. Then after that, we're going to have some particular advice around character assessment and then some particular recourse that might be available to Madam Amina in case you're in that kind of situation. You know, all kind of things you can do with the with the courts and then how to get your money back. If you're somebody like Madam Amina, you had some sales people, you're trying to treat them nice.

You paid house rent and at the end of the day, Sharda just ghosted you. And then house rent issue is, is, is pending. You're looking for a new sales person. That one is pending to get your millions back that you spent house rent on, you know, down is spending. So let's start off on high right now. To hire the right salesperson. You need to look for somebody that has a growth mindset. You also need to look for people that have listening skills.

I also need to look at people that have talking skills. Most of you go straight to the whole talking skills thing, but let's just break things down 1 by 1 so you understand what is the way, what we are, where we're heading to. So First off, growth mindset. Now what does a growth mindset means and what does it mean? Now in the Nigerian context, every single time you hear growth mindset, it just means a person where they hear word, as in somebody who listens to instruction, somebody who believes that things can be done and somebody who has an air of humility.

Again, growth mindset just means person where they hear word, somebody who believes it can be done, person who has an air of humility, somebody who is willing to learn because if you mess up and you marry somebody that, so I say marry, hire somebody that has a fixed mindset because a fixed mindset is the person who believes that look, nothing is ever their fault. Things never change. The problem is always the customer, the problem is always you, blah, blah, blah.

If you go and carry somebody like that and put that person in your business as a salesperson, you've given yourself one chance. That is serious hanging. You know, like you, you do high jump. You just hang yourself in the air like you're in a serious predicament. There's nothing you can do apart from sack that person. Because people who have a fixed mindset, you can't, you can't shake them. That's just how they are. Is that they were born like that or when they were born, you know, their parents, I don't know, maybe their parents mess them up or something, sure, But that's just their factory settings, their default.

You can't change it. Well, you can't. You can't change, but it's hard. So that is why I advise clients that it is better to make sure that we hire the right person first, then we now train them on other things. Some people like to look at technical expertise. So if you're hiring, let's say you own a shop that sells paint. Some people want to hire somebody who knows everything about paint. They know the different kinds of emotion, they know the different kinds of this is the different technique, the everything.

You want to hire the paint specialist now that's not a bad idea. But The thing is you hire a pain specialist, but the person has a fixed mindset. That guy will mess you up severely, seriously mess you up. Because if the client says, oh, I don't like this, it should be like this. The person with the fixed mindset will say, no, I am the pro, I'm the specialist or the customer chew where you are. I will do this thing my own way.

Now, I'm not saying that we should bend to whatever it is that the customers want. But The thing is, if we don't handle these things the right way, customers leave some situations not feeling heard, not feeling validated, not feeling appreciated. And that is what limits their chances of coming back for repeat business because the money is made when people come back and do business with us again or referrals to somebody else.

So if you run a paint shop and somebody comes and buys paints and everything, at the end of the day you give them B, you know, the bill is like 900 K and you're like God has done it for me. See, The thing is that 900 K is not really the sweet money. The sweet money is if the client comes and she dropped in 100K now and then she now calls you in four months to say, OK, that my last house I finished building it, but now I'm building another house in Guzabe.

So how far can you guys come and paint that thing? Now that is where the sweet money comes in because she dropped 900 K three months ago. She's calling you up. Now. This one is possibly maybe like 1.5 or something. And the reason why it's a sweet money is because the first time she came in, you had to advertise, you had to hustle, you had to all kinds of things to get people into the store. But then the 2nd and the 3rd and the 4th and the 5th time that the woman comes into the store,

that is easy money. That is money that you are not chasing. It is money that you woke up and you were thinking, Kai, what we do today and then all of a sudden this person shows up and then the deal is easier to close. Because if everything was sweet the way that she worked the last time and she trusts you guys and you guys had a good relationship, it makes it easier to close the sale now. And then if she starts referring people to you, they think it becomes even more sweeter.

So when we're in sales, what we're looking at is customer lifetime value or look at repeat business, repeat purchases. We're looking at referrals. That's where the sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet money is. So it's not just that somebody will come and drop 900K or not today, bam, that means things are good. We're trying to see how somebody will drop 900K in January, maybe they can drop 1.5 in September, maybe next year they can drop maybe 400,000.

But in between they have been sending more people to us that have been, you know, giving us, you know, 150 K 1.2, you know, 300, you know, all those kind of things. That's where the sweet money comes from. So if you have somebody who is the expert, but the person has a fixed mindset, they get a totally out of your business. So in my own opinion, I tell people that look, when it comes to medicine and all these other technical stuff, hire the right person.

So if you run a hospital, please hire the doctor that graduated first class. But when it comes to sales, on the other hand, hire the person who has a growth mindset. Hire the person, you know, person where they hear would hire that person first. You can hire that person and then now start training the person. OK, look for paint. This is emotion, this is gloss, this is a vostic. This is this, this is that. This is the best for this.

This is the best for that, for this kind of wall up stroke, for this kind of wall side stroke, for this kind of wall down stroke, for this kind of wall use roller. For this kind of wall, use cement blaster. You know, you're now trained a person on technical stuff. That is the kind of person who is amenable to working really well in your business. So Please remember this is contextual. If you're hiring for a professional, if you're hiring an engineer or an architect or a lawyer or a doctor, hire the person who finished first class who knows their stuff.

Because if you hire the engineer who graduated Tutu and then they finished the building or the architect finished two, two or third class or pass and they finished the building and the building collapses is going to be on your head. Police will be after you, Governor will be after you. It's on your head. So when it comes to these technical professions, law, medicine, what else? If you're looking for a pilot, please go and hire the best pilot possible law, whether they have growth mindset or fixed mindset, make sure you hide the best pilot.

Because if you go and hide a pilot that graduated with pass or you know, let my people go degree and the plane crashes, it's all on you, right? But when it comes to sales, look for the person that has a growth mindset first. They're now trained the person upon the other things. So for Madam Amina and other people in that situation, we should be looking for people who have a growth mindset. Another thing is that people who have growth mindset, like, you know, I'm with, you know, let's grow, let's do this thing.

Those people also have more. What's the word? I don't know what the word is of like stickiness. They hang around, they give it a shot. Like almost I started it. Let me just let me finish it. Let me just let me just see more people fix mindset. They can't start something like I man, this thing is this thing is long story. And then next thing they start to do U-turn and they start doing reverse on you and then you're left in the lurch.

But somebody with a growth mindset will say, I don't you care. Let me just follow through. So that's why I look for people who have growth mindset. Then of course you need to listen to hire people who have listening skills. Listening skills are important because well, first of all, you want them to listen to you because you're the old guy. You're the one who knows the best way to sell your product or your service. In theory, you know you've been selling whatever it is you're selling for, you know, 10/15/20

years. So you know what's up. You know who the customers, who the best customers are. You know the best lines to use. You know the best ways to choose people to buy the product or the service. So they should be listening to you. Listening skills also come in handy because you also need to listen to the customer and figure out what the customer values, what the customer thinks is important. It is only when you listen to the customer, you know what the customer values, that you can now make a a convincing sales pitch.

So you want sales people who listen back to the painting. Some people might roll up on somebody and start saying Madam, buy this paint. This paint is the best because it is emotion. It is ISO 15 something, something certified and it is sustainable, is built with these, you know, sustainable what's what's this thing called? Sustainable business practices something, something, something, you know, all those things. And technically speaking, what you're saying might be correct.

It might be the most modern paint on the market that is done with sustainable business practices. So it has no adverse effect on the environment. And it is this and this and all that and all that. But The thing is the Madam who is in the paint shop now, who wants to buy paint, if she doesn't care about sustainable business, then what are you talking about sustainable, sorry sustainable business products and what are you talking about sustainability for?

If as far as she is concerned environmental global warming is scam and you keep on saying this thing, you actually will be irritating her. So that's why you need to listen to the person, figure out what they find valuable. You will now know how it is that you're going to sell because if Madam is like most Abuja mothers and she is tired of seeing mode inside the building because well, for me, I've just gotten used to the fact that look,

anywhere you go, share Adobe mode. It's just Abuja builders are useless. Oh, by the way, I just finished moving house recently. So we're done. We're finally settled in. But of course, as we're coming in, we had to was that thing scrape the we had to scrape off mold from the wall and do treatment and everything. So that's just how Abuja builders are. Abuja builders are useless. They're stupid. I don't understand it, Abuja is in a dry location but every single house in Abuja has mold in it.

How in a dry climate? On the other hand, Lagos is next to the sea and it's moist and everything. But in Lagos, I have lived in a house in Lagos back when I was in Mumsy, we lived in one house for 10 years. We did not see a single spot of mold. So I don't get it in Lagos that is wet and moist, people can build and there will be no mold. But for some reason Abuja developers very useless, very stupid. Every single house has mold in a dry climate.

I don't understand. In the UK it rains every single day but you will live in your house in the UK you will not see a single spot of mold. I only heard of one of my guys that had more treatment in the bathroom so I mold in the bathroom and they had to call the landlord to treat it. So I don't understand. UK is wet no mold, Lagos is wet no mold. Abuja is dry mold everywhere. I don't know Abuja different anyway where was I?

So what I'm trying to say is now so that Madame dies in is in the shop if I own his outlook. I'm tired of seeing mold in my house. I have three young babies under the age of seven. I don't want it. Our own mold, you know I don't want them allergies, blah, blah, blah. If you listen to it, Madam, you now know that. OK, this Madam, I entered into the shop the categories of paint we should be showing her. Let us leave all this sustainable ISO certified international.

This is. Let's leave all that one. Let us only show her these ones. This one that is mold treatment. This one that is mold prevention. This one that is non harsh smell, non allergy, non nothing, and these are the things that make you effective in selling. So if you hire somebody who listens to the customer, that is how we determine, OK, which one are we going to present? Which paint will we show? What are we going to talk about?

How are we going to toaster? How are we going to get her to buy? So that's why listening skills are important. Then of course, talking skills. Talking skills is just when you know, being able to communicate value to say that, Madam, this is what you should buy. So these are the things you'll be looking out for when you're trying to hire a salesperson. But please make sure you hire a salesperson that has a growth mindset because with a growth mindset, they will listen to you.

They will take dressing, they will listen to the customer. They will also hang around for longer because people who have growth mindset, when they start something, they must finish it or at least they must push it to a logical conclusion. Somebody who has a growth mindset is going to say, look, when I started with this company, I said I was going to achieve this. I was going to achieve this, I was going to achieve that.

They will do their best. If they have problems, will come and meet you and say, OK, line manager, I beg, you know, I don't hook. Yes, we agreed on this. But to be honest, this is where I'm struggling. And you guys will have that conversation. Somebody who has a fixed mindset will say, like, I beg, I don't tire. I can't go and kill myself. And then one day they'll just will show up to work. You will now be calling them,

you know, phone number switched off and blah, blah, blah. And for some reason it's becoming like a problem even Niger to and look, if you're listening to this podcast, it's dishonest. Stop it. If somebody has you to work for them, this whole thing of like, you know, you just don't show up again, like it's absolute rubbish. I don't get it. There's one person I was consulting for that one of his staff. One day she didn't show up to work and you know, where is she?

Where is she? Where is she picked up course, she said that she's stressed that she's taking a mental health day. Taking a mental health what? See, mental health is important. But The thing is when you decide to work for someone, you have contractually committed yourself to working for a certain number of days. So show up when you said you're going to show up. If you can't show up, you tell the employer ahead of time that boss, Madam, blah blah blah, I

won't be able to come on Friday because XYI mean things happen. I can't come on Friday because my house flooded, God forbid, or Popsy died or you know, this or this or that or that or, OK, they snatched my back so I don't have TFA or something. But call ahead of time. You don't just take mental health days or you don't just resign without telling anybody. It's absolute madness, absolute madness. OK, so next. OK, it's advising people.

No, Madam. I mean, she did something that was really, really nice because she gave them salary. And once in a while she was also sorry. One moment. Sorry about that. I record these things on my phone and the notification came in. I just wanted to be sure what's up because, you know, now this is how I make a living. So if I'm making a podcast and somebody calls because I want to give me money, you better believe I'm going to pause,

pause the recording, you know, deal with them first, collect deposit, and then I'll get back to you guys. Where was I? So what I mean, but I mean, I did was she used to give them extra money, you know, stuff like that. So we know, bless our heart, my mom and I was trying to do the right thing. But when you hire people, this is the best way to look at it. Don't give people a wage, a salary that is unrealistic. And then every two, two weeks,

you're now adding something. Or I take 500 or I take recharge card, take this, take that. When you're dealing with sales people, just give them a living wage straight from the beginning so that there's no excuse. What is a living wage? It depends. A living wage in Abuja is different from living wage in Kano. Because I remember when I was serving in Kano, the guy whose house I was squatting in, I said I wanted to contribute to the house rent because the guy had a 5 bedroom, house was 5 bedrooms.

So I said look, this nice house, everything ought to contribute. The guy said look, there's no need. I said Sir, please on the country we said, look, I don't understand, you're coming from Lagos and you know that it was in Lagos we pay millions, 1,000,000 millions for this kind of house. But here there's no deed. I paid for three years. I said, OK Sir, I'm just curious, how much was it? He said this five bedroom house I've been, how much do you think it is?

So back then serving, I just tried to use like Lagos. I, I said, OK, I think it should be like 1.5, maybe 1.8, you know, he laughed. He said no, that this, this place, what I paid was 150,000 for a year. I said yeah, they say yeah but 150,000. But Kano is an easy place to live in. Now this was 2008, one hour serving of 2007, 2008. So please don't go to Kano. I'll be looking for a House of 150K. Now what I'm telling you was a long time ago.

I'm just saying that coming from Lagos, I expected the house rent to be like 1.51.82 M as per his five bedroom in in the centre of town. But what he paid was 150 K. So cost of living back then in Kano was easier than cost of living in Lagos or Abuja. So living wage depends where are you, what is the industry? Then there's also legislation on living wage, minimum wage. So if you take all these factors into the account, what does the government, what does the law say that minimum wage is supposed to be?

Which city do we live in? What is realistic? You know, stuff like that. They might now round it up. Use your church mind, use human kindness, you know, just round it up, you know, milk of human kindness, round it up, make sure it's a living wage. But this whole thing of you have sales people and then today you say I take recharge card, tomorrow you say take, go and buy bread. Next tomorrow you say go and take, go and buy a car.

After that you say, we'll take this your transport. And so none of that, just give them living wage. Bam, one time. Dealing with sales people is not the same thing as dealing with an accountant or dealing with a lawyer or dealing with a medical doctor is not the same. Our mind frame is different, Our world view is different, personalities are different. So when you're dealing with sales people, stop it. Stop all this extra, extra,

extra, extra, extra. Stop all this handout. Just give them living wage one time, manage them. Now you go do your job. Although traditionally this is what is done. You give them a base fee, which is not much, then, you know, compensate them whenever they do something that has a big upside. In other words, traditionally you might say, OK, architect, your staff. Let's say you run an architectural firm. OK. No. How will I put it?

Yeah, let's say you run the architect. No, let's go back to the painting. So you have an accountant on staff because you sell paint. So traditionally, maybe your accountant, you pay your accountant 250K every month fixed. Because of that, you think you can pay your sales staff 250K every month fixed. Well, there are some play. There's some parts of the world in West, in the West, North America particularly where people are trying out that experiment.

So I'm watching to see how it goes and I'll let you guys know. But traditionally what you do is the sales person will now have a low base. The base is just shall let them have credit, let them have TP, you know, let them have something to eat. But then the big money is going to come when they close the deal. So accountant, you can be paying the accountant 350K every month, but the sales people, you can say, look, we're giving you a base of 150 K every month.

Every single time you close a deal, you're getting 10% on that deal. So that's what motivates sales people. So the salesperson is collecting 150K every month at the end of the year. That means the base is as one point something happy. And I'm not good at math. So that's one point something as a base. But every single time you close the deal, that's 10%. So the salesperson can go out and find business or maybe like 2 M and they give him 10% of that.

Two M is 10% of 2 million should be what? What is that like 200,000 or something? When do you get my point? So there's the base, but then if they work very hard, they make plenty of money. If they don't work very hard, they don't make much money. So traditionally that's how sales people are compensated. But either way, it is not a good idea to be dashing sales people money and to be giving them things on a It's not a good idea to be giving sales people money that is not a reward or things that they have not earned.

Yes. So if you want to see other accountants, well, don't know, take this one go and buy small shops. You know that's different. But for your sales team, if you're dropping stuff, you should be tied to output, you should be tied to merit, you should be tied to reward. Yes, you want to be kind, but I'm just letting you know that your accountant is not the same as your as your sales person. So this whole thing of sales people taking their owners for granted when you try to be kind,

these are some of the ways where we start seeing trouble. So if you're going to give them a salary, just make sure that it is a living wage one time, bam. And then there's no take this, top up this, this, this, not that. Give them a living wage and manage them or do the traditional thing, which is give them a low base and then give them high upside that will motivate them to sell more like an insurance because I tried selling insurance for a bit.

In insurance, depending on the firm you work for, you find that the base is rubbish. Maybe it's like 50 KA month or 100 KA month or something like that, but it's not much. Very low base. But then the commissions are very, very sweet. So there's some people who don't even know what the base is because for them, Commission, Commission, Commission, that is what they're chasing. So there's some industries like that, that some people don't even know their base because the Commission is what they're after.

So there's some people who live that way that maybe in January commissions can bring in 500 K, maybe in February, 200 K in March, maybe one point something, you know, yes, it's up and down and up and down, but that's what motivate them, motivates them. Now this is the difference. An accountant will never work that way. An accountant will say, look, give me my money, 350K flat January, February, March, April, May all the way to December.

A salesperson is OK with making 2 million in January, excuse me, two M in January, then maybe 200K in February and maybe nothing in March, but then maybe in June 700 K and maybe in July another one M. So for sales people, they're OK up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down, no problem. Feast and farming sales people used to it. Other people, they just want their money. So a doctor, you can't pay a doctor on Commission. A doctor will say look I don't care how many clients I see pay me my salary.

So in January if I saw 400 clients, I don't care pay me my 500K. If in February I only saw two clients, I don't care pay me my 500K. I'm not in control of who comes into this hospital or not. My own shy is my salary is 500 K every month. So for sales people, that's how it works. Either give them a living wage one time and stop all of these dashing, dashing, dashing, or let it be a low base and plenty of upside. But either way, you can dash all the employees stuff, but sales people don't be dashing them things that they haven't earned.

So let me skip this whole part about training. Well, because we're almost at 30 minutes and let me, so I, let me look at my notes and go to a specific advice that I had for Madam Amina, people who have been in that situation. So unfortunately, Madam Amina, when she wanted to pay the house rent of this girl, one of her team members has said, Madam, you know, free this team, blah, blah, blah. But I mean, I decided to do the nice thing.

And it is my prayer that God will continue to bless and continue to reward Nigerian employees like Madam Amina, who have their interests, the interests of their employee at heart and who go out of their way to make sure that people are settled. You know personally that they're settled, family issues are settled, all kinds of things are settled. So May God bless Madam Amina for that. But Madam Amina and other people who are like her, please pay attention to your team when it comes to character assessment,

especially if you consider yourself to be a nice person. Now, my mom likes to say that we are born in twos. She says that because I'm one way and my brother is another way. And my mom says that the reason why God made us like that is it evens things out. It balances things out. And it makes sense cause I've noticed that in family matters or in business, there's some things that I will catch. And my brother, my brother, I

will not click. And I think that, you know, for, for him, some things, you know, it will click. But for me, I will now go and rock it. So there's a tension that kind of evens itself out. The same thing in marriage. There are some things that my wife will not see that me I will see and I stop her from running into trouble. And then there's some things that my wife will see and I will say, I beg you over acting. And then when I go and hang in front, she will now keep quiet.

Should not be looking at me with side eye. And I say yeah, I know, I know you want me. I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You said no, I'm not saying anything. No, I'm not saying anything. I'm not saying anything. No. What are you telling me sorry for? I know it was your choice now that you made your choice. So what are you telling me sorry for? So anyway, that's how my wife is. She can be petty sometimes. So it's the same thing.

If you think you're a nice person like Madam Amina, please pay attention to the people on your team who are Bulldogs. If you're saying you want to help this person, you want to help this person, and then the Bulldogs on your team are saying no, not this person. Even if they can't give you a convincing answer, there's something that they're seeing. So for me, I find it really interesting that there's somebody on her team who's not as nice as she.

And when she wanted to help out two of the sales people, the person said Madam, not these two. Pay attention to people like that. So trust members of your team when it comes to character assessment, especially if you think you're one of those people who is very nice. If you have Bulldogs on your team, if you have devils on your team, pay attention to the Devils. You know, you you're an Angel. There's some things you're not seeing the devils, they're saying some things.

So if you want to help somebody like this, you want to do this thing and then two or three of the devils on your team say, ah, Madam, no, no, no, no, no. Is it in case anybody else but knowing itchy, just trust them. There's something that's seen about in kitchen that you you're not seeing. All right. So Madam, I mean, in my own opinion, especially since experience has showed twice that this guy's assessment was correct, in the future, when this guy says something about a sales person's character just just taking on board, he'll be 100% all the time, correct all the time.

But just taking on board then for if you're in, Madam, I'm in a situation now what, to be honest. OK, let's just go through this now. What's the recourse #1 lawyer. But to be honest, the whole thing about lawyer is cost. You have to pay the lawyer. Even if the lawyer is your friend, at least you have to mobilize the guy. Like, OK, look, this thing you're going to go to court is going to be, you want to spend a lot of time before the matter is called and everything.

So if nothing else, you mobilize the guy with something. Let not be as if he's totally wasting his time. Yeah, he wants to help you. But sure, you have to mobilize the lawyer. So this cost then there is time because lots of other people are also trying to get things done in the court system. So your matter is going to be added to a queue and you know it's first come first serve. So you go down, you sit down, your matter might be called at 9:00 in the morning, your matter might also be called at 5:30 in the evening.

You have no idea. You have no control shy. The thing is if the court opens 830, you have to be there at 8:30 because first come first serve, the call your matter, you're not there. You know they skip you. So you have to be there 8:30, if you're lucky, you might be there until 5:30 in the evening because you're trying to get that listing closed. Then also, when it comes to timing, the courts like to be very fair. So they would like to listen to everybody.

So if Madam Amina goes to court and files proceedings because she's trying to recover house rent and stuff from this lady, the court will give Madam Amina and her team leave to serve the other party. Leave to serve the other party just means you have to tell these other people that Luco, I'm taking you to court. Come and answer the query. Now back when I was in school, I'm not sure what the rules are. I think it was three weeks that you had to serve the other party.

So in other words, what that means is if I go to court January 1st and I'm taking you listening to the podcast right now, I'm taking you, dear listener, I'm taking you to court. The court will give me until I say 3 weeks, January 1st, 3 * 721. So the court will give me till January 21, give you to January 21 to show face. So in other words, I'll take the paper and I won't drop it with you when I'll be waiting for you until January 21st to see if you show.

If you do not show on January 21st, we now have to apply to the court for substituted service. So substituted service just means, I mean, trying to hold this guy sharp, but I can't find this guy. So let's let's notify him some other place, let's go and catch him somewhere else or something. That's what not substituted service and other these other kinds of service. That's just what it means. So in other words, I can go to court January 1st, but then all of January and February, we still have not forced you.

We still have not compelled you to come to court. So you see how time starts wasting. You can start the thing January, but maybe you don't even show up in court until April or March. And the fact that you guys showed up in court in March does not mean that this matter will be decided this year in 2025 S when it comes to legal actions, you know, sometimes this is where I tell people that, look, it's costly this time involved.

What's the possibility of you winning? You know, these are the things. So like I told you guys on the podcast, when moms you work with quadrant. So it was no quadrant. Yeah, I think it was a quadrant. And what they were being old was 7:00 AM. By the time they spoke to lawyers, they saw that legal fees and law was like 3.5. And that doesn't mean you're going to win. And that doesn't mean you collected this year. Also, just about the I beg doesn't make sense.

The biggie is 7 M. We're trying to use 3.5 to go and chase 7 M like doesn't make sense. And then they met a factor. Factors are people who buy your liabilities. If you have basic, the fact that this person will say, OK, no problem. How much is this basic worth? OK, it's worth this amount. I will buy this basic from you give you the money. Anything I make on top is my own. So like in this case, what the factor took for that 7 million,

I think the factor give them I think 4 point something. So OK, this is the problem Abby. No problem. Give me all the paperwork. I will chase it myself. You take this 4.5 in cash that is your own. If I'm able to chase this thing and I'm able to recover the seven M in full, then seven M -. 4.52 point 5. That 2.5 is his own profit. For those of you who are hearing this for the first time, you believe me the way you're confused, That is how I was confused to the way I was hearing it.

I was like, so there are people who, that is their business. They go and look around for who is in basic. Then they buy the basic from you, give you discounts and then try and make the money on top. I, I just, I don't know, I was confused. But anyway, it's a thing. Discounts, factors, that's what they're called Factors are in Nigeria, factors are in America, factors are in the UK, they're all over the world. So there are people who make their living that way, but you will never catch me doing that kind of business.

No way, no way, no way. I like my piece too much. So that's how they settled it. They made a factor instead, who gave them 4.5 clean and went with it. So if the guy was able to recover the 7 million, then it was a good deal. That means he made 2.5 on top the whole thing. So yeah, that's my advice. When it comes to lawyers, it's only a matter of cost. How much are you going to spend? How much time do you have? What's the probability of winning these things?

So it depends. But Madam Mamina, yeah, that's an option that's available. Go and get a lawyer and go after this babe. So at least, if nothing else, the money that you spend in house rent, at least you collect that one. Then I prefer soft touch. Since you settled this babe's house rent, my guess is that Madam Mamina was in touch with the landlord. So you can call the lawyer. You know, human touch, soft touch, you can achieve a lot.

Hey, Olga. So I said Lord, the landlords. Olga landlord. How now this is me person that paid the rent for in kitchen. Yeah, two months ago. So Madam. Oh yes, yes, yes. Nice to meet you. Hope there's no problem. So Yeah, So there's a problem. Have you noticed that in Katie's no longer in that house? In Katie's not there. Yeah. So in case she has left Abuja, she said that her mother told her to come back to the village,

say OK, no wonder. No wonder I've not been seeing the lights on at the property. Maybe we even go to the property. You check, you now see that property is vacant and then you reason with the landlord that look on the landlord, you know, teachers done me strong thing. So this money that I paid for higher rent, you know, I beg, I want the money back. No human touch. You know, this way that you can reason some of these things,

there's some things you can work out. The landlord might say, ah, Madam, that's 2 million you gave me. I have spent you 2. Then you guys can now enter into a discussion. OK, You know what? Since this house is vacant, it means you can still rent it out again. You rented it out at 2,000,000. If you rent it out at 2 million again, then you can give me my money back like that or you can give me partial refund like that. You know, So I'm not saying that there are soft touches, soft touch ways that you can worry about getting your money.

By the way, I'm not giving legal advice here. So if you're in this sort of situation, you know, speak to your lawyer. But I'm just trying to let you know that legal recourse now, one day you can go to the court. Soft touch, that one is also there. If you're in this situation, you can see how you can partially recover, partially recover something. Even if you want to talk to the landlord and you get half the money back, the landlord says,

OK, you know what, let's see if I can write this thing again. He rents it out. He gives you one M. It's better than nothing. It's better than losing 2,000,000 outright. Then also I did some research. If harmonize a Muslim, they are. If both parties are Muslims, there's a Center for Alternative Dispute Resolution run by the Sharia Court of Appeal that is also another Ave. that is available there. Alternative dispute resolution just means this quarrel that we have.

Let us solve it, but let's not enter court. That's just what alternative dispute resolution mean by the weekly. Those of you who are lawyers, I'm sure some of you will be angry saying that look, my definitions are being too simple. Yes, my definitions are being too simple, but I'm just trying to explain things in a way that ordinary non lawyer people will understand because alternative dispute resolution eventually, at some point you have to get to the court to enforce the matter.

But it's it's it's a much quicker process of trying to solve quarrel. So lawyers, please don't be angry or let me just educate my people right now who are non lawyers. Alternative dispute resolution does means this quarrel between us. Let us solve this quarrel, but let us not enter court. So Madam Amina, if you are Muslim, I was doing both of you have to be Muslims to go to the. Set up for alternative dispute resolution that's under the Sharia Court of Appeal, abuse the Sharia Court of Appeal.

I can't remember, sorry, forgive me, but Sharp Google, if you're in that situation, then there's also the National Industrial Court of Nigeria. They have offices in Abuja and Lagos. They have an ADR center, alternative dispute resolution center. Remember, ADR just means this quarrel that we have, let us solve it without going to court. So the National Industrial Court, they have a center where you people will just step aside and go and solve this thing.

It handles disputes between employees and employers. So Madam Amina and staff, you guys can go and query your stuff. You can go and talk about health and safety and welfare and all these sorts of things. Now, the only thing I didn't do in this research is I didn't research whether it's available to big businesses or because there's some things that work best for, you know, big, big businesses, maybe like Zenith Bank kind of business, you know,

millions and millions of employees and they don't quite work for small situations where, you know, you're selling paint in your shop is you and you have 10 sales people. So I didn't do that. But I just wanted to say that beyond this whole thing of sorry, let me check my notes. Hiring, right, incentivizing people and training people. If you have already entered, you're now stuck with this troublesome sales person, there are things that you can do.

You can go meet your lawyer. There are ways you can do soft torch outside of court. And then there's alternative dispute resolution where you try and settle the matter with trained legal professionals. But you guys are not doing it in court. That is what makes ADR run a whole lot smoother because the person who is trying to settle the matter is a lawyer. So you know, the, the person, the arbitrator or the mediator, the person is able to think quickly that OK, legally this was involved, financially, this is what is involved, you know,

this and this and that and you'll be able to solve things a whole lot smoother. So that's all for today's episode. It's close for 5 minutes. Let me just bring that to a close. But sure, bottom line, my prayer goes out to Madam Amina and other people in that situation because currently I'm working with a client who is based in Benin who is also dealing with one of these sorts of issues. You know, the person has said, look, I'm tired.

I'm going, they've disappeared. Meanwhile, you pay salary and you know, things like this just hanging in the balance. Now, this is not what I do professionally. What I do is I solve sales problems. I help you to increase the profitability of your, of your team, the effectiveness of your sales team. I help them handle conversations better. But I'm knowledgeable on this, on some stuff. And then of course, I know some other professionals that I can refer you to because it's normally in this business that you're doing something and maybe there's an accounting challenge.

I'm not an accountant. I might know one or two other accountants. I said, OK, go and talk to this person. Go and talk to this person. They will help you out. So it's also the same thing. We're also trying to help this guy reason this thing and come to a solution. So my heart goes out to Madam Amina and other nice employers out there because the problem is this. By the time somebody does you strong team one time like Madam Amina does you strongly again two times like Madam Amina.

If it happens the third time, you know, happens that people like Madam Amina might now become those employers that everybody hates, you know, like that tight fisted, they don't trust, you know, they're wicked, they're inhumane. You know, sometimes this is how these people are born. And This is why we, we ought to be careful those of us who are employees because sometimes we are creating the very employers that we do not like.

There was one lady like that who used to come clean my house. This was a long, long, long, long, long time ago. What we negotiated was, I can't remember what we negotiated anyway, but she used to do anyhow. Anyhow, when she went outside and she went do I meet somebody was going to be paying her 35 KA month. This was a long time ago. I mean, now 35 KA month is not living wage anymore. So this was long before Fioscasity increased, long before this, long before that.

You know, in fact, somebody might even say that for a cleaning lady, if she negotiates 35 with somebody and negotiates, you know, 35 and she's cleaning for people's houses, that it might not be a bad deal after all. So she now negotiated 35 with somebody, but that person required her to work Monday to Sunday from 7:00 up until 6:00. And if she came in at seven O 5, the person started reducing the money. Meanwhile, me, the amount we negotiated, I can't remember sharp, but I think was maybe like maybe close to like 20.

I only wanted her to come once a week. I know once a week I only wanted her to come like around 9-10. And you know, I ordered her to leave the house, you know, before the kids come home by 2-3, you know, but somehow she thought where was I? Anyway, I guess what I'm just trying to say is that employers who end up being very strict, very wicked, very whatever, you know, I guess the one always born that way. So that Madam who said, look,

it's 35,000, you must be here from 7:00 to 6:00. It's probably because these sorts of things happen to her. So please, while we're dealing with employers, let's try and be on our best behavior. Let's not try and create any Frankenstein's. And if you're like Madam, I mean, you're trying to do what's right. May God continue to bless you, provide for you, and help your business to grow. But also you try and do one or two things to make sure that you don't get hurt in the business.

So hire the right people, incentivize them well, train them well. Pay attention to your team when it comes to character issues. Let's see what else? And then remember, you always have recourse to the legal system. Lawyer, it was a criminal matter. You also have recourse to the police. And then there's a way that we can solve things. I'm out of court. So that's it for today. Thank you very much for your time and attention.

If you'd love to connect with me for a strategy session, the business audit or you have some questions you'd like me to answer, the number is 08064662140. The country code is +234. For those of you who are not Nigerian, that's my WhatsApp number as well, the name to look for if you want to connect with me on LinkedIn, establish my IED. Thank you very much for your time and attention. I'll catch you guys in the next episode.

And remember, if you're don't like Spotify, if you're a YouTube person, just check for me on YouTube. You find the channel there. All 1050 something videos are currently up and available. So thanks for your time and attention. I'll catch you guys in the next episode.