How to Pivot from Small Talk to Sales Without Being Awkward

Apologies before we begin, because today's podcast episode is going to be a very noisy one. I'm making today's recording at home in the villa. The whole family is around. I can't find a quiet place to record in the house and the kids are watching TV. So there's going to be noise in the background. And then plus, you know, there hasn't been light. So generators just all over the place. All right, now what we're going to look at the on the podcast today is when to transition from how's the family to this is what I do.

I repeat, whenever we're having a conversation with a potential customer, with a partner, with a stakeholder, with a, you know, whoever, typically in the Nigerian context, you know, we start off with some small talk like how's the family? How is this? How is that, you know, Yoruba people, Ekujoko Baoni this, Baoni that. You know how some people. Yeah, yeah, this. Yeah, yeah, that. Yeah, yeah. You know, whatever. Oh, boy, Wedding day now.

Long time. How's the family? How's the kids? How's the wife? You know, all that kind of talk. So when we're in a social situation, how do we trans transition from how's the family? Then next thing you know, enter. This is what I do. Buy my product, buy my service. Join my this. Join my that now. If you've been listening to the podcast for the last week, you will see that it's kind of like a follow up question from some of the stuff we have already been discussing.

And it's a very valid question to ask because for some of us who have, you know, you have something that you're selling and you're talking to someone, you know, we're keen to be able to get to the point quickly because we don't want to waste the other person's time. And of course, we don't want to waste our own time as well. So for some of us trying to sell in the Nigerian context, we're trying to build rapport, but we are also acutely aware of the fact that, you know, it's time to eventually we have to, you know, move on and start talking about business, you know, sharp,

Sharp. By the way, if you love this topic or these kinds of issues around selling, persuading, then subscribe to the podcast on spotifying Apple. What else? YouTube or any player of your choice. Then if you'd love to connect, my name is Tavishima Ayede. I am the host of the show. I'm a former lawyer turned business consultant and I'm the host of this podcast, which is Africa's most prolific business podcast. So this is your first time of listening.

Stay subscribed because I can assure you, we talk about really, really juicy relevant stuff here for Nigerian business people every other day. I can't promise you that I'm going to be here every single day. But so far, over the last five years or 5 1/2 years, I've been doing about maybe 3-4 episodes a week. So I'm here quite a lot. In fact, I was chatting with someone much earlier today who was travelling from what I can't remember, was it from Lagos to Benin or some other journey like that.

Anyway, the journey lasted 5 hours and he was able to listen to my podcast all throughout the trip. He was able to do some personal development, you know, some business development and he was able to do that because over the last 5 1/2 years, I have garnered over 1300 episodes. So this is your first time listening to the podcast. This is a treasure trove. Stay subscribed. All right, now back to the question. You're chatting with someone.

How do you transition? How do you move? How do you change gear? How do you slide from how's the family? The next thing you're saying, buy my product, buy my thing, subscribe to my whatever, join my this, this, this, download my, that, that, that. How do you make the transition? So like I said at the top of the podcast, all this how how's the family and what not, It's just normal small talk in the Nigerian context. And the goal of it is we're trying to achieve some commonality.

Now the exact phrase, sorry, commonality, How will I explain it now? OK. Commonality is when two people are having a conversation, two people are engaged in a relationship and they feel like I understand you, They feel like I know you. They feel like I like you, They feel like you're a reasonable somebody. They feel like I can give this person a chance. So when we're chatting with people, how's the family? Ya ya ya ya ya this, ya ya this bow on it, that's bow on in call.

This one, this one, that one, all that kind of talk. That's what we're trying to do. We're trying to achieve rapport, We're trying to achieve commonality. Now that exact expression, how's the family? Typically it applies to people of a certain age. So for me, I've been married for a while, 15 years. I've got a few kids. So someone like me, I can roll in and say, you know, what's the family? Sorry, how's the family? Now some of you, you know,

17252830, you know, probably not married, so maybe you can't say how's the family, but that's not a problem. At the end of the podcast episode, I've made a list of a couple of things that you can say, but either way, you're so going to have to work through the problem of this question that you're starting off with to build rapport and then how you now transition to buy my stuff. But I just wanted to let you know that how's the family normal small talk, the goal,

build rapport, establish commonality. Now, I've said on the podcast before, and I want to say it again for those of you who are listening for the first time, when it's time to establish rapport, establish rapport, establish commonality quickly, and then move on, some of you dwell. I made a podcast episode where someone established rapport, but then she dwelt on it too long and it spent 45 minutes talking about family, talking about kids, talking about career frustrations, talking about all kinds of things.

And the guy said, you know what? I think I can secure a meeting for next week. And you know, they never did secure the meeting. It could be down to any possible number of reasons, but one of them was the adult on the whole rapport thing. Too long. And if you stay in that phase, you don't quite move things along. It's kind of like a confused business stage where you know, like, I like this person. We got on well, We chatted about family for one hour or we chatted about chatted about Arsenal United or Manchester United or Bolton Wanderers or whatever, or we chatted about the government for one hour and this guy is a cool guy or this is a cool girl, but you don't quite move on to the business agenda.

So when it comes to rapport or commonality is to establish it sharp, sharp and then move. So back to this house, the family, you say, how's the family? The goal is to establish some commonality around spouse and kids. So I say how's the family? I say, ah, my brother, we do already. You can see that we've established something like me. I'm a young man with a family. You, Ma, you're a young man with a family. From there you guys can talk about a couple of things, Kids,

schooling, because eventually number of kids will come up for me. I have a few, not too many. There's some people who have like 5 or 6. And then of course, we move into the obvious six children. How do you cope in this economy? You say my brother. And then you guys continue to talk. You see commonality. Eventually we might talk about spouse, career, What of Madam? How is she? What does she do? How's our work hours, our business, you know, blah, blah,

blah. But once we establish these main things, have a family. You have a family, I've got kids, you've got kids. How's the spouse? You guys are coping, Abby? Everybody's in good health. Once you establish that, bam, move on. If you can establish it in 5 minutes, move on. You can establish it in 12 minutes, move on. Hi, if you are taking, I don't know, maybe like 30 minutes, 45 minutes, my own opinion like you're dwelling, you're confusing the lines.

You know, we're not here to make friends. I don't feel bad because the other person that you're having a conversation with is perfectly aware that you are here to talk business. So when you transition, as long as if they'll be like from where to where we're talking family, next thing you're saying buy my stuff. So it's not as if the guy is going to be offended. The person knows. I mean, come on, we all know why we're here.

We already have enough friends. We already have enough family members. So somebody's running up to you in the club and you know, you guys are talking and everything like there's some agenda. There is an agenda. In fact, I think the average person is even kind of waiting to see like, wow, what's going on? Like when will this guy show his hand about, you know, why he's rolling up on me or why she's rolling up on me, why we're existing, why we're talking.

So don't worry, don't be afraid. Establish commonality, Bah, Bah, Bah, and then move. So transition. That's why some of you are afraid. How do you go from how's the family? Next you say buy my stuff. Now there are different rules. Sorry, not rules. How will I put it? Let me say guidelines, because when it comes to sales, we can't talk about rules per SE. We can talk about guidelines. We can talk about principles that have to be applied in different contexts.

So one of them is Zig Ziglar's Pogo. Of course, we all know who Zig Ziglar Ziglar is. No need to explain who the guy is. Or for those of you who are here in the name for the first time, Zig Ziglar was a was an American sales trainer. Now he had this tool or this conceptual framework which he called Pogo. It's an acronym Pogo and that stands for Person, Organization, Goals and Obstacles. So again, Pogo stands for Person, Organization Goals and then Obstacles.

And this was Zig Ziglar Frameworks. Now, if you'd like to hear some more about this, you know, just go and check Zig Ziglar YouTube. You can just go to YouTube and type in Zig Ziglar Pogo. And then you see some more material on that because you know, this is me now trying to summarize Zig Ziglar's framework, but you know, it'll be best if you hear a direct live from the horse's mouth himself. All right now a person that is what you ask questions about the person's background, the person's role, you know, things like that.

We've already touched on some of this where you're trying to build rapport and where you're trying to establish a connection. So that is this whole. How is the family bounding car or your own car. Mommy uncle, Daddy, uncle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this yeah, yeah. That, you know, on all those other things, but we're how far now we're in the, you know, happy new year, blah, blah, blah, you know, go, go do it for us, you know, new year, new days, new.

So you understand. So that's what you do in that person's stage. Ask questions about the person's background, ask questions about the person's job role, ask questions about the person's personal life, you know, all kinds of things. The goal is rapport. And remember, don't dwell at this rapport stage. Don't spend 30 minutes talking about the person's life, how both of you went to the same school, how both of you have married to similar women and how like just look, you're not here to make friends.

The person that you're talking to, the person who wants to make money, the person who wants to solve their own problems. So the quicker you even transition to business of the better. So 2 of you know what's up. By the way, this also applies, you know, whether you're male or female. Then next is an organization. So whether the person is an employee or the person has a business of their own, they're an entrepreneur, ask some questions about the company, ask some questions about the person's role within the company, ask some questions about the nature of the business, ask some questions about the kind of customers that they try to target, you know,

stuff like that. You know, you go from person and then you slide into some business oriented conversations, but you start talking about the person's business first or the person's career first, not about you. So I repeat, you start person. When it comes to person, it's not about you. You're talking about the other person's background, their role, their, this, their, that, their, that. Then from there you slide into business or career, but from the level of the other person.

Also, you're an entrepreneur. How long have you been in business? Oh, blah blah blah, or used to be based in Lagos, you're currently in Abuja. Or how come why they switch and they continue to ask questions or what niche or customers do you serve, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then eventually you start talking about the other person's goals. Remember Zig Ziglar said Pogo, that is Pogo person, organization, goals and then obstacles.

So the goals, now you're trying to figure out what the person is trying to accomplish, you know, personally or what the person is trying to accomplish business wise. This is where you transition after the person has spoken about what he's trying to accomplish personally or trying to accomplish in business. That is where you know, moving to obstacles. Obstacles are you talk about the pain points, the frustrations, the friction, the blockage, the impediments, the, you know,

whatever, whatever that the person is facing, you're trying to achieve their goals. And this is where you now slide in. Once the person has spoken about their obstacles, they beat. This is the stage where you now say of Voila or some of us like you say in Nigeria, Viola. So whether you say Viola or voila, that's the stage right now. Say OK, now me, what I do is XYZ. How about next week you and I hook up so that we can discuss how my XYZ can help you achieve ABC.

You can see that now the transition is smooth. You know a bit about the person, you know about the person's business, about the person's organizations. You know what they're trying to achieve, and you know their frustration. You guys have now been talking for 45 minutes. All you're just saying is, OK, cool. If this is a significant enough problem and if ioffer ABC, how about I boss you next week, Abby, I'll go to your office next week or you come to my studio next week or after church, let's just hang out and then we'll discuss and see how my blah blah blah solution can help you achieve this and this and this and that and that.

That's it. Or you say, oh, OK, since you're facing blah blah blah, I know someone who does XYZ. And then the goal is to try and make a referral. And then like most Nigerians do, you try and collect your 10%. By the way, I'm not saying it's by force that you collect 10%, but I'm just trying to say is that for those of you who feel as if you must collect something, you know, don't feel bad. You're trying to make it worth your while, but just be careful.

Sure, because there's one guy who hooked me up to a high net worth individual a very long time ago when I was new in business. And what we agreed on was 20%. Now, I quarrel for the guy that looked at 20%, man, he's high. But the first person he introduced me to, what we ended up doing was about 500 K. So I thought, you know, it's all right because I was still keeping close to 400 and I gave the guy 100 something, you know?

But I was like, well, you know, it's OK. But I told the guy that look, guy, I love your clients, but I'm only so 20% man, he's high. But the guy didn't listen, and I don't think you like the fact that I complained. He tried to work with other people and Shah, it didn't work out. But when it comes to this percentage thing, you know, let's be realistic here. If you're collecting 20 percent, 30%, you know, how much is somebody going to keep at the end of the day?

So these are some of the things that determine whether referral partnerships can be successful or not. And also because sometimes if you're charging people 20 or 30%, they try to now mark up their own prices so that at the end of the day, they'll keep the one that they normally they would have wanted to keep from the beginning. And then of course, you know, it makes the sale an uncompetitive one because everybody shops for prices.

So if the potential buyer, if the potential customer, the person that you're referring to already knows that in the open market is normally like 500 K and then you send somebody that way and then the person is saying 600 or 650, you know, you're already making it difficult for the other person. So if you're going to introduce someone and then put something on top, just, you know, look around, check your industry and then do something reasonable.

So my professional background, like I said, was in law. And so for lawyers, you know, 10% is like a traditional or something, you know, I introduce you to the buyer of the land, you know, blah, blah, blah, facilitate one or two things. And at the end of the day, the person transfers 70 million to you and you just be a nice person and you transfer me a 10% and we call it even. We're good. And I continue to send you people and I don't chase you and you continue to send me 10%.

By the way, I'm not saying anybody paid me 10% or 70 million. You know, that would be nice if anybody wants to. That's why I give my phone number at the beginning and at the end of every episode, end of every episode, so that if there's anything good that comes up, you know, I like your boy because I'm going to make some money as well. OK, so where was I? OK, so at the beginning I mentioned that not everybody has a family.

So not everybody's going to be able to start off with that whole how's the family? How's the wife? How's the kids? How's this? How's that? So what we can do instead is the different things that you can say, you know, if you don't have a family, the different talk tracks that you can use, but pick whatever talk track applies to you. One of them is traffic, another one is weather. So for those of us who schooled in the UK already used to the weather thing because the weather in the UK, you know,

can't be terrible. So I was in Aberdeen, in Aberdeen it rained all the time. And then I had some family in London and in London, you know, weather can be bright today and it can be gloomy tomorrow. So weather is a big deal for them then. Currently right now I'm in Makudi in Villa for Halls and the weather here is terrible is 40 something degrees centigrade as almost close to boiling point. So everybody that we're meeting up with anybody that calls us that's exactly what we say is how oh boy, I saw an NTA.

They say weather there is is 4141 how they cope and you know, you just so weather is 1 traffic is another those of you who live in Lagos, I'm sure you guys, I'm sure you guys, you know, get to talk about that a lot like or more presidency day town. You see the traffic go slow this that that that that. So so traffic, weather that's sort of stuff you can use to build some commonality. If you don't have a family. Then there's also industry gist.

Like I was talking to one of my former classmates today and he currently he's a partnership with some people and they organize the. Nigerian Energy Investment Summit or something like that. So if you are in that space, for instance, and you're talking to someone, you guys can be talking about, you know, all those sorts of things like, hey, what's up, blah, blah, blah. Federal government says they're introducing this sort of policy,

that sort of policy to, and I put it now, you know, to incentivize the production of solar, solar cells in Nigeria instead of importing, you know, so that's kind of small talk that you can use. It's a industry gist that you can use in your own, in your own industry, assuming you don't have a family. Then there's also sports and culture. People do that a lot as well, you know, Manchester United, Bolton Wanderers, Arsenal up,

Gunners, you know, blah blah, blah, all that sort of stuff. And then just popular gist going around. Like I mentioned, I'm currently at home and it turns out that one of the senior politicians in Benue state, I won't call the guy's name, although we all know who he is. Apparently he's about to enter into his fourth marriage with a woman who has been married like 5 times. And anyway, let's just say he's been making some interesting gist, you know, when you come across some people.

So for those of us who have families, you know, how's your family? You can use that commonality small talk, you don't have a family, there's traffic, there's weather, there's industry gist, there's sports and culture, there's popular gist, there's all kinds of things that you can use to build some commonality. But just remember when you start off with how's the family or guy, this traffic is mad. Or did you hear presidency said so so so and so or up Gunners up Man U or they say 2 face, 2 face and in wife the non scatter.

Whatever it is, you have to be able to transition. And one transition tool that was spoken about is Zig Ziglar's Pogo. And remember Pogo is person, organization, goals and then obstacles. You start off with the person, talk about their background, their role, their whatever. Then you move on to organization. Sorry, one moment. OK, I'm back. Sorry about that. I had to attend to something quickly over here. OK, so if I remember correctly,

I think I was talking about how, OK, so if you don't have a family, we explored some options that you can use, but eventually you have to transition. And if you want to transition, just remember Zig Ziglar and remember Pogo person, organization, goals, obstacles. And remember, I've said this in the podcast lots of times before. A lot of these frameworks that I introduced to you guys over here on the podcast, I'm not introducing it because it's the best.

You can go somewhere else and you will find other frameworks that are going to help you transition. But I pick these ones just because they're simple, you know, 33 concepts, 33 words, 3-4 concepts, you know, once the thing begin to enter like 568101215. And believe me, there are really complicated frameworks out there. They are hard to remember and they'll be hard to do. And my focus on this podcast is to be practical and tactical.

I want you to have something that is easy to remember because easy to remember means easy to apply. See this Pogo something now, Pogo. Trust me, you can't forget Pogo. You're in a networking session, Pogo. You're in church, Pogo. You're in the office Pogo. You jam somebody in a taxi, Pogo. You jam your old classmates during school reunion Pogo. People are drinking at a beer bar, Pogo. Wherever you are, Pogo. Easy to remember Zig ziglars Pogo.

Zig ziglars Pogo. Person organization. Goal, obstacle. Anyhow, anyhow, you remember personal organization, even if you remember those two from there show you good a freestyle, but you know, eventually you land a plane. Easy to remember, it's easy to do. So if you find something much more sophisticated that you like, sure, no problem. Just make sure it's something that is easy to remember and easy to do. So. That is one tool that you can use to transition.

Just remember that when you are applying Zig, Ziglar's, Pogo or any other similar framework like this, it is always from the other person's perspective. So when it's person, the other person, the other person's background, the other person's role, organization, the other person's company, the other person's department, the other person's business, the other person's customers goals, what is the other person trying to accomplish?

Obstacles. What is blocking the other person's progress? What do they need to move their own ministry forward? It is only when you have established this, they can now say, guy, this is a problem that is facing a small thing. Now my own company, we do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. In fact, next week, just come to the office, me and project manager, we'll sit down with you 15 minutes. We should be able to sort you out.

Sharp, sharp, sharp. So that's how you make the transition. So thank you very much for listening. Remember, if you'd love to connect, my name is Tavishima IED. You can find me on LinkedIn. You can connect there or you can also send me a text message, a WhatsApp message, or call me on 080646621. Sorry about that. That's the alarm. Just wanted to make sure we didn't go across 30 minutes. So again, the phone number 08064662140.

Also remember I'm still talking to candidates for the training that were my partners are now organizing next year from the 12th to the 23rd of January 2026. The focus of the training is to make you sell better, make you sell more effectively over the phone. So how do you find clients? How do you talk to clients over the phone? How do you introduce yourself? How do you get the agenda going? How do you figure out what it is that they need?

If you have to make an effective proposal or presentation and do it remotely, how do you do that? How do you close the deal? How do you ask for the order? How do you nurture relationships? How do you get people to come back and buy again? So these are the sorts of things that we're going to be talking about come 12th of January to the 23rd of January 2020. Sixth, it's a 10 day intensive, so Monday to Friday, but then weekends are off.

No Saturday, no Sunday. Also, it's a pay training. Bear that in mind when you reach out for us to have that conversation. But then again, this is the reason why I say dealing with me is the best value that you are going to get so long as we're talking about business development consultants in Nigeria. Because your favorite influencer, your favorite celebrity, your favorite guru, your favorite whoever gates all their content, the only way that you can get time with them is if you pay them.

But for me, I have this free podcast. There's over 1300 episodes here. So if you want to come for the training, it's cool. You don't have the money for the training. No problem, stay subscribed here. Either way, you're getting value from me whether you drop money or whether you don't drop money. So thank you very much for your time and attention. I'll catch you all some other time.