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Hello and welcome to the show. Before we begin, the usual apologies, The kids are home, it's a weekend, so I expect to hear some interruptions in the background. Now today what I'm going to do is to share an interesting conversation that I had with a Prof. Well, actually he's not a Prof, but he's currently undertaking whatever program it is that wannabe professors or aspiring professors do and is currently at the Lagos State University in the Department of Mass Communication.
Now he reached out because he is working with someone who is into podcast production and he's been trying to develop a curriculum for a curriculum for podcasting that is going to be taught in the institution and hopefully in Nigerian universities. And his own primary concern in developing the curriculum is that they're going to have facets of it that are devoted to monetization for podcast audio producers and other audio producers at large.
And it turned out to be a really, really, really interesting conversation. Of course, he recorded parts of it that are going to be devoted towards his thesis or whatever it is that he plans to use it for. But I'm just over here to share the what is the part of the conversation that I can remember anyway. And it's something that I was happy about because for those of you who have been listening to the show for a while, you're aware that both my parents are professional journalists.
So my dad especially did, he had some courses in radio production from Nigerian Institute of Journalism and then also some diploma course in radio production while he he spent some time in London. And yeah, one part of the curriculum that is was missing was this whole thing of monetization, the business aspect basically because just like when I was in school, the same thing as when my father was in school. And OK, well, my grandfather didn't go to school.
So I'm second generation educated, but for the university education, higher education basically has been exposing people to a bunch of skills but not quite telling people how you're going to sell those skills in the real world. That's why because of that, I was really happy with having this conversation with the Prof By the way, he's not really a Prof as in he's getting ready to be a Prof, but I'll just keep calling him Prof for this episode.
But if you run into him, you know, don't address him as Prof yet so he doesn't get into trouble with his superiors. You know, let not be as if he's claiming what he doesn't have. It's just me calling him Prof. So, yeah, it's a conversation that a whole bunch of us need to be having. So whether you study architecture, whether you study audio production, whether you study law, whether you study dentistry, whether you study what's that one?
My father-in-law, he calls them doctors of mosquitoes. Guy, what are they called? Again? These are animal doctors. This thing that. Good luck. Jonathan, our former president, studied. What is it called? OK, I can't remember anyway. Well, people who are doctors for animals. So no matter what it is that you study, it'll be nice if we can start introducing aspects into the university curriculum so that people get a fair idea of when I finish this course and enter into the workforce, how am I going to look for employers or how am I going to look for clients or how am I going to build a business?
You know, just that next step forward so that people don't have to come to the job force like some of us do. And you come in and like, OK, I'm done with the school now what? So, yeah, what's an interesting conversation with Prof? I'm not going to use his his name because I didn't get his permission to do so. Before we go in, let me share what I'm listening to on Spotify. That's for those of you who want to broaden your musical palette.
And recently I've been listening to some old stuff. Well, at least more. You guys would consider it old listening to Redman and Method Man. Now Method Man, for those of you who I'll explain it. OK, well, Redman, Method Man, they're both African American rappers. They've been in the game for a while, as in for quite a while. Particularly Method Man, who came to fame with the group Wu Tang Clan was with Wu Tang. That is some real grimy,
experimental hip hop. So it's not hip hop that's for everyone, and this is not definitely hip hop for the club or things that You Can Dance to. So if you haven't been exposed to hardcore hip hop, as in pure, pure lyrics, pure flows, you know those sorts of things, then it might take a while for you to get used to. But anyway, Method Man was the first member of the Wu Tang Clan to like blow, you know, to get like popular acclaim.
And that's because his his flows are more his flows, his chops are more easier to handle. And then by the time you blend it with some production techniques, like from what's his name, Timberland and you know, those kind of producers, you create some nice, so nice, you know, sounds that you can jump off to. So Redman and Method Man, I think they were assigned to Def Jam at some point. And so that's some real good stuff I was listening to on Spotify.
So Redman Method Man, you like hip hop. Try it out. It's a different flair just for you to see. Excuse me, just for you guys who know you young bloods, those of you who like mumble rap and stuff like that, just for you guys to appreciate the the history of hip hop, the evolution of the art. You know that everything hasn't always been mumble rap and you know, this lazy Atlanta Southern kind of drawl. Just know that there's a there's been other stuff that's been out there.
Then while I was checking them out, I decided to see who was on Def Jam these days and I found out something really interesting that our boy adequately Gold is also on Def Jam. I mean, that's that's good shows that Niger music is going places. So you guys can listen to adequately Gold as well. His wife Simi Simi also does some real nice stuff. I don't know if Simi is on Def Jam anyway, but I definitely go old Simi, just in case, you know, Weibo music and hip hop is not your thing.
Do some good jams right there. And it turns out that Frank Ocean is also on Spotify. So on Def Jam. And I am ashamed to say that even though lots of Nigerians listen to Frank Ocean, I've never listened to him. So I don't know if he's a Niger boy or not. But I definitely will check it out. So let me cure my ignorance. Frank Ocean is on Def Jam. Then also found out that Jada Kiss is also on Def Jam. And Jada Kiss that is now that is really old stuff like back from those Rough Rider days, DMX
and all those guys. So Jada Kiss used to be with this group, the locks. So it was three guys, it's Jada Kiss. Then there was Style Speed and then there was Chic Luch. But I think Jada Kiss was the most popular of them. So yeah, that's some good music right there. You want to broaden your talent, You sorry you're a musical pilot and you want to be a man or a woman of refined case just like I am, then this is stuff that I
should check out. Redman Method Man Wu Tang clan on the Nigeria level adequately gold. Check out his wife. See me correct stuff. Frank Ocean, never listen to him, but I know that lots of Nigerians love him. So I'll try him out. I'll see if he's a Nigeria guy or not. And then older people, Rough Rider crew, the locks and all of that. So now back to the conversation that I had with the professor about podcasting. So like I said, the professor who's in the Department of Mass Communications at Lasso, that's Lagos State University and he's trying to see how you can develop a curriculum for audio producers, podcast producers,
people in the audio end of the spectrum. You know, when you, when you talk about audio visual, So people on the audio end of the spectrum, I come up with a curriculum about how you can monetize these skills of yours because clearly there's a gap that is missing in these sorts of things. So if as a lawyer and a doctor, you think that there was a gap in the training that you received that did not prepare you for the real world, you best believe if you're if you're an audio producer, best believe there's going to be a real shock when you enter the job market when you finish from LASU, then let's see what else.
Yeah. So we did some chit chat, you know, about how it's nice to put the entrepreneurial, sorry, forgive me, that's a real difficult world word, the entrepreneurial aspect into the curriculum so that we can foster the entrepreneurial element of, you know, these sorts of people. Because let's face it, it's not every single person that finishes with radio production has been end up working with NTA or the radio station.
So you wanted my opinion on what the essential skills are that folks need to learn when you are in school so that when you enter into the job market, you can excuse me so you can thrive. And sorry guys, just give me a moment. Let me turn on the fan because the rains have stopped in Abuja and Abuja has just become as hot AF. I don't know why. Hot as hell. So let me just put on the fan. Yeah. OK. I was like, so Prof wanted to know what the essential skills are.
And of course, we started off the same sorts of things that I tell you guys here every day. So you should not be surprised, especially those of you who've been listening to the show for months or maybe for years. So first of all, I started off with technical ability. So I had to let Prof know that the things that you people are teaching these kids, even though you're not teaching them the entrepreneurial aspect, it actually is very, very important because if you do not come out with technical ability, if you do not come up with subject matter expertise, it is very,
very hard to sell. And that is a core tenant when it comes to sales and business development. In fact, what's his name, Brian Tracy would say that, you know, subject matter expertise is one O 1 because if you went to school, you studied medicine, but you're a dance, you don't know anything and you're opening your hospital, it will affect the way that you sell yourself. You won't have confidence to sell your ability because you,
you know that you're a dance and that you might kill somebody if somebody comes to your hospital. But then there are some people and those people, we call them fraudsters who even though they don't know she, she as in, in their head, it is zero. They can't talk confidently. They talk with full chest as if they know what they're saying. But then those kind of people, we call them fraudsters, we call them Hulksters, we call them quacks, we call them all kinds of things.
Because for normal people like you and me, if you don't have technical ability, if you don't have subject matter expertise, you can't sell nothing. You can't sell anything because deep down you know that you're a fraud and that you best keep your mouth closed before you cause some kind of Yawa. And believe me, it's serious problem to say you're an audio engineer. You collect somebody's money, you charge him in millions and then you now can't deliver on the product, on the recording,
on the documentary, on the whatever. And you know that we're in Nigeria. Any small thing, people like to involve police. Before you know it, now you sleep in a cell or if they don't find you, they'll go and catch your brother, you know, and all those sorts of things. So I told Prof that look, entrepreneurial part of the curriculum is 0. But technical ability, you guys best stay on your game because we need that to be able to sell.
If you don't have subject matter expertise, if you don't have technical ability, you're not going to be able to sell at all. So I told Prof yes, it's still is important that we're doing our best to make sure that all these young boys and young girls in lawsuit uni like OAU, Abu, last Botech, wherever it is that you want to, we need to keep making sure that we're graduating all these people first class or two one. Well, anyway, you get the point as best ability as possible.
By the way, I'm not saying those of you who graduated third class that there's no hope for you. Let me not disgrace my family and say the degree that I graduated it. Let me just leave it like that. But I'm yes, it will be nice if you do first class or two one, but it's not the end of the road if you graduate 22 or if you graduate third class or even if you graduate past. But technical ability definitely has to be there, especially in something like this.
Audio visual production, technical ability is king because if you graduate first class, what camera you can't hold mixer. You can't mix microphone, you can't mic. Then what did you go to school to, to do exactly? Then now we enter into the other skills, which are the much more entrepreneurial skills. And I told him that we need to have something in the curriculum around prospecting. That is one thing that is missing. And prospecting is this whole thing of you're trying to look for who might be interested in your product or service.
Now, when we go to school and we study law, we study medicine, we study dentistry, we study audio production or study theatre arts. There's no part of the curriculum where your professor tells you that. OK, boys and girls, when you enter the real world, when you're graduating in three years, these are the kinds of people who might be interested in your skills. So theatre has people. Your professor doesn't tell you that the people who might need your skills are TV stations or schools looking for teachers or independent music.
Sorry, independent movie producers looking for talent for a movie or something. We don't have that conversation, but if we have that conversation, then it would help and it would really develop the economy because some of us would have hit the streets running knowing that, OK, I'm done with my law degree. These are the kind of people, these are the kind of employers, these are the kind of customers or these are the kind of stakeholders, other people I can partner with that I should start running after.
And so we need to add prospecting to the curriculum so that when people leave school, they have a sense of who might be interested in my product or my service. And so that's something that people in the podcast production space, in the audio production space, in the video production space, in the whatever space that we need to know. So those of you who are animal doctors for, forgive me, I can't remember what it is that you guys are called.
My father-in-law calls you guys a doctor of mosquitoes, but you know, don't mind him. My father-in-law can be Randy fellows sometimes. So where was I? So even those of you that are doctors or mosquitoes, you guys need to know that, OK, when I Graduate School, how am I going to find people who need my Animal Hospital skills? So that needs to be in curriculum so that as soon as you finish school, you know how to start chasing the customer or the employee or the partner, the joint venture partner, the whatever.
Then I also told Prof that need analysis also needs to be a part of the curriculum over here on in sales and business development. We call that qualification and discovery. That is where you're asking questions about the person and about the project because you need to figure out who the person's are, what the person's tastes are, and then the project, the vision that they're trying to solve, sorry, the vision that they're trying to move, move to.
Since we're talking about audio production now, you know, you need to understand what it is that they're trying to do. Because audio production, you know, it's not like carpentry. With carpentry, somebody can say, I want a table, I want it to be maybe this high or this wide. I'm thinking of maybe this kind of color. And you know, you can rough it out and figure out what it is that the person needs. But then when it comes to audio production or video production,
somebody just come and tell you that I want to do audio documentary. You know that is is high in the world of ideas and you need to be able to figure out exactly what it is that the person needs. So we need a part of the curriculum where we need to teach all these young boys and girls who are leaving last, are leaving OAU, leaving last protect leaving, what's it called? Rust River State, Abbey River State University of Science Technology, all these schools,
we need to be able to get them to figure out how do you have a conversation with the person? Because if someone just comes and tells you I want to do audio documentary, say OK, audio documentary, it will be 8 million. And then the person gives you 8 million. You start rejoicing, only for you to enter the field and start the work and see that that 8 million, you're under charge because of studio space, because of talent, because of talent that you have to rent.
And so that's your rent. What do you do? Yeah. Do you rent talent, Any. I mean, you know, you pay for voice actors, things like that. And then it turns out that actually you needed to charge like 24 M for that thing to even make sense, you know? But if you're able to do needs analysis and figure out the person's vision, it is then you'll be able to have a very solid proposal or presentation. It's OK Olga, I understand you correctly.
You want an audio documentary done. This is what you want us to achieve. These are the ideas you want us to explore. In order to do this thing correctly, we need to record in this kind of environment, that kind of environment, we need to get voice actors of this kind of grade, of that kind of grade. We're going to need sound design. You know, we're going to need sound design talent, we'll need this, we'll need that. And so to pull this thing off,
we're going to need 4 weeks of production and the budget of so, so, so, so, so, so then you can have that kind of conversation. You can make an effective proposal or presentation because you are good at need analysis. So it's not just a matter of somebody will come and say give me audio documentary and then in your mind, because you think 8M10M is big, every single time somebody says audio documentary, just say, Oh yeah, Oh yeah, your money is 10 M Yeah.
I mean, that's not how it works. You need to have the need and ask this conversation first. What are they trying to do? What are they trying to achieve? Do you have the skill set to achieve on that vision that this person is trying to produce with the audio documentary or with whatever it is that they're trying to do? Need to have that conversation? It is. Then you'll be able to give an effective proposal or presentation.
Now they can say, ah, yes, excuse me now. Oh yes, this boy understands my vision or this girl understands my vision. This producer, this person definitely knows, knows what's up. And then of course, I spoke to Prof about being able to close, which is being able to take the next step, being able to get someone to take action on things that you guys have had conversations on. So excuse me. Yeah. So that was pretty much the crux of the conversation that I had with Prof.
So technical ability is there. Continue. It's absolutely important. Let's keep graduating all these people first class. But then we just need to make sure that these people, the boys and girls in school, that they'll learn how to prospect. Oh, sorry. Forgive me. It's the call to prayer out in the window. I mean, you know these things. Now. What was I so prospecting need analysis. How to make an effective proposal presentation.
OK, negotiation, yes. How to negotiate because it's Niger. I mean, nobody just you can't just tell person your money is 10 M and person will now bring out 10 M cash and give you the water price. It doesn't matter what it is, whether it's house, whether it's documentary, whether it's airplane, whether it's whatever it is the most price. So you have to learn how to do negotiations and stuff like that. Then. Yes. So that was the main part of the conversation.
But then let's see what else? What else? What else? OK, We, we got to speak about some other stuff, like how he would like me to address some of his students. And I'm looking forward to that because I haven't spoken at a university in a very long time. The last time I spoke in university was actually when I was in university because I was the Lord Chancellor of my, one of the small law student societies there. So I've, I've, I've been addressing other people since I
left union, but I haven't addressed the university crowd since then. So it'd be nice to go back to school, you know, look at young folks, relatively young folks, younger folks, because I'm still a young man myself. So it'd be nice to address the young bloods, have a conversation with young boys and girls out there, answer all their questions. Well, bottom line, I just want young people to know that. It can be scary, but it's not something that you need to get anxiety over or to lose your sleep over because every solution has a problem.
So it'd be nice to talk to the to the students. Looking forward to all that. And then he was also giving me just about how he's in talks with another professor in the UK about how they're jointly trying to come up with a curriculum for these sorts of things. And I think that that is really, really good that Nigel are moving in that level and that the UK is also moving in that level. And as you're teaching these people how to become audio producers, you're also teaching them how to be able to profit from their skills when they graduate.
Let it not be this whole suffering artist thing that you graduate first in your class, audio production or theatre arts, and you're the best, but then you're a struggling, struggling artist. Then we also had the conversation around barriers to get into the trade. I thought was going to come at it from the angle of equipment and stuff like that that is needed. But the angle that he was coming from basically was he was saying that nowadays that everything has been democratized, that there's a lot of competition in the market.
So he wanted to know what my own take was and I gave him my own take. Hoha, as per a a child of the profession, because like I told you, my parents were a journalist. My mom would eventually end up as a marketing communications professional in the world of advertising, PR, branding and all that. But Popsy was a comms guy all the way through. So journalism then from later on he now worked with anyway anyway is a national orientation agency.
They took over from MAMSA. Maybe those are government public education schemes, Abby programs because it's Nigeria. When you say schemes, it sounds somehow so government education agencies. Then from there, where did he retire? OK, I can't remember. I think he retired at Noah, but I can't remember. Anyway, such a long time ago. So as a childhood professional, it's something I saw first hand now when my parents when I was a kid and my parents were journalists.
Back then, to be a journalist, you actually had to go to school. So Mumsy studied theatre arts and then Mumsy had a did an MBA and then what did Mumsy do again? Basha, she went to go. She, she went to school. It's the same thing with Popsy. Popsy went to school. He didn't do university but Popsy had HN, HN something HND higher National Diploma. So he had higher National Diploma, then he went to Institute of Journalism, then he did the course in radio production.
Then he also went to London and also did more courses in TV and radio production. But what I'm trying to say is that back then, if somebody was a journalist, best believe the person was a journalist properly called and properly trained. Because you went to school, you learnt the everything. This is how you handle the camera. This is how you mic, this is how you edit. This is how you do feed A feed B. This is how you transmit AB.
You see up transmission, down transmission. As in they went to school, they learnt everything, they learnt professional ethics, objectivity, everything. They went to school. But by the time as times were changing 80s into 90s, it became clear that in Nigeria, anybody could just call themselves a journalist. All you had to do was go and buy cassette recorder. Yeah, that's what we had back then. Cassette recorder. You go and buy cassette recorder, you wear nice suit or you wear, you know, correct blazer or whatever.
And then you have connection to people in power. You ask them a bunch of questions and next thing you say you're a journalist or next thing you're APR specialist or next thing you're this or you're your communication specialist. You're that. So that was what Prof was alluding to. And yes, that has been happening in Nigeria for a very long time. And it actually has been a global phenomenon that in some professions the barrier to entry is very low.
So anybody can call themselves audio audio engineer. I mean, think about it now, if I want to be an audio engineer, I don't have to go to last room. All I have to do is sit down with YouTube. I watch plenty videos. By the time I watch plenty videos, and then I do some experimenting here and there. I can now say myself, I'm audio engineer even though I didn't go to school. So that's what professor was talking about with the spaces.
And some of these things are becoming democratized. So anybody is a journalist, anybody's audio producer, anybody's photographer, anybody is videographer, anybody is anything because the equipment is cheap, the information is readily available on YouTube. And after all, in this space, people think we need these connections. So anybody can do the job. So I told him that unfortunately that has always been the case in Niger for for a while, so from the 80s up until now.
And I told him it's not a trend that will go away. It will always be the case because let's face it, I'm here with my phone recording this podcast, and then I upload it. No editing. I'm sure audio producers who are listening to this now, I'm sure they're pulling their hair out. Like, what kind of rubbish is this? My guy just picks up the phone, records audio, puts it on the Internet, and the guy is feeling like he's a broadcaster.
Did he edit? No. Did he script it? No. Did he do this? No. Is there noise gating? No. Is there? You know, So yeah, I'm sure that they're getting real angry listening to shows like this. What? This trend is not going to stop. So I told him that the future is for us to learn how to distinguish ourselves in the sea of competition that is out there. You learn how to differentiate yourself and that the only way you can differentiate yourself is from the sales process.
That is what is going to help the true professional stand out from the amateur. So for somebody who goes to Lasso and who learns the technical thing from A-Z and graduates first class, but then also learns the entrepreneurial aspect, this is how you prospect, this is how you interact with clients. This is how you do client consultation. This is how you do needs analysis. This is how you do treatment for the project to be sure everybody understands.
This is how you create a proposal, this is how you do presentation, this is how you negotiate, this is how you close. Now, of course, you guys teach them the project management aspect as well because after you collect somebody's money, you have to deliver on time and deliver on budget. So this is how you schedule a project. This is how you do timelines, this is how you do this, this is how you do that. This is how you handle continuity, everything.
So it is only when somebody is exposed to not just the technical knowledge but then the business aspect as well that you can stand out as a true professional because the young boy or the young girl who just sits down and watches on YouTube is only going to learn that technical aspect. So the good professors in Lasso or in Ibadan or in Benwestate University, because we have a very famous mass communications department there at Benwestate University.
So you professors need to introduce this part of the curriculum because that's what's going to make your people stand out. Because the young boy or girl who goes and watches something on YouTube and said, Oh yeah, me, I'm audio producer, the person will be severely lacking in this aspect. But then if you can enshrine all this in part of your curriculum and your graduates are graduating with these sorts of things, the difference will be clear.
When a lasso graduate opens his mouth and has a conversation with you, you see me in analysis on point proposal is on freak. And then the way that they're handling the relationship and handling the project, the difference will be clear from somebody who just sat down in Popsy's house or Momsy's house and then watched documentary on watch the YouTube video on how to do audio production. He's now calling himself auto producer.
So that is how we're going to make ourselves standard actually, not just from technical ability, but also all I call it. So I say business process ability. That is what will make the true professional stand out. So that was my advice to Prof just make sure the entrepreneurial aspect is part of the curriculum. I hope he's able to pull you through because people in academia typically don't like change. And Niger is conservative again.
So I can understand how if he finishes his research and he's trying to talk to Senate, University Senate to say, OK, this is how we need to change the curriculum. I'm sure that lots of people are not going to be happy about those sorts of changes. But if he can push it through, I think this is how people in the audio production space are going to be able to stand out, are going to be able to monetize their skills in the future.
And it definitely is something that you should be paying attention to in whatever sphere it is that you studied. By the way, before I run off, I am not saying that those of us who sat down and watch YouTube and learn how to do one or two things. I'm not saying that we are deficient, you know, continuing your hustle, but it gives your craft the respect that it deserves. Make sure you learn your craft. Make sure you horn your craft.
It's not just about making a buck because there's some people that you know, they will do anything. If it looks like podcasting is making money today, they will see their podcaster then if next tomorrow it looks like it's crypto that was making money, they will say, OK, they need to crypto. Then the day after next tomorrow it was that is real estate that is popping. They will now say that they're real estate agent. Then next year, if it's that they discover a Nigerian superstar in football and something and it looks like a sport agent is what is making money next and they'll say that sports agent.
So none of this rubbish and hopping. Sorry, one moment I need to check something. OK, sorry about that. You know, I recorded my phone, so something just came. I interrupted the recording. I lost my train of thought. OK, I guess what I was trying to say is that those of us who learn things from YouTube, because let's face it, my photography career, that's how I started. Basically, I was good at taking pictures. My flatmate said, oh, boy,
you're good at this sort of thing, you should do it as a business. I said, Oh yeah, thanks. And then he sent me a couple of videos and then that's how I started learning my craft. So shout out to Aibi, who was my flatmate at the time at the University of Aberdeen. So he's part of the people who set me off on this trajectory that I am on today because he said, look, you got the skills, you should do this thing. And then after a while, he started sending me YouTube videos.
So this is how you learn the craft. Well, go forth and make some money. So Aibi Dangana, my guy, thank you very much for setting me off on my path. So that's it, 30 minutes. Let me bring this episode to a close. If you are a Prof or you happen to know a Prof in any university who is also thinking about these sorts of things and they want advice about how their curriculum can be expanded to introduce these sorts of things into entrepreneurial aspects into the curriculum, then by all means give your Prof your uncle or whoever it is.
If Prof happens to be your uncle. Given my phone number, I would love to have a conversation with people in the academia because this collaboration between people in in the academia and those of us who are live and in the field, this is how we get our disciplines to develop. So this conversation between academia and those of us who are in the field, it must always continue because the people that are going to enjoy at the end of the day will be the students because professors will bring their own.
Those of us practitioners will bring our own that cross pollination, the children are the ones who are going to benefit from it. So thank you very much for your time and attention. My contact details are the phone number 0806466 2140. The country code is +234. For those of you who are not Nigerian, then you can also connect with me on LinkedIn. The name to look out for establishing. I'm the host of the show. Just look at the link where I
listen to this episode. You see my name there, highlight it, copy and paste in LinkedIn. My handsome face will come out. Send me a connection request and we can be having a conversation 24 hours, 48 hours later. So yeah, thanks for your time and attention. I'll catch you guys on the next episode.