No More Excuses: How to Get Paid on Time

Hello and welcome to The High Table. This is the Oracle's chamber, the inner sanctuary, the Conclave of the elders, where we talk about sales, we talk about money, we talk about tactics, we talk about marketing strategy, business growth, and solving business problems. And today on the show, I want us to look at how to. Deal with delayed. Payments. You're talking to somebody and you're trusting that the person will transfer you some creepsy money in two or three days.

You want your account to hear PIM, but then the payment is getting delayed and delayed and delayed. Today we're going to talk about how to deal with that. We're going to talk about how to deal with postponements. You're talking with somebody. You are assuming that, OK, Monday you go mobilize so that we'll start. But then the person on Monday now says, you know, you get one thing, you get one thing, and then you're now getting frustrated.

Like how far? I thought Monday we were moving then we're also going to learn how to deal with lack of advancements. For those of you who listen to the podcast regularly, you'll remember that an advancement is when you and the other person on the other end of the phone, on the other end of the e-mail, at the other end of the business meeting, at the other end of the negotiating table, whatever it is, when both of you agree solidly that this is going to be the next step.

So how do you secure advancements and how do you make sure that if you secure advancements that people live up to it? Because honestly speaking, if you are not setting advancements, if you're not agreeing on what the next step is going to be, and if you can't hold people to that, this deal is not going to move at all. If you are thinking the guy is going to transfer on Monday, but the guy, even though he said it, he didn't really think he was going to transfer on Monday.

You know, whether you like it or not, this deal is going nowhere. This deal is not moving. So these are the sorts of things that we're going to talk about today. Now this is not going to be, I'm not manufacturing a case study today because this one is something that happened live and it's something that happened to one of my former students. So we are going to look at it. But of course, I've kept enough of the details anonymized so that, you know, I don't reveal my students identity.

And also so that just in case the customized listening, the customer won't know that, you know, with the gossip arm. And so now let us say we're dealing with, OK, let's say the, let's say the guy's name is Magic Mike. Yeah. So the person now that my students, let's us call him Magic Mike. Well, if you're listening to this and you're wondering Magic Mike, that sounds like me. So yeah, it's exactly you. I'm just using this as a case study to teach other people listening to the podcast about how to handle these sorts of things.

So Magic Mike is in the business of book production for clients. Let's just leave it that way. I don't understand anything more. So Magic Mike is in the business of producing books for clients. And let's say Magic Mike is talking to a potential customer, a much more elderly gentleman. So let's call him Odumegu. So Magic Mike and Odumegu, they're having a conversation about book production. Then Magic Mike, who is my former student, sent me this message and the message basically was that he's talking to somebody now about the book deal, and this one is a sweet deal because they're talking about 6 books.

So by the time we transfer money up and down, by the way, Magic Mike, he collects his money in dollars. So by the time he collects the dollars, and of course you know how foreign currency is now Forex is nowadays, by the time he collects his money in dollars, you know, whether it's 4000 dollars, $8000.10 thousand dollars, $12,000, you will do the math. By the time you transfer that into naira. Didn't look sweet, I swear.

If not, if you've not experienced this kind of thing before, the first time it happens to you, oh, it's orgasmic. Really it is orgasmic. The first time you say you are charging somebody in dollars, and in your mind you're thinking, well, you know, you're thinking, the money is small, so you just charge the person, you know, $6000. You know, you will argue back and forth. The person agrees. OK, no problem. The person will transfer $5800

by the time nothing hits your bank account. Oh, orgasmic. Orgasmic. So this money now is a good one. It's a very, very good one if the thing closes. All right, That's where a lot of us find ourselves. This will be a good one. If. The deal closes. So Magic Mike said they had a conversation and they had the qualification call where he tried to assess whether this guy's a fit. Now, let me take a step back. For those of you who are listening to the podcast Brand new, a qualification call is just what you're trying to find out.

Who am I talking to? Do they have a problem? Excuse me? Is it a kind of problem that I can solve? And is it a big enough problem that they're ready to take action? Now, this is an important call to make because if you're talking to somebody who doesn't have a problem, then it doesn't matter whether you follow up this person from now until Jesus Christ comes again, the deal will not close. The person doesn't think he has a problem, right?

So we need to know, does this person have a problem and the problem what's solving? Or does this person have a vision and then something is pursuing them to chase down that vision? Because I keep saying on the podcast, and I'll never stop saying it, that no matter who it is you're talking to, the person either has a problem or they have a vision. So if you're in the book production, the problem might be that look, for whatever reason,

I want this book published by so, so, so and so date, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, in that case it's a problem for some other person is that I feel. Called. In my inner soul. I feel like I'm an author. I want to, you know, I want to be up there with Jim, Amanda Adichie. I want to be there with Woolish. I want you to be there. When people call those names, they will Call My Name. So if I'm in book production,

the people that you're dealing with either have a problem or they have a vision. Qualification is just where we're trying to figure out what's going on, what's happening. This guy that entered my DM or this guy that has come to my office or me that I've gone to Chief Automaker's office, What exactly is on Chief Odomego's mind? Does Chief Odomego have have a problem like I must deliver these books now, now, now, now, now, this thing is burning inside me?

Or does he have a vision like, you know, I'm trying to scale the greater heights so that in the annals of Nigerian history, when I mentioned Willis on cars #1 they will call me Odomego as #2 that is the purpose of a qualification call. You figure out, is there a problem? Is there a vision? What are they trying to achieve? And then most importantly, do I have the skill set? Because if you don't have the skill set, but you're looking at the fact that by the time you charge this guy $12,000, then you translate into naira.

You know, the kind of money that will, you know, like even if your wife was crawling with you in the morning, by the time you just show her bank account, by the time they convert the thing to naira, you know, she would just smile. And then the quarrel is forgotten. Well, yes. Magic Mike. Excuse me. Yeah. Magic Mike is a is a married man as well. So he understands, you know some of these things. If you are looking at the money but you don't have the skill set and you collect the money from Chief O Domingo, it will cause quarrel in the future.

Definitely it is not Maybe it's not whether you might quarrel or you might not. You will quarrel. The thing is just the nature. Of the quarrel because Chief O Domingo will transfer the money. Excuse me? You will start the work and it will become clear that you either do not understand what Chief or Domingo is trying to do or that you like the skill set to pull you through. So this one is not whether they will quarrel.

If you don't have the skill set, there will be a quarrel. The only thing we're now wondering is, would the quarrel be big or will it be small? That's all. But there will be a quarrel. So please listen. The purpose of the qualification call. You're trying to make your life easier. If you can't do, don't do. And this is what I tell people, if you can't do but you know somebody else who can. Pick up the phone, call this other person and say, my guy,

what's up? How you doing now? It's been a while. The guy will say hi, this one that you don't call that you call me to the waiting room. Say no money. Now say OK, talk. What's going on? What's happening? It's OK. You know this chief will do a goodness. I've been know the guy now that politician and say yes. And the guy wants to write a book, but, you know, it's not something I can do. I think it's the kind of thing that you're going to do.

And the guy was, you know, 'cause he's in Nigeria. So I know, no problem. So how we go run up and then you tell the guy your terms. OK, See, you know what, this is the kind of thing that I would have charged this guy $12,000. So you go ahead, charge him 18. And then the remaining maybe 12 and 18 difference is 6. The remaining $6000 you try, you transfer it to me as Commission, then you and yoga you argue back and forth, you will agree on something that makes sense, and then you now transfer Chief Odomego to him because he's the one that has the skill set.

There's less chance of quarrel. It is better for you to do this and then collect $6000 clean with no quarrel now to try and collect the $12,000 complete from Chief Odomego. And then later on, you start to quarrel and then you now tarnish your reputation. If you don't have the skill set to do this or if you don't have the inventory, that's for those of you who sell physical goods and all done. If you don't have the inventory and you don't have a way to secure that inventory, good quality one at the right price.

Right price, please free it. Either Free Chief or Domingo and let him go or call up somebody who can collect your 10%. For those of you who like to say, no, I don't agree in 10%. I do it because of God. Yeah, it's fine. We can do it because of God. It's OK, I'm just saying that when you're a married man, that extra 10% comes in quite handy. I remember the first time, this was a long time ago, before we had my first son.

So this is well over 10 years ago when I did my first referral and then the person sent me 80,000 naira. I thought to myself, 80,000 naira because I didn't ask for anything. All I did was made some introductions. I mean, nowadays 80,000 Naira is nothing, but I'm talking about a time when to fill my car. My, I don't know that jalopy back then, the Toyota Corolla. Yeah, to fill my Toyota Corolla back then to fill up the tank,

you didn't used to reach like 3-5 or something. So back then and by the time my son was born, the expensive diapers like the real expensive stuff, Huggies, expensive ones to buy Huggies for one month was 7 K back then. So the fact that I made one or two phone calls and somebody just wired me atk like that, I said, eh, OK. Not bad. So anyway, something to consider. So Magic Mike has called Chief Otomo and they've had the qualification call.

OK. So by the way, during the qualification call, it's OK. Also, especially when you're in a creative endeavour, it's OK to also size up the personality of the person that you're dealing with because like me now, for instance, I mean consulting. So if somebody's a quarrelsome, cantankerous person, honestly, I can't deal. I can't make it happen. This is also the point of the qualification meeting. For those of us who are in the creative space you will just know that this money is good but based on the personality of who it is I'm talking to like Kai this will be a drag.

I can't make this thing work. Now there was 1 photographer that I knew back in the day who he thought this one job was going to be hard. The person came to him so he decided to call a figure that make the person run away. So the guy multiplied his rates times 3. So instead of telling the person 300K he told the person and I'll do it for 900. The person say OK account details now the job was still difficult but he said well.

For 900 K it was worth it. We quarry, we shout to every every you know. But for 900K no problem, it was worth it. So something to consider. I'm not saying that every single time you're faced with a difficult person, multiply your price, you know, times three. I'm just saying that when we're having qualification discussions, all these early conversations, these are some of the things we're trying to sort out. So if it's something that personality no to no to join,

like maybe you're in construction, you're an architect, well. I'll put it you know you deliver. Your plan, you deliver your plan, you start groundbreaking ceremony, you start groundbreaking ceremony. Like they're much more objective criteria that you have to deal with when you're in certain industries. But then you're in book publishing, you know, you're an agent, you're a consultant, you know, I guess personality is also important.

So Magic Mike had the conversation with Chief Automegu and it was like, OK, banality is OK. This is a fit the budget range. We discussed some money. So I think we're good to go. Now, the method that Magic Mike used to have this conversation with Chief Automegu was the band method that is BANT. It's an acronym band stands for Budget, Authority, need, and timeline. I'll explain that later, but the thing I just want you to understand is this.

Remember. Magic Mike had the conversation with Chief Otomigo and he used a framework to handle that conversation. The problem is a lot of you Nigerian business people, all right, Nigerian sales people, Nigerian entrepreneurs, too many of you are having these very important conversations, an una de freestyle from beginning to the end. I now wonder why is there a problem? If you're. Freestyling there will be a problem. It's not.

Whether the problem will occur or not, it's just a matter of how whether it will be a big problem. A small. Problem or a medium sized problem. But there will be a problem. So this is the reason why we use frameworks or heuristics. Heuristics just means, you know, shorthand to help you think properly. Uh huh. Like, remember mathematics back when we were in secondary school? The almighty formula that we use for mathematics.

And then this other formula again. What's it called again? Budget. No brackets before multiplication, before division, before subtraction, before addition, before, you know, just a simple something that if you're faced with a complex, complex formula, you look at the ones in the bracket first, then you do the multiplication first, before the division, before the subtraction, before the addition. See, for those of you who are studying maths, I beg novaks, I

know some of you will be pulling your hair saying like what is this guy saying? Forgive me, it's been a very long time since I did any of this, but I just remember that. That. Formula. Whatever that formula was, may nothing save my life. You enter. Into exam hall. You see formula anyhow bracket symbol, symbol symbol you just. Your heart's now being Bing Bing beam. You just remember almighty formula, Almighty formula bracket before addition before this.

So I know I've gotten the order wrong but I think saved my life. So just. Like in mathematics or in any other discipline, It's the same in sales. We also have frameworks as well. We also have heuristics as well to help us to reason something. Well, reason this thing through to. Think I'm well. Digest everything well. Assess the whole situation. Now this. Particular method banned BANT budget authority need and timeline is not as safe as the best.

If this is your. First time hearing it and you start doing some research you will find about other frameworks. But. Sorry, forgive me, I have a cold. But the reason? Why I taught Magic Mike Band is just because it is simple. It is easy. Anybody can remember BAN? T band and then it only has four criteria. 4 criteria is easy to remember since it's easy to remember. Even. If somebody. Calls you and you're on the treadmill.

You can be. By the way, I don't recommend this. Don't take the phone call while you're on the treadmill because it sounds funny. It sounds like you're in the. Middle of doing a whole bunch of stuff you shouldn't be doing right? So somebody calls pause the treadmill. Pause your. Stopwatch, get off and then have the conversation with the customer. By the time you're done, you get back on the treadmill, you finish your workout.

But if you're on the treadmill, you can be having a conversation in your head. You can be working on the treadmill Zoom. Zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom and in your mind. You'll be thinking B budget oya. May I ask the guy about budget zoom? Zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom a. Authority. Oh yeah, let me ask the guy about authority Zoom. Zoom zoom, Zoom Zoom N. Need. OK, let me ask the guy about need zoom. Zoom, zoom, zoom T. Timeline.

Oh yeah. Let me ask the guy about timeline. So by the time you're having conversations like that budget or money conversations, authority conversations need conversations, timeline conversations, you'll find out that you're covering good ground to be able to decide whether this is a good person to work with or not. So whether you're a book agent, whether you're a real estate agent, whether you're an architect, whether you're a business consultant, whether you're a brain surgeon, you know these conversations need.

To be. Had, but we'll explore what the band is later. Then. Magic Mike also noted that one was having the conversation with Chief Odomega after. The. Conversation Chief Odomega was sent over six books. And of course. Usually Magic Mike is dealing with people usually 11 book, maybe 2. But this one, the guy sent 6 and then Magic Mike said he analyzed three of them initially. Then after. Analyzing those three, he now spoke to the client and the client said, no, it's not 6.

Actually it's 7. Excuse me, it's seven books that I want to produce. I'm preparing the manuscript. The manuscript is almost ready. So you still remain oneself that I will send you. Now, let's stop here because of course, the conversation that I had with Magic Mike, you know, was, was plenty. Well, let's just stop here because there are a few questions arising. First of all, what is banned #2 how come this guy sends six books?

And then what are the implications for how we continue Now? I hope you guys are tracking with me so far. Now Banned, like I said, is an acronym it stands for. Excuse. Me acronym is when you just take the initials of something and you put it together and you can't pronounce it as one word. But actually it stands for several other things like NEPA for those of us who were born late 70s, early 80s. So NEPA is Nigerian Electricity Power Authority, so that's an acronym and EPA.

So the same thing with band. Now band stands for budget authority need and then timeline. If you're trying to write something down now, it's OK, that's not a problem. You can always replay the podcast later. And then plus I'm going to include this in the short notes. So by the time you're done, all you have to do is just go to whatever podcast player you're listening to, just go to details, go to description, whatever you see the note there,

just long press collect. I say collect, long press, select everything, copy. Then you can paste it on your phone. Then you can do research later. So budget, authority, need and then timeline. These are the key things that. Every single. Nigerian business person should be having conversations on somebody slides into your inbox, You should be having banned conversations. Somebody comes into your office, you should be having banned conversations.

You go into somebody's factory, you should be having banned conversations. Somebody comes to meet you on the site, you should be having banned conversations. You should be having budget conversations, money conversations, talk money, money, money, talk about. It early, talk about it often. So that you stop the situation where you meet somebody today, you think this one is a sweet deal, you will start to talk. Then after two months, the person will now tell you that you're too expensive.

You have wasted two months of your life. Have the budget conversation, the money conversation early, so that if money will be a problem, let the guy tell you on day 2 that you're too expensive, you will move on and look for somebody else. Do you hear me? I know it's scary. It takes some practice, but budget money, money, money. Conversations early and often. When do you? Do it early. How often should you do it? Often, early and often.

Number. One so that you don't waste your time #2 so you don't waste the other person's time. Because trust me, the other person too is also going to be frustrated that he invested 2 months in building a relationship with you only to find out that you are too expensive. Now, another reason why we have the money conversation early and often is apart from too expensive. You need to know who you're dealing with. So yes Sir, you're into book publishing, blah blah blah.

There are some people unfortunately who don't value what it is you do. As far as they're concerned, 250K. We should sort this person. And when they say 250K they mean naira. If your charge is $4000 you need to know the gap between 250,000 naira and the $4000 is huge. Then there are some people who in their mind they value publishing, but. You know. Worst case scenario, suppose give them like 3-4 million naira. But then.

You charge in dollars, so you charge $4000. Now, the gap between $4000 and 4 million naira is not that big. If you talk about money early and often, you now know that OK, you know what? I might come down small, Maybe I can pull them up small, but it's workable. So B budget. Budget just means money. Does this person have realistic price expectations? Have these conversations early, Have these conversations often, then authority.

Who am I dealing with? Is this the person that can say yes? Is this the person that can authorize my payment? Is this the person that can authorize this project to continue? If not, I am talking to the wrong person and that is why I say during my trainings that. Don't. Waste your time talking to houseboys. If you are talking. To the houseboy. Does the houseboy have the authority to say yes? We're going ahead. The answer in most cases is no,

but you won't know. What do you ask? There was a time I was trying to do something at the. British High Commissioners, sorry. At British British Council and they put me in touch with someone and they said that that person was the head of residence. Fancy title, eh? But. Still, I had the conversation with the Head of Residence or Chief of residence, chief of residents to find out what her authority was and and I realized that, oh, OK, even though ordinarily sorry for forgive me for those of you who have this job, I'm not trying to downplay you.

I'm just trying to put it put it in Niger setup. So head of residents in Niger parlance, we still call you a glorified. Houseboy, I'm sorry. I'm just saying that's what Nigerians think. As in, if I go and tell my mom right now that I've got a brand new job and I'm the chief of residents for the American ambassador, they have the ambassador for America to Nigeria, you know, blah, blah, blah. You know, my aunties will be laughing at me as he, this one after all this school at the end last last night, houseboy.

He became a houseboy then. Well, he's a houseboy, but I pay him dollars, you know? You know. Anyway, so sorry, I'm not trying to denigrate your profession, but I had the conversation with her to figure out her authority. And I said, oh. OK, she actually is highly placed. She makes administrative decisions not just around domestic staff, but around contractors and blah, blah, blah. So I knew that it was fine for me to continue talking to her because at the end of the day she had authority to say start.

Today. Or authority to transfer. Money. So that we can begin the project. So you should be having those conversations. Authority conversations. Who are you talking to? Can the person say yes? Can the person say no then? Need Nigerians where well anyway everybody has needs conversation, but we just need to get better at need conversation. Need conversations when you're just trying to figure out exactly what is this problem that the person has or what is the vision that they're working towards.

Then T timelines we should be having conversations about when are we going to start. When you get. A sense of people's timelines and you get a sense of. All I put. In now, OK, when we say timeline, we also mean urgency. Urgency means is there any particular reason that people have to take action soon? Because you can't be talking to somebody and this deal can be a $16,000 opportunity. But honestly speaking, if there is no pressing reason why the person wants to take action today or tomorrow or next month,

you don't have a deal on your hands. You don't. Now I'm. Lucky that after my legal career, because I'm a former lawyer turned business consultant, the next thing I did was events. And in events, timelines, urgency. We learned this one very well. Because. Those of us in events, we get burned by timelines a lot. You talk to somebody, it's a big deal, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then when it's time to transfer the person, say, oh, no, no, no,

the event actually is next year. And then you now feel like I need it. Like, what the hell was I wasting my time for chasing this person for three months and then this job is next year. And why in the hell would I want to give him a quote and lock it down at today's price for an event that is next year? So for those of us who are in events, we learned very early timelines. So I'm lucky that I started in events. Because.

Also in events when you're hanging around with other people, wedding planners, MC cake makers, caterers, video people, you start seeing how conversational people stylishly fish for this information. Now, one thing that wedding planners used to do, and I started doing that was oh, congratulations, you just got composed to how did you guys meet? Oh, that's wonderful, school abroad, blah, blah, blah. Oh how when is when is the wedding date?

You see? You start with how did you guys meet? When is the wedding date? To. Outsiders. It seems like it's just this conversation, but no, the wedding planner knows what she's doing. Excuse me? The wedding planner is not going to invest weeks building relationship with someone who they had. They don't even have a wedding date. That's the reason why wedding planners do all that. Like, Oh well, oh, so nice to see you. Oh blah blah, let me see the ring.

Oh, the ring is beautiful. How did he propose 00 blah blah blah? Blah blah blah. Always. Oh, what venue have you guys selected? What venue have you guys selected? Excuse me now question, when is the wedding date? What venue has have you guys selected? The wedding planner is actually asking about tea timelines or urgency. The ring might be wonderful. They might have money, but if they have not selected wedding date, if they've not selected wedding hall, why am I talking to this person?

The person says, oh, we haven't selected yet, but we are considering this place, this place, this place. Can you see that? OK, We are considering OK. It's a sign that OK seriousness day. There is hope timelines urgency, please. No matter the the, the discipline, whether you're into books, whether you're into events, whether you're into consulting, whether you have a startup, whatever timelines now, how come this guy sends six books?

The reason why this is one of the questions that's arising is if, let's say in your industry now, like in this case, people normally send one or two books, but then you finish your conversation or somebody sends 6 before you review anything, you suppose pick up the phone and then boss Chief, you say chief. Chief would make say yes, my son. So I just received your e-mail. No, well, we're talking. I thought it was one or two books, but Chief, you sent me 6.

The children now say, Oh yes, yes, yes, my son. Sorry, I forgot to tell you. I sent you 6. I'm actually working on one now and I actually want all of those ones to be published. That's what we're going to be working on. You will ask first before you start to review anything. Because. Magic Mike? I wanted to ask him now. OK, no problem. Chief sent you 6 books. You review 3. How did you know which three to review? Somebody send you 6.

Maybe the person is just sending you 6 as per see the breadth of my work. But maybe it is book #5 that the guy wants to publish. If you invested time in reviewing book 1213, can you not see that you wasted your time? But of course I. Didn't tell Magic Mike like that. And that's the. Reason why I'm making this episode so that Magic Mike will hear. And you know, other people will learn as well. So that's also another question arising.

How come he sent six? You have to have a conversation with people. Now, Chief, we had a conversation earlier. This is what I thought. You have sent an e-mail and you sent, you sent more than I was expecting. So what are we, what are we doing here? Are we publishing just one and you want my opinion on 6 or you want? US. To do all six. So Chief, like let me know, like what's the plan? Then once you ask, you keep quiet and let Chief Odomego continue to talk from there,

from all the things that Chief Odomego says, you will now know how to plan the way forward. So let's continue because it's already 30 minutes. So Magic Mike now continue telling me, give me the gist that in the beginning when I was talking to Chief Odomego, Odomego was saying things like as soon as possible, as soon as possible, as soon as possible. And so Magic Mike was happy because who doesn't want to charge like twelve, $16,000?

Look, I'm telling you, the first time nothing happens to you, when you see the equivalent in your account in Naira, I say it is orgasmic. The first time it happens to you, you don't be able to work again. That's the very first time. Now after a while you get used to it, but the first time you'll be able to work again, you know, you stand up, you know, you go to the fridge, you maybe make like Indo mie, you know then you know you fry egg.

It's amazing egg. You now fry like maybe 5-6 egg. You know send the gate man to go and buy Fanta for you because you know money has come in so it's not as if you're on emergency mode anymore. You know you watch small film on Netflix. You know you'll be confused at first. You need time to step down, then maybe tomorrow ahead you'll now be able to work. And then of course, you call your wife and you give her the good news.

You people thank God you know you, you say prayers. And if your wife is a holy woman, unfortunately for you should start talking about tithe, which is conversation you don't want to hear because you collected 16,000. Dollars. Your wife is now saying we supposed to remove $1600 to give to the church anyway. So maybe if you're married to a spirit filled woman, don't tell her how much you collected. Just tell her that good money came inside.

Let's just leave. It like that So what was that so. Chief is saying as soon as possible, as soon as possible, as soon as possible. OK, no problem. But then Magic Mike started noticing that there were a pattern of delays, and this is where a lot of us make problems. I said, make problems, make mistakes. A problem begins to arise when somebody tells you as soon as possible. As soon as possible sounds sweet, but remember, we all have different time frames.

For me, when somebody tells me as soon as possible, I'm making today's recording on Wednesday. My own assumption is that by Friday, worst case scenario, we don't start. That is, help me. I understand as soon as possible. Some people say as soon as possible, they actually mean two weeks from now. So I never assume that I know what as soon as possible means. Oh, and by the way, there are some people, those ones are rare.

There are some people who say, when they say as soon as possible, What they mean is by the time we caught this conversation, we're beginning immediately. So you need to know who you're dealing with because for those people and those Nigerians are rare who say for them as soon as possible means if we end this conversation at 12:30, by 12:35 start on my project, You need to know so that you know you won't be rushed. So when somebody says we're going to start as soon as possible, you say, oh,

fantastic, Yeah, I'd love to get on that. No problem. I'll speak to my team. But sorry Chief, just to be sure we're on the same page when you say as soon as possible, what do you mean by that? That is wrong way to ask. I hear what Chief would make, will say. And she? Maybe says, Oh yeah, sounds possible. I want to start in about two weeks. In about two weeks. That sounds good, but don't leave it like that. You will. Now look at your calendar for those of us who have fancy wristwatches.

So one moment and my calendar is on my watch. So if he says two weeks from now I just checked my smartwatch, yes. I have a smartwatch. Let me flex on you. Sorry. Hold on. OK, He's back. My calendar closes quickly. So I now say, oh, that, Chief, two weeks from now is the 20th of May. So does that sound about right? You want us to begin by the 20th of May, and then Chief will say, Oh yes, by 20th of May, I would like the production on these books to have begun.

Then you will now start working backwards. OK, Chief, no problem. For us to start on the 20th of May, I'll need to mobilize the team. I'll need to do this. I'll need this. So I will need. A. Payment of 80%. So in this case, Chief, I will need you to transfer what is 80% of $16,000 now. I don't know let. Me make it up, let's just say 10,000. So on each transfer $10,000 10 days before. So that means you'd have to make a transfer by the 10th of May,

Chief of Domingo. Is that something we can work out? If your Domingo says yeah, it's doable, OK, no problem. You will now be specific again. So OK, no problem Sir. So 10th of May actually is next week Sunday. But you know what, let's how about we just say Monday worst case scenarios, OK, yeah, Monday is fine. Monday is fine. My PA should be around. Monday is fine. OK, fantastic. Then So Chief, I'll be expecting a payment on Monday and our start date is going to be the 20th of May.

I'll send you an e-mail just as a recap and also send the recap to your WhatsApp. So Chief, will that be all? So yes, that's good. Any other issue or no other issue then caught the phone call. You see, that's how we. Do it. As soon as possible. It's not a date. As soon as possible is not a reasonable expectation. It's not. It just means different things to different people. So whenever you hear as soon as possible and you don't want to get heartbreak, you don't want to hear delay, delay, delay,

delay. You ask if when you say as soon as possible, what do you mean by that? Or if you're the Ford type, like me, I can't be Ford. So if somebody says as soon as possible, I say, oh, fantastic. So that means we're going to get started by Friday, right? I mean and. One, I'll push out something. Yes, for some of you it's two forward. Don't worry, you don't have to be like me. I'm just giving you all the options. Number one, you can put the ball in person's court.

When you say as soon as possible, what do you mean? What time frame do you have in mind? For me, I'm forward. Some people might even say rude, don't be like me for me, I'm going to put something down so fantastic as soon as possible. So let me if we could get started by Friday and then Chief will now say. Friday. You small boy, isn't all 16,000 lbs dollars we're talking about? You want me to mobilize $16,000 between now and Friday?

Sorry Chief. Now see if you said as soon as possible. Oh. OK. Sorry, Chief. OK. When you said as soon as possible, what do you mean? But either way, I'm trying to force Chief so that both of us can say something concrete as soon as possible. It's not the same thing as saying we're going to start on May 20th. We're starting on May 20th. That one is stronger, especially since you said, OK, to start on May 20th. I need a payment by May 10th.

Oh, May 10th is Sunday. No problem. Let's make it May 11th, Monday. So payment May 11th, start date May 20th. That one is strong. If I'm calling chief to follow up to follow through. It's different. I'm not a pest. We. Both agreed together. But if she says as soon as possible, you say, oh fantastic, I'm looking forward to working with you. So you end the call. When you call him on Friday, you'll be wondering, is it too soon?

Is it too late? Am I being a pest? Am I being a beggar? Am I too forward? Am I too backward? Will it make? These things as clear as possible. So number one question arising, what does as soon as possible mean? Ask or clarify expectations. Then try to gain an advancement. An advancement just means both of you mutually agree that this is the next step. The closer you can get to putting something on the calendar, you know the better.

Then Magic Mike said OK, that after he said as soon as possible, I sent the invoice. Now that's a mistake a lot of us make. Somebody said as soon as possible, you now send invoice. You send invoice without agreeing on when the money was going to come and when we're going to start. OK, no problem. And then he now saw it and said, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Magic Mike, I've seen your invoice and I should make a transfer of the coming week.

And I said OK, sure. No problem, chief. OK, the coming week, then you end the call. Now, if you've been listening and following from the beginning, you already know what I'm going to say next. The coming week, No be timeline. The coming week No be clear expectation the coming week can mean anything for boys like me when you say the coming week today is a Wednesday for me the coming week means Monday there's some people who for them the coming week means we're talking on the Wednesday so therefore I

will transfer the thing on a Wednesday and then some other people the coming week means 1 clear week will pass so I didn't pull up my calendar again yeah yeah I know smartwatch yeah I'm flossing I get so for some people 1 clear week will pass what I mean is the. Today's 6th. What that means is the week of Monday, the 11th all the way to Friday or 15th will pass first. So for people like that, who means one whole week will pass.

When they say the coming week, they actually mean like May 17th, May 18th. Can you say that the coming week means different things to different people? The coming week, no be timeline at all. So question arising is when Chief Odumaigo now says the coming week, you say, oh, fantastic, Chief. Yeah, looking forward to that. In fact, this is your book #3 self. Very, very exciting. I'm even thinking we should start with that.

How about Chief? By the way, when you said the coming week, what do you mean? That's for those of you. OK, maybe some of you say what do you mean it's too aggressive? OK, so when you say the coming week, what do you have in mind Now for me, because I like to be forward, I don't like putting in their courts because some people will say the coming week you say what do you mean? You say, oh you know what, scratch that, let's make it 4

weeks from now. I don't have to be here 4 weeks. I'm trying to collect the money as quick as possible. So I want to ask, let's see. OK, So Chief, when you say the coming week, does that mean we are rolling on Monday? We should be in the studio by Monday, I should mobilize the team by Monday? I will ask and then hear what it is that he has to say. Now, based on what he says, we'll now try and narrow it down again and again and again.

If he says, oh, when I mean the coming week, I mean, you know, after a week I should transfer the money and say, oh, OK, so that means this coming week of Monday 11th up until 17th, we're not taking action on that. So, OK, so that means we should be looking at Monday 18th. Does that sound about right, Sir? I said yeah, we think I should be able to make that happen. OK, so fantastic. No problem. By the time I'm done with this conversation, I'll send an e-mail with a recap and also a WhatsApp message. 1 Chief, you remember that we actually need 70% to start off, So that will be a transfer for $10,000.

Chief, you remember, you know Chief will say yes or you Chief doesn't want to say yes. At least you will now start quarreling about it. Now instead of you, you're expecting $10,000 and then Monday 18th you now see transfer for $5000 and then Chief will now say. 5000. Dollars is money now. Just start. Just start. I'm having the conversation now. Remember clear expectations, clear advancements. So we will have that conversation and we will have it now.

I will either ask Chief what he has in mind while I propose something, but the conversation will happen now so that by the time we're done, it will be clear that I'm expecting $10,000 on the 18th of May. For some of you who think this my example is too high for Luton, you know it's not. They're Nigerians who are charging in dollars, dollars, dollars. If I was all my. Clients who said, oh, I was talking to this guy, blah blah blah blah blah and the guy said the guy said 8000.

That doesn't work for me. In my mind I was now thinking 8000 because the guy provides equipment so and I said so 8000. I said sorry what we're talking about 800,000. This guy said no $8000 and when I was thinking oh so you charge your clients $8000 now when he's me now you now be paying me coins in naira. So anyway. Yeah, there are. There are people who are at that level. Yeah, God willing, me too. I'll be there too when I'm charging people.

Thousands of dollars. Where was I? So coming week then coming week after coming week, now Magic Mike was calling Chief O Dumago. And then Chief was like, oh, I had an accident, I need to recover first, you know, blah, blah, blah. And of course, Magic Mike is a reasonable human being because it makes sense. Now somebody person just say, you know, I've got an accident. They somehow to be saying, oh, OK, sorry, get well soon.

Yeah. But Chief, when you transfer my money, you know, it's somehow it's tone deaf. We should not be tone deaf, so Magic Mike now wanted to sympathize instead of applying pressure. And that makes. A lot of sense. So the question arising now is how can you sympathize without applying pressure? So first of all, you offer your normal, you know, it depends on you and your relationship or whatever thing you normally say. This is about where you say that God forbid.

Anyway, we thank God for life, the immediate life. Sorry you the injury is not too much you know blah blah blah blah blah. These are enemies they will never succeed for us in 2026 or Amen blah blah blah. This is what about your family? How are they of your wife is not really freaking out too much you know blah blah blah. You know that kind of conversation. Then you also ask a few questions to understand the path to recovery.

Like I was talking to someone the person went ghost after a while when we connected turns out the person was in a very very bad accident. I was like sorry hope the kids are not in the car. No no no it's not the kids was just him. Everything I've had currently is a physios Cesario. And this. Physio thing, like when my auntie was doing physio for I was like 10 months, they said no, I'll not be. Like that now, no. No, no.

No, no, like we're done with the surgery. So physio, yeah I should be done in about 6 weeks. You see from having a conversation with this guy and I knew that oh, OK, six weeks is kind of a reasonable time to recover and then I now knew how to pace my own follow up accordingly. But you will ask conversations. So I say ask conversations. You will engage in a conversation, you will ask some questions based on the surrounding conversation, the information based on the spokesman info that drop.

You will now know how to pace yourself. Whether you. Close mark the guy. And yes, I agree, close marking somebody who's been involved in an accident is in bad taste. From the. Conversation you you know so that is how you can sympathize without applying pressure you call the person you find out you will genuinely be shocked you know sympathize OK blah blah blah you're on the path to recovery we thank God blah blah blah blah blah if you can't get any extra details maybe you can be done propose something say ah we found what everything turned out well so chief I guess this means that we should just this thing should be on the back border now for like another kind two months Abby and I hear what chief has to say if chief says honestly I need more than two two months I'm thinking maybe let's revisit this thing in December OK no problem they know that that's.

It December. In this case, Chief was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's not that deep. It's not that deep. It's just the car that got destroyed. You know, I'm like, I'm OK. The doctors say I should be up and doing by so, so, so, so. In fact, I have to see if I can be up and doing before so, so, so and so did. So OK, no problem. Based on what Chief have said, you now know how to continue with follow up, how to continue to mark him.

Then based on what? Chief said We agreed that, you know, in the future, but not too far. Then after that, sorry, some of you will be wondering that this story is beginning to have too much key leg. Yes, I'm. Glad that you have seen that this story is beginning to have too much key leg. I'm glad you have seen that this story is beginning to get too much corner corner. The corner Corner happens when you're not on top of your game from the beginning.

If. You are not getting clear advancements if you are not getting clear directions, clear agreement. This is what we're doing well. This is the next step. This is how your story will be getting Corner Corner. Then you now. Start saying that Nigerians are indecisive. Nigerians are not indecisive. You are not handling your sales processes properly. That is where all these K leg and this Ben Bend is entering the situation.

I'm glad that you're frustrated about how the story is taking long. It's taking long because you, the business person have allowed it to take long. I hope you guys are feeling me. If this story is if the bend bend is too much for you and this kind of corner corner has happened to you, the corner corner was your fault, not the client's fault. The client is just living their own life. Priority is changing. Things are happening.

You're the one that didn't stay on top of it. Have you noticed that when we go to the medical doctor, the doctor doesn't leave it up to us? The doctor tells us in advance we've taken these tests, I expect to see you back here in six weeks so that we can review results. The doctor will tell you, the doctor will take charge. That is the reason why I say any Nigerian business person, pretend you're a medical doctor. That is the best way to organize your business.

Just pretend you're a doctor. The doctor knows he's the specialist. The doctor takes charge. The doctor is interacting with the client and they're coming up with next steps and guidelines and you know everything. If you don't learn anything from me. The next time you go to the hospital and you're interacting with a medical doctor, pay attention to what the doctor is doing, especially if this is something that requires a long term case management.

Pay attention to the way the doctor is, you know, doing his thing. Then take those same principles apply to your business. You'll be all right. So anyway, and the last conversation, Magic Michael and Chief Odumaigohat remember not their real names. So Michael is doing very well, but you guys say you want to travel, you all enter E, then from the east you will come back to Lagos. Then he will now consider making the payment on Monday.

So that was good. Now. Question arising. When? Chief say I will consider, by the way, this is quotation when Chief say I will consider making a payment on Monday. If you've been listening, I'm following. You know what I'm going to say now. What? Does that mean I will consider making a payment on Monday is not the same thing as I will make a payment on Monday. Now, there are different ways of going about it, but either way,

you will ask Chief. A question. Mr. Oh, Chief, you said consider making the payments achieve this. Consider. OK. When you say consider making a payment, what does that mean? He might say, oh, I'm having a meeting with my accountant on Monday. It is then I will know my cash position, especially after the accident, and then we'll be able to know whether we're moving forward or not. You say, oh, OK. Thanks chief. I just wanted to understand better so when I.

Call you on Monday. It's just to find out how the meeting with you and the accountant went, is that correct? So she would say yes, OK, cool, no problem. So I'll call you on Monday to see about the accountant meeting. Good. Expectations are becoming clearer because for me I'm very optimistic and I'd like to count my money before it hatches. Unfortunately my mom still give me advice on that because sometimes she comes to visit.

I talk to somebody. By the time I get off the phone based on what the person say, I already start planning. OK school fees is coming, DSTV this is not that. In my head I'm ready spending the money. My mother will say relaxed now as the guy transferred say no no. But I think this will, my mom will say, look like stop this rubbish. Don't count your. Chickens before they hatch. So for optimistic people like me, when somebody says I'll consider making a payment on Monday, in my mind I will tell my wife that God has done it to money is coming on Monday.

Because I'm. Optimistic. So to protect myself, I also saw that it is clear to Chief. I'll ask Chief, OK, consider making a payment. What does that mean? Asking a question. Now me, I'm on the mall forward side. So I will say, oh, fantastic. So we're finally going to start. So, Chief, does that mean I can tell the boys that? By. 10 AM we're going to see the 10K deposit. Dollars so that we can continue. Yeah, for some of you it's two forward.

But don't worry, don't try it my way. Just know that the approach is question by the time I ask it like that, Chief. Now clarify. I said no, no, no, no, no, no. I told you about the accident now so sorry. Sorry, Chief, I forgot. Me and the accountant are going to see on Monday will consider my position. We now know whether we can move then also. Oh, OK, no problem. In that case, no problem. I'll mobilize the boys. I'll just call you on Monday to find out how far say.

OK. Cool. No problem. So, Chief I. Can call you like by. 12 ABI, Yeah, 12 is OK, OK, no problem. We are now clearer. Instead of assuming I'll consider making the payment on Monday, means that money is coming on Monday. So that's. One question arising now, Magic Mike said. I'm concerned because all this change, change, change becoming repetitive. I think I'm making progress, then something, I think I'm making progress, then something,

blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. And that's exactly what I said. As Magic Mike is frustrated, you, the listener of the story, you're frustrated. It is good that we are frustrated at this point. Just know that the frustration is not the customer's problem. It's not the customer's fault. It is our own fault. If anybody they frustrate me is not the person's fault. I am the one who allowed myself to be frustrated.

Listen up, please. We are the entrepreneurs, the business peoples, the founders, the CEOs, the whatever we. Take. Responsibility for how this thing is going to turn out. We're adults here. We can't. Keep blaming other people for our problems. So yes, you should be frustrated. The reason why the frustration is coming is because of any of these questions arising, matters arising that I spoke about. Now, Magic Mike spoke about how he's been telling Chief about,

oh, it's important that we get started soon because we're dealing with seven books. So Magic Mike has been trying to inject urgency into the situation. Remember BANTT timelines? So Magic Mike had been trying to inject timeline into the situation. And that, that's the problem. Yes, lots of American marketing groups have taught us to manufacture urgency. But here's the truth. Apart. From online retail, the rest of us can't manufacture urgency.

We just can't. We can't force somebody to move before they are ready. We can't. People in online retail, they can't do that. So if Amazon says oh, Black Friday this that that that that 50% off before. Before March. Before May 25th, we know that we have better act now because if we go May 26th, Amazon will say sorry, promotion has ended. They have those options. The rest of us. Consultants. Accountants, architects, people in book publishing, people in audio and video.

We just can't manufacture that kind of urgency. We just can't. The dynamics are different, so please stop trying to manufacture urgency or inject urgency into the situation. The better thing to do is to work with the urgency that the person already has. Try and discover what the urgency is and work with it. Let the person say their own timeline. You will now be the professional and keep them on track with the timeline that they disclosed.

Also when it is the other person who has disclosed the timeline and you are the one who is now doing project management to keep them on track. You are not being a pest. It's just a matter of like, ah, chief, this is what you told me. Now if you wanted. Those done by August 7th, you know that's. The reason why I'm on this, you're the one that said by August 7th, everything should be live. This book should be produced. We want it to be considered for the Ana Awards.

Ana is that association of Nigerian authors that be you want it ready for Ana awards. Ana is in October. So Chief, we both agree that this is supposed to be book should be done by August. Now in that case, you're not being a pest. You're not simply holding chief to what it is that Chief said. If you're the one that's trying to manufacture urgency that are chief the book is plenty is this that that is 7 projects we're supposed to start now you will come across as a pest.

So that is why T is important T T in bands BANTT timelines. How soon would you? Like us to get started you. Ask them how soon would you want us to get started? Chief? I hope you don't mind me asking what timelines do you have? Chief will now say it. OK, several books. This is a very tall order. Hope you don't mind me asking Chief, is there any specific events that you are working towards? And left Chief say Chief will say OK, I'm clocking 70 in December and I want these books ready before then so that at my 70th birthday party that my children are planning for me will use it to launch these books.

You can see now the timeline has come from Chief himself. It's not me manufacturing anything. I will now be able to walk backwards I. Will now be able to walk backwards and say OK, no problem chief. For the books. To be ready. For your birthday in December, we should have gotten ISBN number by so, so, so and so date. So therefore, let's give, you know, six weeks. Then for ISBN date, we need to submit the books to the international publishing authorities.

Something, something, one thing, one thing, you know, 4 weeks before. So let's just give another four weeks gap. OK? Based on this another 4 weeks the book. Production or now I'll take like 8 weeks, so let's give another eight weeks gap. For that equates gap, it brings us now to this time for the book itself to be produced. You know me and the boys who are working on it, we need like 5 weeks to do so, blah, blah, blah.

So Chief, based on what you have said for your 70th birthday party which is coming up in December, if we are to hit this December 27th, your birthday party chief, we must start this thing by so, so, so, so, so date. But the. Date has come from Chief Odomega himself. This is. The best way to run things, remember. People in online retail, they can manufacture urgency, 70% off, blah, blah. They can do that. We can't. Nobody would take us seriously if I announce you on the podcast that, oh, I'm giving 50% of our conversations consultations between now and, you know, so Suzanne Suhan, blah, blah, blah,

blah. Blah blah blah like you. Guys don't really take me seriously. A couple of you will show up, but some of you will say, OK, the thing ended ended April first. Let me try my luck. This is April 3rd. Let me try my luck. Am I lying? By the way, that's also the reason why I said in the previous podcast episode that if you want to try this whole manufacturing urgency thing, stick to it. If you tell them 1st of April somebody calls you at 12 O

person calls you on calls you 12 O 6 on April 2nd you say Oh no I'm sorry it expired on midnight you say, I say Bros not be midnight today. So no, no midnight was actually 6 minutes ago. It has expired. Stand your ground if you must basha. Use. Their own urgency. Don't try and inject it into the situation. So Magic Mike now says OK, he's debating. Should I call this guy? 'Cause I want to. Stress him that look, we need to get this project off the ground to avoid further disappointments.

Magic Mike is asking should I call the guy? Now this is the answer to the question. You're in this situation, you're frustrated. I get it. You're wondering, should I even call? The answer is. A. Capital, YES. The answer is yes, because we as the founder, as the CEO, as a salesperson, as the business owner, as the whatever, we always take the initiative. We never wait on the prospect. Let me repeat that again because some of you didn't catch that.

We always take the initiative. We are adults here. We never wait on the prospect. This is the. Reason why we never wait on the prospect. Indecision. Sometimes they're tired, sometimes they're confused, sometimes things are going on. Chief thinks it's a good idea, but B has found out now that maybe his second wife is, you know, seeing one small boy from university. These things happen. Because. Of that Chief's mind is no longer in the right place.

You don't take the initiative. You know chief will be focusing on settling his side chick instead of getting this project off the ground indecision competition. Some people will swoop in some other person will say, oh chief, I had a launching so so so and so book my son is into blah blah blah, come and talk to my son. That is competition. You and chief are having good rapport. Another person says come and talk to my son Wah Allah.

Competition has entered the matter and then changing priorities like with the accident. This is why we take the initiative and we never wait on the prospect. Indecision can happen, competition can happen, changing priorities can happen. We always take the initiative so. You're frustrated. Pick up that phone and make the call. This is why we're in the big money and This is why we charge in dollars. It's our job. Pick up the phone or drive to Chief's house.

Don't bother sending e-mail. e-mail has low response and at this stage with all this corner corner corner corner, e-mail won't help you. OK maybe what's up or text message but sure. If you know chief's house, pick up your car keys. Drive to the house or pick up the phone. See when I say. Pick up the car keys and drive to the house. It's because you know, it's chief and we're charging in dollars and it's big money. So if he clicks, you know, it's not a waste.

Oh, yeah, call now, Magic Mike. His main concern is this. He's wondering, is his smart business move to secure the deal or? If I do this. Will I sound desperate? And I understand. A lot of us end up in that situation. Corner, corner story, story. OK Like change here, change here, change here Next week, next week, tomorrow, tomorrow, next month, next month. When I wonder Kai, I'm beginning to feel like a beggar, Like I'm a beggar and I'm chasing somebody up and down.

The person said The person doesn't even rate me. Person no, send me now. This is how you follow up. And by the way, remember there's no follow up in sales we. Say follow through, I'll explain later. This. Is how you follow up with someone and you don't appear desperate at the same time. If the focus is on you, you will always appear desperate. If the focus is on you and how much money you want to take, you will always appear desperate.

Always. No matter how posh you sound, no matter how smooth you dress, no matter how sophisticated you are, if the focus is always on you, you, you, you, you, they will know that you are hungry. So continue with the follow up most, but the focus is never on you. The focus should be on them, which is why, if you've noticed the questions that I have been suggesting here, I've always started off with oh, chief, what do you mean?

I'm pushing it into chiefs priorities. I want to know what he means. What you know, he I'm getting the timeline from him. I'm getting the priorities from him. I'm getting the directions from him. All I'm doing is I'm being a good professional like I should be, and I'm making sure that we stay on track. That Chief, for us to meet your birthday, which is December 27th, we absolutely need to get started on so, so, so and so date.

Is this something that we can make happen, chief? And now put it back to him. If he says yes, we can make it happen. Good. I'm trying to secure the next advancement also fantastic. So in our case, can we expect a 70% deposit for so so amount by so, so so and so date. Yes, we can. OK, cool. So Chief, I'm going to tell the boys that we're moving on for so, so and date. Can I hold you to that? So of course now, yeah, you can.

OK, Cool, Chief. That's not a problem. I will call you by so so so and so date. To be sure that we're still on course for the transfer, then you now go and set reminders on your phone so that one week before you send Chief a message. Looking forward to the project starting, looking forward to it. I'm already getting good ideas for book #3 #4 #5. In fact, I will come see you in the house so that we'll discuss in two days too.

So Chief, I hope we're still on track for the payment of the money by Monday. So, so, so, so Chief would say yes, OK, fantastic. After you make the payment, Chief, me and my team will come to your house. So that we. Can discuss specific ideas around book 3-4 and five. Then on the day of you will send chief a message that oh, getting the team ready. We're just typing out the details that we have for the whatever I'm looking forward to seeing the proposal soon.

Then when the money clears, bring him. You will now call him Chief. Thank you very much. Received the transfer. Are you at home so that me and my team can come by so that we can discuss the, the proposals for book 3-4 and five that we spoke about. Oh yes, come to the and then you see, we, we move on, making progress. If it's always about you or we need to get started, we need to get started. We need to this, we need to we need, we need.

If it's no, you'll be desperate. So it's always about him, him, him, him or her, the customer, get the priorities from them, get the timelines for them. And then you're just calling to keep them on track. The last time we spoke, Chief, you said. So I'm just trying to remind you. The last time we spoke, you said. And remember, December 27th is the goal false to hear that we actually need to do. Oh, Chief, the last time we spoke you said.

According. To our agreed timeline, Chief, we're actually now behind schedule that December 27th looking like it's not going to work anymore. Like you are just being a professional once you take the priority and you take the direction from them. Now somebody will ask when should I stop following up? Should I just continue at the follow up anyhow anyhow? Like can I just do this thing in in in perpetuity? The answer is no.

Now people have different yardsticks. There's someone who I work with one of my clients, his own personal standard is 3 times and then he will leave it. I tried three times, I didn't make progress. I will leave it on to the next one. Now that's a bit drastic, but The thing is, at least he has a rule for when to get this thing off his chest and when to move on. Because the more time that you're spending following up on Chief Omegle, especially if this Chief Omegle thing is not going to work, is.

Time wasted that you could have been spent. Chasing other people, yes, Chief Omegle zone is big because it's 12,006 thousand $20,000. So he's big, he's good. It's good money, especially when the bank translates it into 9. In fact, the first time the bank did it for me, I was angry because they told me how much we were going to take in Commission and everything. I was really, really angry. How much am I going to receive?

At the end of the day? They couldn't really tell me. But even plus their charges, the one I entered my account in nine, I said oh OK. I showed my wife. I was like, we thank God. So yes, cheap zone is 20,000. If you spend a lot of time chasing Chief and this Chief 1 is not going to click, you lose sight of the 2000 dollars, 1000 dollars $5000 2003 $100 that you could have been chasing with other people. It's not fantastic at Chief zone, but still is some there's opportunity cost.

Investing all this time with Chief means that you're not investing so much time with other people. So don't follow. Up in perpetuity, there's a time to stop. Now, this is my own rule. I don't say three times and then stop, but let's just say you don't like heartbreak. So for you it's three times. I'll stop, you know, fantastic. But for me, it's you stop when there's no more value in the interactions. Every single time I call Chief,

there is no more value that I'm bringing to this situation. Or every single time I call Chief, there's no more value that he's adding to my life. I'm not adding value to him. He's not adding value to me. OK, then we'll stop it. But so long as it looks like I'm adding value, I'm giving him insights keeping us on track we're. Securing. Advancements, I will continue. We're not securing advancements. When I call him, there's nothing really to say.

He's not getting insights out of it. Like there's no value in it for him. There's no value in it for me. Yeah. Then I'll stop. So, so long as there's value to deliver to the. Situation or there's value that can be extracted in the situation. I'll continue. When I can. Tell myself honestly that look no. Value in this again, then I'll stop. But yes, there are some extreme people like that. My own client who his own is 3

who called the first time, called the second time, called the third time, and then that's it. I'm done. If they call me, they call me, but if not, I'm off. I'm moving on to somebody else. But yeah, don't follow up in perpetuity. So that's it and that's all for today. Sorry that this is a long episode. Is this your first time listening to the podcast? I hope you've learned a couple of tips and tricks about how to deal with, you know, delay payments, postponement you.

Know. Conversation, you know, Kayla. Conversation he's doing. Ben, Ben, I hope you've learned a few things about how to keep things on track. Now if you'd love to connect with me, just call me, send me a text message or a WhatsApp message on 08064662140. If you'd like to join my WhatsApp channel, the number to call, text or send a WhatsApp is 08064662140 so. That's. All for today, thanks for your time and attention. And don't worry, I'll try and make sure that the next podcast episode is going to be shorter.

In fact, I promise you the next one won't pass 30 minutes so. That's it, I'll. Catch you at the next episode.