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Hello and welcome to the podcast. This is the third part, the 3rd and the final part of a three-part series. We've been looking at a case study. Yeah, we've been looking at a case study of Fresh Prince, again, not his real name, who is in the roofing sales industry in Lagos and who is underperforming. So he has general poor performance and also he has a troublesome client in particular that he's trying to deal with. So if this is your first time listening to the podcast, after you're done listening to this,
scroll back listening to the two episodes before this one so you get the full picture. So let's see, 2 episodes ago, we explored how if you want to diagnose the reason why he's not performing well, we'd have to look at the quality of the prospects, you know, the quality of the potential customers that he is talking to. You know, the people that he's running after want to be sure that they match the ideal customer profile.
Then we also explored how we need to look at the conversation frameworks that he's using because sales is all about having conversations with people essentially. So if you're new to this or if you're struggling, you actually need to have a framework. A framework is just a mind map or a guide. That should all I put it now. Now I'll let you know the key things that you need to hit in a conversation. So the problem with a bunch of you are struggling in sales is that you don't have, you're not using any kind of conversation framework.
So every single time you talk to a potential customer, you talk to a stakeholder, you talk to an investor, you talk to, you know, whoever, essentially, you're just freestyling. And the problem with freestyling is you can't really improve upon anything because you don't know what works, You don't know what didn't work. And also the problem with freestyling is that it's very tiring. It's very, very tiring. You meet some people, today you're freestyling, tomorrow you're freestyling.
The day after your freestyling, after two weeks, you will be knackered, like you'll be completely tired. You'll be zonked, like you'll be wiped out, like nobody can keep that up every single day. Just be freestyling creativity, coming up with new things every single day. And that is tiring. So what you just need is a simple framework that's just guiding you through the conversation. So if after you're done listening to this podcast episode, you know, skip back to my episodes, listen to that, you will see some conversation frameworks that we explored.
Let's see. Yeah. So those are some of the things that we explored in Episode 1. Then in Episode 2, we tried to look at whether it's a bad idea, whether it's bad that he hasn't closed the deal in about 3 months and I can't remember. OK. So we said, you know, it depends, it depends on the typical sales cycle. So if we know what the sales cycle is for roofing sales, roofing sheets in Nigeria, then we, you know, we'll know whether that's good or not.
Then we looked at the sales cycle for residential roofing sales, commercial roofing sales, government contracts, you know, things like that. So those are the sorts of things to look at to determine whether you're doing a good job or not. So let's say you're in business and your business is, let's say you sell IBO. When I say IBO on this broadcast, I mean weed. So let's say you sell weed and you haven't sold any weed in,
you know, one week. Is that a good thing or, you know, is, is that a good thing or not? You know, it depends. What is the sales cycle for selling weed? So my own assumption is that if you sell weed, you should be any, you know, I'm not in that. I'm not in that industry. Let me just put it that way. I don't use and I don't sell, but it is my assumption that, you know, people who need weed are looking for a good product,
you know, all the time. So my guess is if you can't sell IBO in in one week, then you're a bad salesperson. Because I'm assuming that the sales cycle for the sale of IBO should be like, it should be like 5 minutes. It's a matter of oh boy, alpha, now you get weed. You say I get now which one, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You transfer the money I have. So if in one week you haven't sold, then you're a terrible salesperson.
You should. If you're selling weed and it's taking you one week to close the customer, you're a terrible salesperson. Really, really terrible. So it depends then let's see. OK, so those are the things that we looked at in the past two episodes. Then what I promised you guys we're going to look at today was that our guy Fresh Prince. Remember, Fresh Prince is not his real name. Fresh Prince has one troublesome client, one troublesome customer that he's dealing with.
And I want us to look at that today because I know that 5060, even 70% of you are dealing with this kind of person. If you, if you're not dealing with this person at the moment, I know that this kind of person will cross your path. You know, it's my prayer that God will keep this kind of customers away from us. But you know how for do they're out there and they exist and they play some useless games. And you know, it's just one of these things.
So we should be prepared because if you have not met this kind customer before, I promise you, you'll see him soon or you'll see how soon it was just like my own experience. Usually they're men. I've met a woman who who plays these kinds of games. Oh, apologies. By the way, I'm making today's recording out and about. It's a Saturday. The kids are at cat kissing classes, so I'm just chilling in the car park trying to get some work done.
So sorry for the noise coming in. Oh, by the way, if you'd love to connect with me, just like our our guy Fresh Prince did. Again, not his real name. So if you'd like to connect with me, just like Fresh Prince, you can call me, send me a text message or a WhatsApp message on 08064662140. If you want me to look at your business processes. If you have a couple of questions, it's the same number 08064662140. Or if you just want to be on my WhatsApp channel, that is not a problem.
Send me a message on the same number and I'll hook you up. So to the troublesome client now, so Fresh Prince now went for a business exhibition. And that's a good thing to do to drum up customers because it's not just social media that we should be doing. We should also be looking for activities that involve us going out to talk to people. Because the thing about trying to grow your business by using social media and content marketing and things like that is it's a medium to long term play.
In other words, if you're going to rely on Internet alone, do not expect to close business in less than, you know, three to five years on average, on average. Of course, you know, it depends on the, it also depends on the, on the industry. So like if you're coming in brand new to, let's say wedding photography and doing wedding video and stuff like that, OK, you can be posting, photo posting, video posting, photo posting.
And you know, maybe in like, you know, 2-3 months, some people will say, oh, how fun and how much do you cost? But for this kind of thing, you know, like roofing sheets, you'll take a while. So you should be running things on both ends. One way of looking at it is there are two different business philosophies that is outbound and then inbound. So inbound, inbound is a philosophy or a principle of marketing or principle of, you know, drumming of business that has you doing stuff so that people find you attractive and then they reach out to you, they come in to you.
That's why it's called inbound. So social media is a form of inbound. So people say advertising is a form of inbound. You know, people argue here and there, although for me I think advertising is, I think advertising is more of outbound. But anyway, you do things that 'cause people to run after you, that is inbound. Then there's another business philosophy which is outbound. Outbound is when you go out and start chasing people.
So going to exhibitions, going to trade fairs. So for someone like Fresh Prince, going to Abuja International Trade Fair, going to Lagos Real Estate, no ABI, Lagos Housing Fair, something, something, you know, all these different shows, that's a good form of our bound. So Fresh Prince went to this exhibition now and he met somebody there and he thought the person was a correct guy, which is normal because when you go for these sorts of things,
you meet correct people. But then things started getting strange. They've had a couple of conversations and Fresh Prince has sent this guy, let's call him Big Boss. So Fresh Prince has said Big Boss 3 rounds of quotes. I repeat, Fresh Prince, again, not his real name, has sent Big Boss 3 rounds of quotes, 123. Now you can see why. I'm sure some of you can relate. You send somebody a quote, the person was saying it's too expensive.
You send another quote, it's too expensive. Send another quote is too expensive. Now my question for anyone who is at this point like Fresh Prince, you send somebody 3 rounds of quotes. My question is why? Like why are you sending somebody 3 rounds of quotes before you send somebody even one quote, even 11 quote, one invoice. You should have had a couple of conversations with the person to try and figure out is this person serious?
Is there a sense of urgency around this person, or is this person the kind of person that will waste your time. I repeat, before you end up sending somebody 3 rounds of quotes, you send the first quotes to expensive, second quote to the expensive third quote. Too expensive. You should have been asking some questions right from the get. Is this person serious? Is there a sense of urgency? Does it look like they're ready to make a decision anytime soon?
Is this the kind of person who wastes my time? Is this person that worker pass? Is this person the time waster like you? You should have asked the person a couple of questions so that you know where you stand. My own personal philosophy. Not lots of people agree with me, but it's my own personal philosophy. I only send a quote or an invoice as a confirmation. I repeat I only send a quote or an invoice as a confirmation.
As per we have used mouth and we have spoken about everything we have agreed. So me sending the quote is just a matter of oh OK before you transfer the bar here is this paper that shows exactly what it is that we agreed on. So typically I'm only sending 1 and I'm sending at the end. For some people I'm not even sending quotes at all. All I'm sending is here's my account details. But of course, you know, for the roofing sheets and stuff like that, you know, you can't be operating based on account details for that kind of industry.
So, you know, you guys keep things a bit more formal. Butcher. I think I'll make some more podcast episodes about that. But please let us stop using quotes. Let us stop using invoices as a part of our sales process. The quote or the invoice should not be a part of our sales process they think that we're using to move the deal forward. The quote or the invoice is the final thing that we should be sending at the end so that we can collect our money.
So OK, yeah, let me just leave it like that. We should not be sending anybody even one round of quoting if we don't know whether they're serious, if we don't know whether they're ready to take action anytime soon. If we can't figure out whether this guy is serious or be this guy will waste my time or this or this babe go waste my time, we should not even send one quote. So the only way that we're going to be able to do that is if we use some of the conversation frameworks that I refer to in Part 1.
So for those of you who are listening to this podcast for the first time, you see why I say, look, it's important. Just skip back and listen. Get the full picture. So you use the conversation frameworks in Part 1. And one of those conversation frameworks that I spoke about was banned BANT. It's an acronym. B stands for budget, A stands for authority, N stands for need, T stands for timeline. Now for those of you who are more experienced, you guys who say bands is elementary, now that is jam bite levels that are much more effective conversation frameworks and stuff like that,
no problem. I agree. I won't argue. The reason why I've been talking a lot about bands is just because it's a conversation framework that only has four elements. BANT 12344 elements means easy to remember. So it's the kind of thing that you can be talking to somebody and in your head you can be taking it off. OK BI Don't they ask B questions? OK, No problem. A OK, I don't they ask A questions. OK, And I don't they ask any questions.
OK, TI Don't they ask T questions all the other qualification frameworks that are much more intricate and much more OK, no problem. 10 steps. 15 steps. Yeah, no problem. Good luck trying to remember 15 steps when you're having a conversation with someone. So that is not a bad place to start, but I'm not recommending it because it's the best. So like I said, each thing, each item stands for something. Budget, authority, need timeline.
Budget just means money conversation. You suppose they have money, money conversations with people like early and often, quickly and often so that you know where you stand from the beginning. It is a waste of time if your product is 35 million, but then you're talking to somebody who the person you know the person is like an 18,000,000 somebody. The gap between 30 something million and 18,000,000 is almost double. I think it's more than double self.
You can't, you can't make up that gap. If your product is 35 million, it'll be nice to know if you're talking to a 30 million naira person, you know, you now know that. OK, You know, we'll be harsh sharp because you know the gap between 30 million and 35,000,000 is 5 million. We'll be hard sharp, but we go raw farm, we'll make it happen. So you need to be having budget conversations early, money conversations early. At some point, Fresh Prince, I'm assuming you did this, but just in case you didn't and for the benefit of people who are listening for the first time and who don't do stuff like this, at some point, Fresh Prince, when you are having the conversation with Big Boss after the exhibition, you should have said, oh, Big Boss, you know,
truly, truly my bad. Only thing that you're doing, I'd like to work with you guys. But Boss, based on all the specs when we don't have so far the way you describe this project and everything, honestly speaking here, this is the sort of thing that with my own company would be able to deliver the project at anything between 40 million on the high end. So about 45,000,000 on the low end. Is this an amount that you're willing to invest in?
You just say it with your mouth and put it out there. You say it, you put it out, and then you wait. From the way Big Boss, from from his voice or from his body language, you know, from the way he will hesitate or from the way he will smile or whatever. You will know the kind of person you're dealing with if you say based on all the things you're spoken about so far, projects like this typically would come in at about 45,000,000 on the high end to about 40 million on the low end.
How does that sound to you? Is this the sort of thing you're willing to invest in? Do you have any quotes that match those figures? You know, something like that. You just put the the range out there and then you try and get some feedback. Now if Big Boss responds and says 45,000,000 on high end, Oh yeah, sure, that sounds about right. You now know that. OK, we can continue talking because he said it sounds about right.
It doesn't mean that you will close this deal, but at least we now know that. OK, we are closer to talking to someone who might be a serious prospect if you start sending this kind of person quotes. OK, no problem. At least you had the money conversation so that when you send the first one and the person says it's too high, you'll say, ah, boss chief, you know big boss, you know why we spoke? You said 45 M sounds about right.
This figure that I gave you now 43 M now. So waiting upon like what's going on? You can now legitimately ask because before he used his own mouth to say 45 sounds about right. So now they've given 43. What's going on? You can see that now you can ask, and you're not even asking a way that is too pushy because you're just seeking clarification on something that Big Boss used his own mouse to say before. So B budget, you should be having money conversations.
Have them early and have them often. Don't use the quote. Don't use the invoice to start the money conversation. I repeat, don't use the invoice. Don't use the quote to start the money conversation. Use your mouth to start the money conversation when you're in front of chief in the office. So I said chief Big Boss, I mean, I think it's Big Boss, I said. So when you're in front of Big Boss in the office, use your mouth and start the money conversation.
When you have Big Boss on the phone, use your mouth and start the money conversation. Don't start money conversations in print. Don't start money conversations over WhatsApp. Don't start money conversations over text message. Don't start money conversations over e-mail. Don't start money conversations over quotes. Don't start money conversations over invoice. Don't start money conversations apart from, you know, eye to eye or mouth to mouth like I am seeing you, you are seeing me or I am talking to you, you are talking to me.
That is the time and the best opportunity to start the money conversation. When we have started it like this, first face to face or over the phone, we can now continue to be pricing over WhatsApp or whatever. But the conversation should start with your mouth, right? Fresh Prince or anybody in this situation, start with the mouth. It will save you a lot of all these quote, quote, quote, quote back and forth. I know some people that have sent you know like four or five quotes.
Now I'm serious. Last year I know someone who sent 5 quotes. Nothing is effing frustrating. I don't know how you guys keep up with it. I send one quote, then I send another, then I send another, then I send another. Nothing is madding. So B budget money conversations. Have them early, have them often. Then authority. Authority in the framework of bands is when you're trying to figure out who it is that I'm dealing with and whether the person can authorize the transaction, whether the person can make the decision for us to go ahead.
Because there are some people who can only say no, but they can't say yes. I repeat for some of you who didn't get it. There are some people who can only say no, but they can't say yes. Now, let's say you're talking to Big boss because you think Big boss is actually the big boss. But meanwhile, let's say Big boss is just. Let's say Big boss is just the MD. But then as MD he has to report to CEO and CEO has to report to a member of the board so that the board can approve the expenses.
In this case, even though when you first saw him, you thought he was the big boss, really, really he is not the big boss because he's MDMD is answering to CEO and then before the expense is approved, CEO has to report to the board. You are not talking to somebody who has authority. You're talking to somebody who is a credible person and a serious person within the chain, but the ultimate authority to say, Oh yeah, go ahead, transfer 40 million.
He's not that person. That is what a authority stands for. So we should always be trying to figure out this person that I'm talking with, Sir, who am I talking to? Is this the very last bus stop? Now, the guy, be this or not, we need to know. Too many of us are investing time talking with people, but we've not had the authority conversations. So at some point Fresh Prince, when you're having the conversation with Big Boss, of course you never ask anybody,
are you the big boss? That's an insult. Now be asking them, are you the big boss? No, no, no, no, you, you do it with style. So you talk, you say, oh, based on the spectrum spoken about so far, this project could come in anything between 45,000,000 on the high end. So about 40 million on the low end. Is this the kind of investment that your company is willing to make? And the person says that 40 million, is it negotiable?
And you say Big Boss, everything is negotiable now nobody Niger, we do, you know, but we'll have to know some more about the project. But yeah, sure, everything is negotiable now because Big boss said that 40 million, is it negotiable? You now know that, OK, I'm dealing with somebody who is closer to a 40 million kind of person. You now know that there's there's hope, OK, that sharp 38,000,037, maybe 35 million like it can work when we start negotiating.
So we move on. That is money budget. You now say, oh, OK, So Big Boss typically for these kinds of projects when our clients want to approve them, for some companies it requires board approval. Is that the same in this case? And the big boss says, Oh yeah, sure, board approval is going to be required. You now know that apart from Big Boss, ultimately the final bus stop is the board. Then you now say you will now stylishly try and throw some answers like, oh, oh, OK,
really. So at the at the board meeting, are you going to make the presentation directly or is this something you route through your CEO? And then he says, Oh no, there's no CEO. You know, I'm the MD, I'm the final bus stop. It's just me and the board. OK, good. Now in your mind you now know that it's just two people you're talking to him. Ultimately he has to submit to the board. At least now you know ahead of time. So stylishly in future conversations you will now try and be finding out like when the board is supposed to meet.
So in future conversations you'll be like when was the last board meeting yourself? And then he'll say, oh, that happened 2 weeks ago. You are now nodded in your head that oh OK, it happened 2 weeks ago. Currently this is the middle of the month. So therefore, the board meets at the beginning of every single month. You see, this is how you stylishly ask for information. You can just ask people, you know, how often does the board meet?
OK, well, you can ask how often does the board meet and get away with it. But I'll put it keep a conversational, you know, this is not an interrogation. So that is authority. So need. OK, now I know for sure that Fresh Prince has done the need come in fact, Fresh Prince let me online when I saw the three quotes, I was doubtful that did you even discuss need at first. Because when you discuss need for roofing sheets, that is when you actually do all the, the maths or the calculation.
You know, what is angle of elevation, what is angle of incline, what is angle of decline, what is the wingspan, how many roofing sheets, you know, blah, blah, blah, You know, And so for this kind of businesses like this, you know, these are the the fixed material that is what's going to determine the, the cost. And Fresh Prince, your quotation, you went from 18,000,000, you now dropped to 15,000,000 from 15,000,000 you now dropped to 12 million.
And I'm wondering that did you do N need need analysis? Because if we did need analysis, I don't see how first from your, from your quote, 3,000,000 will just come out after that another 3,000,000 again. In fact, have you noticed that every single time Fresh Prince, you talk to Big Boss and he gives you a push, you remove three M you don't think he has already figured out that every single time he says too expensive. He knows the way he says too expensive, you will come out three.
So he knows all he has to do. He says, ah, this 12 million is too expensive. And then you will now drop it to what's that 12 -, 9 That's I mean 12 minus 399 million. Now those will be listening for the first time. I mean, sorry, those people are regular listeners. Can you see why I say I hate discounts? When you are discounting price, you're, you're just, you're devaluing your offer. You're causing people to not rate you.
They know they rate you again, all they have to do is just stand firm and say too expensive and then you drop like that. And sometimes when you people drop, sometimes you will drop too big. 18 to 15, that's 3,000,015 to 12. That's three million. It means much. Even if you want to go down, somebody says it's too expensive. How about moving from 18 million to, I don't know, 17.5. You know, you don't have to be just cutting, cutting, cutting like that.
But anyway, all these negotiation game and not nothing had so don't don't even bother playing that game. My own opinion, don't even bother playing that game. So where was IN need? You should be having the conversation. Excuse me, having the conversation about need. What exactly do they need then, Fresh Prince? I suspect that when you were having conversations with big boss, you didn't have the conversations around T, which is timelines.
Timelines just means is there any urgency? Does it sound like they're ready to take action anytime? So does it look like there's something that they're planning towards? So let's let's rewind it. So you have the conversation with Chief, I said Chief, Big Boss, you have the conversation with Big Boss. So it's a big boss. Based on all the things you've spoken about so far, looks like this project can come in anything between 45,000,000 on the high end and about 40
million on the low end. Does that match with the scope that you guys have discussed so far with the company? And then Big Boss says now 40 million, Fresh Prince are 40 million. Will you guys negotiate? Everything is negotiable now. But you know, Sha, let's let's go forward now. Let me we need to come and do site inspection. Let me see the factory. Let's let me go up there with my balls to measure everything. That's all determine the final price.
OK. But at 40 million, we can negotiate a big boss now. You're my guy. Now we can negotiate. Don't worry, I got you. I got you. OK, No problem. That is budget then authority. So big boss, you know for that Elisa Day project that we did that time, now when we submitted our final invoice, the thing that had to go to the board. So for you people, is it the same thing that the board will approve? I'll be is you that will just cut the check.
So no, now I'll be empty. Now I have the final authority. I'm the one that will cut the check. Good. In your mind now you now know that. OK, I'm dealing with the right guy then you have already agreed need N all right, because you had the first conversation that used to just give him that rough 45 to 40. You've agreed that boys have to be on site and measure the roof and you know the wingspan and the every you know all those your technical stuff.
So need that one will happen later. So timeline 9 remain now. So you now ask him now OK by the way big boss so like why is it now that you people are changing the roofing sheets? You just ask why are you changing the roofing sheet now? Then you keep quiet. If Big Boss says, you know, we don't enter rainy season and or more than last rainy season, the current leaks will we get as in they didn't even spoil one of our machine.
When somebody says something like like that, that the reason why we are changing is because we had leaks in the last rainy season and the leaks nearly destroyed one of our machines. Can you see that? That sounds like somebody that has urgency. There is something that might happen sometime soon that causes them to want to act. That is rainy season on the show. Small, small. Now the reason why we should be asking about timelines or urgencies, that is the thing that will give us confidence and give us fuel when it comes to the follow up.
You will now know whether you can follow somebody aggressively. You could have closed my camp calling the person every two, two days, every 3-3 days or you will relax. I'll be calling them every two, two months is based on urgency. It's the urgency that will tell you. So somebody who is ready to take action next week, you had better be calling that person every two, two days. Stay on this thing because the person is getting ready to move next week.
The person who is going to take action in another 10 months, OK, you can follow that person and you know, you can relax. You call them every month or every 3-3 weeks. You see? So this is how, because a lot of you get very confused, like, oh, am I being too aggressive? Honestly speaking, I don't know if you're being too aggressive. Like, what's the timeline? What's what's the urgency? I can't say you're too aggressive and I can't say you're not too aggressive.
It, it depends. Like remember back when we were in university, you know, you like a girl, you're hanging out with her, you know, you just follow her normal, normal, normal. But then you're reading your final exams and people are going to leave soon. You know, if you don't lock this thing down, people will graduate and then she will now send you Ivy that she's marrying somebody else. So you know, that's why you now sit down and have that conversation.
You know that babe that I want you to be my girlfriend. You know that is your matter. I want to die on you put for that commitment because you know that urgency timeline graduation is coming and you don't want her. You don't want holiday to go and then next thing she will now be inviting you that she's getting married to Alhaji. So so and so you want to be the guy that she will marry. So that's why you now push for the commitment because something is happening.
Timeline D this urgency in front is the same thing with business as in relationships. We need to figure out the timeline. So Fresh Prince, honestly, I'm not sure if when you're having conversations with sorry, 1 moment. OK, I'm back. Sorry about that. You know, I mentioned that I'm at in the parking lot because the kids have cascism and lo and behold, from nowhere, one of my cousins that I've not seen in like almost like 5 years.
No, I think more like 7 years. I haven't seen this my cousin like 7 years. You don't believe as I was making this broadcast recording, my cousin was just strolling by anyway. We it was anyway, don't mind me. Let me not use my family issues now derail the podcast. Where was I? Where was I? I've lost track. So I think I was saying, Fresh Prince in the conversation that you've been having with Big Boss. I'm not sure if you've been bringing up timelines at all.
I'm not sure if you've been bringing up urgency. Why do you need to replace the roof now? Is there any project that you are currently working on OK, to change this roof right now? Is it a directive that has come down from the board or you know like there are questions that you asked that you will get a sense OK, oh that this is the reason why they are moving now. This thing has broken. This thing has damaged or maybe the, you know, you never know.
Sometimes it's even a superficial or something. Maybe like they just want to do, you know, every once in a while now, some people just say, oh, we don't like how everything is looking. Let's just let's just paint everywhere, change the roof, blah, blah, blah. You know, maybe it's just cosmetic, you know, but you need to know because like now if it's one of those cosmetic things, for instance, somebody just says we haven't painted this factory in 10 years and you know, the roof is now looking rusty.
If it's a commerce, if it's a cosmetic something, it's good to know because you now know how serious they are or not. If it's just cosmetic, that's the kind of thing when I say cosmetic, I just mean like, you know, outside, like me everywhere just fine. If it's a cosmetic something, then you know that it's the kind of thing that they can change their mind because the business owner can come and say, what? Look at this building, see, we haven't painted this thing.
Look at the roof everywhere rusty, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Go ahead, give me a quote, give me a quote. Now we need to make this place look fine. Make this place look fine. Then by the time you give the business owner the estimate, you say what, 100 and something million? Just say you know what? If it's 100 million, just just leave it. Just believe in it is OK. It's OK. The roof is still OK. Abby, it's not leaking.
No, it's not leaking. Nothing damaged, nothing damaged. It's just looking rusty and just leave it. If I have 100 million for something else, just leave it. Just leave it. So ask timelines, urgency. We need to know why are they moving now? So it is when you ask all these questions of big balls that you will know whether you're dealing with a serious person or you're dealing with someone who's going to waste your time. If you ask all these kinds of questions early in the beginning, you will know before you start that, whoa, this person I'm talking to is the kind of person I want to show me Shake it.
They'll be pricing me groundnuts. They'll be doing me back and forth. They'll be doing me corner, corner. You will know right from the beginning. Now, in that case, if you don't have anything better to do, OK, no problem, you can engage. But the things at least you know fully well and you decided to engage, not that somebody is using your head. And if you have other things to do, other prospects that seems to be much more promising, well,
then go ahead and deal with those people. Because from asking questions back and forth, you have seen that this is nice. You're somebody. But Please remember, for the quote, start money conversations with your mouth, face to face where possible, over the phone if you can be face to face or over Zoom meeting. But sure, your mouth must be involved. Your physical lips, your mouth must be involved when it comes to money conversations, start it with the mouth.
Even if you want to be negotiating over e-mail or WhatsApp, you know, no problem. But start with your mouth. Don't use the quote. If you use the quote or the invoice, you will get trapped in this silly game. And if you guys are not tired of the game, continue. But for me, I'm tired. That is the reason why I have all the big conversations upfront and then I'm sending the invoice at the end because this is how I will collect my money.
So this is a formal notice and then it's a summary of everything that we have discussed. But if you don't mind, OK, continue sending quotes out. The problem with this quotation game is let's say you're talking to two people every single week and with each person you have prepared five quotes in the last month. I mean, like, just think about it now. Two people per week, eight people per month, 8 * 12 is, is what is that 90 something?
I'll be 100 and something. And it's a good thing my children are, you know, don't like podcasts, so they won't know that I'm bad at math. Just think of the number of PDFs you're presenting. You're, you're creating every day, creating PDFs, just wasting your time, editing invoice, just wasting your time Anyway, So Fresh Prince, let me talk to you now directly, Fresh Prince, to move from 18 to 15, from 15 to 12, you're devaluing your offer and you're making big boss feel as if there is no objective basis for the quote.
If every single time I push back, you remove 3,000,000, it means that you are trying to, you are trying to build a house on top of my head in the 1st place. You understand what I'm saying for those of you who are not Nigerian, what what, what we mean when we say you want to build house on top of my head, it means OK, how will I put it now? Oh boy, OK. If somebody says you want to build house on top of my head, what the person means is like you are trying to take advantage of me, you're trying to make advantage of me and get on unrealistic excessive profit margins from me.
So that's what it means. So if you remove 3,000,000 every single time, that means you want to build a house on top of my head, It means that there is no rational basis for this cost that you have given me. So even if before he trusted you, now he will go and start asking otherpeople.com how much for this project. He will now start doubting. So let's stop playing all this discount thing. You are devaluing the offer. Then you've also shifted the balance of power.
Big boss now knows that he has the power. You have shifted your status. You're no longer a professional salesperson. You are now a beggar because you're you're chasing him. Say Bros, follow me. Come by, follow me by. Market full no, like you, you've lost it. You're not becoming like these people in the market who chase people up and down. Then you also put yourself in one kind desperate mindset. And look, that desperation thing sucks.
The problem with the desperation thing is that it kills your motivation. It kills your mojo. The thing kills your drive. You now won't even have liver to be calling other people. So that's why I say avoid all these things. Avoid. Figure out quickly, is this person serious or oh, they're all serious. OK, I can't figure out if they're all serious. Move other people. You will stay here. It will kill your motivation. It will kill your drive.
Everything is just shifting in big bosses favour. So how will I put it now? And Asia, don't be discounting. I'll make podcasts. I've already made podcast episodes about that before and I'll talk about it some more in the future. But let's say you want to know now legitimately, like how can you negotiate in this kind of thing? It's very, very simple. Very, very simple. Remember, I'm a sales coach and a business development consultant, so I am not a negotiation specialist.
That is why I advise that apart from listening to my podcast, go and look for other podcasts on negotiations as well. Unfortunately, there is no Nigerian podcast on negotiation that I have found so I can't refer you someplace else. All of them are Oyo podcast but it's OK, that's not a problem even though it's an Oyo podcast. Listen to it and just try and see how would this principle apply. OK, so Speaking of principles now for those of you who are listening who have studied negotiations, because you know,
my first degree was in in law. So they teach us some of these stuff or you go for seminars where you learn one or two things. Now in the area of negotiations, there's something that they called unprincipled concessions. Unprincipled concession just means, OK. Concession just means how will I put it in a concession? Concession to concede to means I agree. Concession does means why I agree. That's what concession means.
So in negotiations and they say do not make unprincipled concessions. That means do not be agreeing to anything without any principle. Do you guys hear me? Do not be agreeing to something without any principles. Do not be agreeing to anything in negotiation that does not have an underlying basis. And most especially how do I put it now? OK, let me put it this way, don't agree for anything without asking for anything in return.
Let me put it that way. So that's on principle concession. If somebody says too expensive, then you go from 18 to 15, you didn't ask for anything. That is an unprincipled concession. You gave GAP. Why did you give GAP? What is the basis? You don't know. You didn't explain it. Did you ask for anything in return? Nothing. When you make unprincipled concessions, you devalue the offer. You shift the balance of power. You start looking desperate.
You assume lower status. Everything will shift in the other person's favor. So if you must agree for something, ask for something else. If somebody says you're too expensive, blah, blah, blah, you will haggle back and forth. The person say what about 50 million? You can say, Oh yeah, sure, 50 million, we can do that. But in return for this 15,000,000, you will have to do this for me. You now say something that works in your favor.
That is how you kind of maintain the balance of power. You don't sound too desperate. And then you definitely don't devalue your offer. And then apart from that, you will also teach the person. The person will figure out that every single time I ask Fresh Prince for 3,000,000 off, he gives it to me. He now asks me for something else. Guess what? The person will stop asking. The game will end after a while. People figure it out.
Every single time I ask him for something, he asks me for something. So therefore they will stop. No unprincipled concessions. So when you're negotiating and then the money thing comes up, non principal concessions, what are the kind of things that you can ask for? There are different things. Now when it comes to money, there is the amount per item. So in this case the amount per roofing sheet. Remember Fresh Prince sells roofing sheets.
So this is the amount per roofing sheet. Then there's also frequency. Frequency just means how often do people come back? And then there's also volume. Volume just means how many are you buying Now? These are the things that you will play with if you're in this, excuse me. So obviously if you're a consultant, you know, you OK, can consultants do this? And then for people who sell mostly physical items, these are the things you you play with,
the amount, how much are they paying per one, per one roofing sheet, per one solar panel, per, you know, whatever. Then there's frequency. How often is this person going to come back? Are they going to buy this year only? I'll be, they want to buy in January, then they want to come back in December. Then there's volume. How many are they buying now? Because if you're giving discount on roofing sheets and the person is only buying time from you, you're wasting your like you're wasting your time.
You're giving somebody a sweet discount, but then you only buy 10 roofing sheets, man, that thing does not pay you. And then maybe they only buy from you once every five years. That thing has not paid you at all. But then if you give somebody a discount on one roofing sheet per one, but then they buy 6000 and they want to come back in December and make another order. Can you see that? OK, the picture is different. OK, I gave them discounts, I
guess was a heavy discount, but at least they bought 6000 units in January and they have promised us that they're coming back in October so long as we can hold the same price for them. OK, it's doable, it's workable. So those are the things you play around with. Somebody says you're too expensive. You people are quoting 2500 per square inch, but your competition is quoting 1008 per square inch. You can say 1008 per square inch.
OK, no problem. We can match 1008 per square inch. But to do that, instead of buying 1000 sheets from us, you have to buy 4000 sheets from us for you to give for us to give you that price. You see you don't go, you don't get lever now, you don't get leverage like you will have playing back and forth. You're actually negotiating something. It's not just a matter of somebody who jump. You now say how high then frequency, say look bronze, that price, that one age you're asking for per square meter.
Honestly, bro, that you know makes sense, you know, makes the only way that it will make sense is if you're buying 4000 sheets from us now. And that other project, that one in the Yanobaja, if you can give us the contract for that one. Let's just do everything once so that you do this one now, the one for Yanobaja, you come back in July, then we can make it work. They're trying to make sure that they come back. And then of course, volume.
In fact, for me, volume is like the default. Somebody says drop the price, You say, oh fantastic, I can drop the price, but you now have to buy a whole lot more. So there are levels that you can pull when it comes to negotiation, but no on principal concessions. When you make on principal concessions, you're making things pretty bad for yourself. So somebody asks for a discount, no problem, I can give you the discount, but you give me this in return.
So that's how it works. But remember, my area of specialty sales, not negotiations. So why look for a negotiations podcast and then learn accordingly? Now this guy big balls. The reason why he's problematic is because he has said something that gives me PTSDPTSD does a post traumatic stress disorder. The reason why he gives me PTSD is because when I was young in the event space somebody used that thing on my head. So anytime I hear this, it sends me to convulsions when somebody says oh then let's do this thing.
Now it is good for exposure or I will promote you or I will introduce you to somebody else or you know, nothing gives me serious PTSD. So that's what Big Boss is saying now. Big Boss is saying this 12 million is too expensive. But you know what, drop this price then I will now promote you. I'm connected, I'm in the industry. I'm an industry person. Like people know me now. Like everywhere in Lagos, they know me. If you Call My Name, people know me now.
Like I'm connected now that guy, I'll hook you up. I'll hook you up. This of this 12 minute give me 9. Then I'll be promoting people all over my social media. Introduce you guys, not me. Now it's me. So when I hear people talk like that, I have PTSD. My initial reaction when I hear people talk like that, I tell them roll, run away, run away, run away. Nothing there. Nothing is there nothing is there anybody who is saying promotion like people know me, I
will connect you, I'm connected now like no, be me that just when you enter Lagos, just call my like Ron, that guy is looking for a Mugu Ron, leave that guy except if you are also a sharp guy and you know how to play these games ahead and engage him. But if you're an ordinary person like me and you don't know how to do all this stuff, just run. The person says promotion, this is this whatever, just tell the person OK, yes, sounds like a good idea.
Sounds like a good idea just for the person and talk and then just leave and then never call the person again. That's it. I can assure you the person is not going to call you back. So you haven't lost anything. So that's my initial reaction. Anybody says promotion partnership run, but assuming you don't want to run, you want to hear the person out, OK, you need to start having some very specific conversations. If the person says I have no problem now I go promote you now like I'll promote you.
Introduce to people, you know, something, something, blah, blah, blah. Ask specific questions. Oh, you want us to do this? You want us to go to 9 million in exchange for promotion partnership, right? Person will say yes. Now why don't you trust me? I'm your guy and I was OK, Sure, no problem. When you say promotion, what do you mean exactly? These people are looking for Mugu. They know that they will say promotion and you think the best.
Ask them. Sometimes what the person means when they say promotion is that let's say the person has a newspaper. They said they'll put one free advert for you. Free advert for you in one newspaper. One advert only is not going to help your business. So ask them. Oh, promotion, what do you mean? Then you were here. Then you can all start having a serious conversation. If the person owns a newspaper that is widely read in Lagos and they said they'll give you 1
advert, you can say look like Bros. That is no good work. Now are you saying 1 advert in a month? I'll be 1 advert per week and the person says no, once a month you can say no, no, no, no, no. You can now start haggling and negotiating over something that you know what you give us one advertisement but that one advertisement will be 1 advertisement for free every single week for at least six months at least. Now you're talking because you have asked the person that oh you say promotion.
When you say promotion, what does that mean? Because some people when they say we'll promote you, what they mean is when they're having meeting at Ikeja Country Club or at Yoruba Tennis Club or something, Excuse me, what they mean by promotion is that they will invite you there so you can sit down in the meeting and then maybe you can get connected to one or two people. If that is OK by you, OK, no problem, take it. If it's not OK by you, then you tell them that ah chief, like look, that one doesn't work from you.
Then you can now start negotiating back and forth. OK, you know what? Instead of me coming to the meeting and trying my luck, how about you, I don't know, send me phone numbers of 20 people who attend the association, let me call them up directly or something. And I don't know, sharp. But once you start asking, what do you mean when you say promotion? What do you mean when you say introduction? What do you mean when you say partnership?
You are now beginning to have some very, very concrete conversations. You can decide whether this is good or not. So what do you mean when you say promotion? Oh, OK. Promotion. OK, cool. Over what kind of medium exactly? Oh, you want to introduce me to people? Oh, OK, alright, No problem. Which events are we looking at? What this is that you have in mind? Oh, really? OK, So who else is supposed to be? The more specifically I get, the better.
If somebody says I'll connect you, I'll connect you. You know, so like when I was in events, I just realized that all those people who use the same connection. Connection for me when I started pushing back like OK, all right, cool. So are you saying that by the time we're done with this wedding because, you know you have five guys on the train and then you have 16 girls on the bridal train So are you saying that after this you give me the phone number of all 16 babes?
Let me try my luck. Let me see if I can get business from there is then you start seeing people's true colors. Oh say ha ha ha, all my bridesmaids, I should give you their phone number because of her. Because of what then I don't mind. I'm thinking you just said you're going to hook me up, you're going to connect me if at the very least you won't connect me with all the bridesmaids here so I can pursue them and cover their own wedding later.
Like what exactly do you mean by connection? So what's the nature of the promotion? Over what medium? How are we doing this thing? Oh, you want to connect me? Ask the person to who? Because sometimes some people say they will do you connection or they'll do your promotion and yes, they'll promote you and they'll connect you. But the people that they'll connect you to are useless for your own purposes. You can't, you can't collect anything from them.
So you ask them, you need to know the target base. Who exactly? What kind of people exactly are you planning to introduce me to? For people who throw their social media following in your face? Because there's some people that say, oh, I'm connected on social media, have 10 million followers, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like you ask questions. Oh, OK, fantastic. Oh, that would be good. You tweet about us.
Oh, how many times I'm going to tweet, blah, blah. Oh, by the way, what is your estimated reach? How many people actually look at the posts? You know, blah, blah, blah, you know, like begin ask some questions. Oh, I would love to explore this promotion partnership that you have in mind. OK, that's not a problem. Big boss. Can I come over to your office next week so that we can, we can, we can narrow things down. I want us to come up with goals for this promotion campaign that we're going to come up with, You know, what are the metrics that we're going to use to track whether we're on course or not?
By the time you start digging down like that, you will find that a lot of people will disappear. And the reason why they will disappear is because they are serious. They are looking for, for moguls. Those people are idiots. The person who engages with you and who says, yeah, sure, come for the meeting and you people are talking and or no, OK, maybe there's hope, maybe there's hope. Maybe truly, truly the person is just broke at the moment and he's trying to see how he can get a good deal.
And the person means well. So when somebody says promotion in promotion, partnership exposure in exchange for lower price, my honest opinion, run away. But if you're brave and you want to engage, just try and make this the more specific, the more specific you can get, the better so that you know what to hold people to. Now, shy. OK, 55 minutes. OK, let me bring it to a close now. So Fresh Prince, right? Remember, he sells roofing sheets, but he's not the owner of the business.
He sells on behalf of somebody. Now, Fresh Prince Auger was exasperated, understandably so, because it is frustrating. It is annoying to be sending somebody paper back and forth. So Fresh Prince Olga told him, look, just call up this guy, call up big boss and just ask him how much is he willing to pay. I'm tired of all this back and forth. So Fresh Prince Yoga, his intuition is correct that you have to call up and start asking some strong questions.
But unfortunately, what your Olga advised you to do is the is the wrong question, is the wrong question. When he has that kind of question, how much are you willing to pay? You'll make you things even worse. You're becoming even more of a beggar. You're becoming even more desperate. Big Boss now knows that he has the upper hand for sure. And he can use you people to do rubbish. He will ask for 9 million, I can assure you.
I bet you he's going to ask for 9. The last one you sent was 12. I bet you if you ask him, he'll ask for 9. He might even ask for seven. So don't be surprised you asked for several million. The question to ask when you're at this level, you're exasperated, you don't know am I going forward? Am I going backwards? The questions to ask is you actually go back to the beginning of the sales process. You go back to the beginning of the sales process.
You ask questions to be sure that you're talking to a qualified somebody, to a serious somebody. The question to ask is, you know, Big Boss, we've been talking for about a month now. We've gone from 18 to 15, from 15. I don't give you 12, this 12 self. You said it seemed too high. Boss, are you, are you still interested? Do you want to move forward or not? That's the question to ask when you start asking questions around whether they're interested or not.
You might be surprised that Big Boss is not ready to take action now. He actually wants to take action in October. He just wanted to tie down a good price. Now go back to the beginning of the sales process. We've been talking for a while, blah, blah, blah. Like are you truly interested? Is this really a project that you guys want to start this year? Now, bro, we've been going back and forth. Back and forth is as if it's something you don't really need right now.
Those are the kind of questions you should be asking. Go back to the beginning. Are they interested? Do they have a want? Do they have a deed? Is there any sense of urgency? You can ask questions around budget, bro. We've been dancing around back and forth and stuff like that. It's as if you guys didn't do any research before we started this thing. Ask, You'd be surprised. I've asked somebody that kind of question and the person admitted, well, yes, you're the first vendor that we've spoken to.
In my mind, I'm thinking, what the bloody hell? I'm the first person that you're talking to. You didn't even go outside into the market and see what's up. So I know how to educate them that look, you know what, based on how things operate in Abuja, you know, you know, high class, middle class, low class, like this, like this, like this, like this, like this, you know, go and do some research. You know, when you're ready,
let's talk again. I'll call you next week Thursday just to see how far. So what do you think? That's OK, no problem. When I called the person next week Thursday, OK, now we had a more realistic conversation because the person had gone and spoken to other people. So yes, by the time you're doing all this back and forth, you need to ask the person some hard questions. The question you must not ask is how much are you willing to pay?
Don't ask that question at all. Don't answer that question at all. Go back to the beginning. I thought you were interested. Looks like this is not something you guys, you know, want to do right now. OK, Chairman, say you should come and ask me for quotes. Yeah, I understand. But honestly speaking, is this the kind of thing that Chairman even wants to invest in now? Oh, big Boss, you know, we've been talking since, but it looks like you guys have other priorities at the moment.
Ask, you'll be surprised by the answer. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, actually we had this problem with this factory in in Sangota, and we're trying to deal with that. And because of that, you know, we're pressed for cash and blah, blah, blah. OK, At least now you're beginning to know the true situation. True situation on ground. It's better than just staying in the dark, being frustrated and not knowing what exactly is going on.
I gave this guy 80 million. He said it's too much. I gave him 15. He said it's too much. I gave him 12. He said it's too much. He's now telling me that MO do a promotional partnership. Yeah, your guy is correct. Go and ask some questions. But the question I told you to ask is the very wrong question. Don't go and ask somebody. How much are you willing to pay? Go back to the beginning of the sales process? Are they interested?
Do they have a want? Do they have a deed? Can then afford this thing? Is there any sense of urgency? What are the priorities that they have at the moment? And Fresh Prince, honestly speaking, I am. Look, I feel your pain. I feel sorry for you. I really feel sorry for you. I understand how we can be. He's not one client that one lead that looks as if it was close to closing. You haven't closed anything in three months.
So I understand you're desperate right now and your guys breathing down your neck. Honestly speaking, by the time you finish this episode with this guy big boss by the time whether if the thing close, I hope it closes if it closes good. If it doesn't close, well, no Allah. But from now on your greatest security. I have Fresh Prince and anybody in this situation listen up. Your greatest your greatest security is prospecting.
Prospecting means the activity of thinking, strategizing, who needs, who has a want or who has a need for my product or my service. Then I go out and start talking to these people. So yeah, your greatest, your greatest security is prospecting, talking to many people. If you are having seven conversations right now, you will not feel as safe. Big Boss has you by the testicles. The only reason why Big Boss can be squeezing your brokers like this is because you don't have anybody else to talk to.
If the other people to talk to, your body language will show. You'll be paying attention to other people who are more serious. It's Big Boss that I'll be chasing you. This is why prospecting is important. Prospecting gives you confidence. It gives you Peace of Mind. If at any single point in time I'm talking to four, 5-6 people, one person can be for me, younger for me. It's not possible because there are other people.
I will go and pay attention to other people first. In fact, I might even close other things. And then later I realized that, oh, that is true. We didn't even talk to this guy. You know what, they probably wasn't even going to close anyway. So please, Fresh Prince, after you finish prospecting, double your efforts. You should always have, you should always have a few people in the pipeline since you're a roofing sheets.
OK, Not everybody buys roofing sheets. OK, I don't know what is ideal for your industry, but I think you should always have for every single month. If you have like 4 or five people that you are shadowing every single month, it might not be a bad idea. Nobody will be able to. Nobody will be doing you anyhow anyhow, because there's hope. OK, this one in close. OK, no problem. I'm still talking to four other people. Then also this is 1 trick that sales people don't realize.
The best time to prospector or the best time to make sales is when you have collected money. I repeat the best time to go out and start making sales when you've collected money because your motivation is high. So especially since you're in roofing sales and your Commission is big, you know you sell something by the time they pay you Commission, your Commission will probably be like, you know, 3 million or 4,000,005 million, 10 million depending on how much you sold.
So the best time to call, you know when you close that deal and your guy sends your Commission 3,000,000, once that 3,000,000 hits your account, what you do is you go out and you declare with your boys, you have a couple of drinks or you pay your tithes depending on whether you're for God or for the devil. Shall you pay your dues? Then the very next day without motivation, pick up the phone and be calling people. The base in your voice will be rich.
The confidence that you have would be palpable, like people feel you. The reason why is because money hit your account yesterday. So that's the trick. One problem that we make those are also our professional sales people is when money hits our accounts, we relax. The money hits your account, you say, ah, we thank God. You settle one or two things. Then you Netflix and chill for a bit. Maybe you go on a holiday. No, no, no, no, no.
When money hits your accounts, that's the time to Rev up. Rev up when you have a few million in your bank accounts, when your Commission has hit, that is the time to pick up the phone. That's the time to go to somebody's office. You drive it to somebody's office. You come out of the card. Security guards, they will salute you because you're coming as if you know you're not coming, as if you're hungry because you know there's something in the bank account.
So when you're being fed, when money has hit your account, that's the time to actually double down. Don't rest. So Fresh Prince, eventually 111 deal will close, but when it does, when you receive your Commission, that's the time to double down because you sound like you like life. So you know, go and drink with your boys, but spend wisely, spend wisely because nowadays alcohol is expensive. That's how one guy told me that I would normally 400K.
That's the kind of thing he would spend on NEC. And in my mind I'm thinking what the hell, 400K on top alcohol for real. And so don't go and spend 400K on the boys. So Basha, you drink, wake up, wash your face, your face, and then start calling with confidence that there's something in your bank account. And always make sure that you have 3-4 people on call every single month and hopefully all should be well. So that's it.
That's the end of the three-part series. Thank you very much for listening. Remember, if this is your first time listening to the episode, scroll back. There are two others in this series. If you're discovering the show for the first time, please subscribe and share the show with others who might get value from it as well. And remember, if you'd love to connect with me, you can call me, send me a text message or WhatsApp message on 08064662140.