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Hello and welcome to the show. Today I'd like to look at how to run a consultative sales process. This is not a listener question, but I think it's something that we need to address because there are a bunch of us who are running around trying to do business and we're trying to sell our products or services as if we're in the simple sales scenario. And we haven't quite realized the implication of being in the complex sales scenario, sorry.
In complex sales scenarios because like I was shown on the podcast, you're trying to sell Lugosi is not the same thing as trying to sell tax consultancy services. So if you sell Lugosi in the open market, then the approach you're going to take is different because you're in the simple sales scenario. On the other hand, for those of you who sell tax, accounting, legal, you know, those types of services, the way that you should go about selling it should be different because you guys are in a complex sales scenario.
But this is your first time of listening to the podcast. Then when you're done listening to the show, go to YouTube because my podcasts are now available on YouTube. Use a search function, search my name and then use my name. And then use simple sales scenario or complex sales or something. You know, those sorts of things. And episodes that I've done in the past around these subjects will come up. And then you get brought up to speed about what a simple sales scenario is, what a complex sales scenario is and the reasons why, which is so different on what the implications are.
So I'm going to use a live case study. Well, not really live anyway because now it's over and done with. Or as at the time of me making this recording, you know, I don't know how the thing will end, but let's head straight into it. So basically this is a scenario a friend of mine recently wanted to engage the service services of attacks or accountant, you know, like a tax specialist, accountant specialist. You know, to be honest, he didn't even know what he should be searching for.
By the way, that's one thing that those of us who I am professional services should understand. When our potential customers reach out to us in the beginning, they don't quite know what they should be looking for. Now tax people, accounting people, they offer all kinds of services, compliance services, reporting services, payroll, bookkeeping, advisory. And The thing is, my friend didn't know what's up. He didn't know what it is that he needed.
So just bear in mind that if you sell professional services, legal accounting, tax, business consultancy, growth, growth consultancy, business management, our potential customers just know that they need something shy. They don't quite know exactly what it is, but a lot of us assume that our customers like they're the ones who have the problem, our potential customers. So they should know exactly what it is that they want.
But The thing is, you are the professional. The potential customer reaches out to you as a tax or accounting specialist, as a growth management consultant, as a whatever. The onus is on you to guard the to guide the conversation because you're the one who knows what's up. The potential customer, he doesn't know or she doesn't know. They just have this nagging feeling that something is not quite right. I should be doing this, I should be doing that, or my friend is doing this, my friend is doing that, or Mumsy said this or Popsy said that, or Wifey thinks we should do this.
So they don't quite know exactly what they want. So for those of you who are not yet convinced, because I've been saying on the podcast that we are the ones who should be taking a lead of the conversation, I hope you guys can see the reasons why I recommend that we take the lead and we take the initiative. The initiative cannot be on the potential customer because in most cases, a potential customer doesn't know what's up when it comes to simple sales scenarios like a Gucci.
I mean, the guy knows exactly what he needs. His wife, I said go and get me two cups of a Gucci and he will go to the market and he'll get 2 cups of a Gucci. He knows exactly what a Gucci looks like. But if he's been having a conversation with his wife and they're talking about how the business can be better, maybe they've lost some money. No, I think it is supposed to be 1.2, but they only saw 960K in the account. Or by the way, with what Tinbu is saying, are they going to be changes to how they filed that and this and this and that?
I mean, him and wifey or business partners or brother or parents. I mean, they've had all kinds of conversation and the guy or the girl just knows that something is up. They don't exactly know what is up. They don't exactly know what they need. So please, for those of us who are in complex hill scenarios, for those of us who are selling professional services, if I run into any of you who argue with me on this in the flesh, I will knock you on the head because you guys are refusing to take the hint.
You should be the one who should be leading the conversation because you are the pro. You are the one who knows what's up man. Let's see, OK? Anyway, just in case you haven't figured out the reason why I'm going over this whole story, sorry, excuse me. The reason why I'm going over this story and using it as a case study is because I think that there are probably lessons that we can learn here about how to organize our sales process.
And you don't have to be a tax specialist, accounting specialist. It just happens to be the scenario for today. But for those of you who sell other kind of stuff, fashion, legal, lifestyle, coaching, what of cooking chef, whatever, you can learn from this approach. So the initial outreach happened on LinkedIn because my this friend of mine was just chilling on LinkedIn going through the timeline. And you know how you know people are on your timeline and you see the profile picture and then you see the is it LinkedIn bio or header or something?
So that's how he saw somebody, the ladies header come up and the thing said tax something, something, tax, whatever, whatever at so, so, so, so and so firm. And so he clicked on it because after all, you know, what do you call these things? Mutual connections? Yes. So the mutual connection, OK, forgive me, I'm not sure if mutual connection is the right word, but this is a word that you call people who you are connected with on LinkedIn.
So since they're already connected and that had some small chats in the past, you know, my guy figured let me just approach him, see what's up. So my friend asked the question, he said he wanted an Abuja based tax consultant and then the tax professional pushed back on the location and reasonably so. And then she was able to educate him that nowadays in 2024, filings are largely done online. So it doesn't really matter about whether your accountant or your tax person is based in Abuja or Lagos or Obama show or in Ireland or whatever that all that is needed is, you know, the person has the knowledge of the processes and things like that.
The person knows how to file, where to file, excuse me and how to direct you accordingly. Sorry about clearing my throat. I'm still recovering from this thing. So I'm still on Puritan and lauritidine, although today I'm not dizzy. Where was I? OK, Yes, certainly that's what the person said. Now, since I'm not a tax consultant or I'm not an accounting person, I have no idea if this is the case. So don't say that. You heard on this podcast that it doesn't matter where your accountant is based.
You know, I don't know. I'm not a pro. So if you need tax and accounting issues, you know, talk to the specialist, they'll put you through. But this is what this person told my friend. So, yeah, so that part was good. When you're involved in a complex sales scenario, you should be the one taking the initiative and educating people, like I've been saying so far, because people don't know also and they don't know what's what.
So somebody's coming here with the wrong impression because the last time the person filed any tax issues was maybe like a decade ago. And I guess back in the day, your accountant had to be in Abuja because somebody would have to go into the office physically and you know, things like that had to be on location. But now it's 2024, so I guess things have changed. Then the tax consultant requested a WhatsApp number to talk some more.
And I say that is very, very, very good. And that's something that a whole bunch of us should adopt because the thing with phone conversations that, you know, it's more personable, You're able to build rapport, you're able to pick up on all kind of visual cues, you know, whether this conversation is running smoothly or not. It also gives you the opportunity to get feedback very, very quickly and you can double down on some things.
So the person might say something, I guess. Oh, sorry, I didn't hear you correctly. Did you mean did you say this is this or did you mean XYZ? And you can now drill in and start diving in real deep and ask the relevant questions that you need to ask. If this is handled over the phone, if it's over chat, it's very, excuse me. So if this is handled over chat, it can end up being a very cumbersome, cumbersome affair. So it's good that you requested WhatsApp phone number to talk some more.
So for those of us who are in complex sales services, those of us who are selling professional services, yeah, try quickly to get off e-mail and try quickly to get out of LinkedIn DM, try quickly to get on the phone or to get on WhatsApp or get on what's SMS basic basis because WhatsApp SMS, phone call, it's just differential like when you hope on that level, it's more it's more personal than trying to keep things in Instagram DM
and LinkedIn DM. Also there's the practical matter of people don't check their Instagram or their WhatsApp every single day. So once you switch the SMS, you guys are texting back and forth or WhatsApp messaging back and forth or phone calls back and forth. People respond, you know, shop shop because you can send a LinkedIn DM today and, and maybe the person doesn't see it until the end of the week. When you call the person today,
you send a message. It's possible the person might return the phone call tomorrow, especially if you've done a good job building rapport and you guys are flowing like 2 decent human beings. So the first part of the conversation that I've given you guys so far is what happened over LinkedIn DM. So now we're moving to stage 2 where WhatsApp inbox I thought was going to be a phone call, but tax resultant didn't call. So continued chatting.
I'll make I'll comment more on that in the future. So the tax consultants now start off the conversation by saying what do you need? In my own opinion, that is not good. Remember I told you guys that when it comes to professional services like this and complex hill scenarios, the guy or the girl does not know what they need. They just know that Shah something is wrong. So the conversation, the conversation in my own opinion would have been better off now that you're in WhatsApp levels the tax, what should have just started off by confirming things that they said in LinkedIn because LinkedIn they had been chatting for five days.
Now you're in WhatsApp and I'll talk about that later about, you know, the length of how time can affect sales. So LinkedIn, we're chatting five days now, we've entered WhatsApp and they're still chatting instead of the tax consultant trying to get on the phone. So she's outside of confirming that, oh, OK, nice to meet you, Mr. Bio blah, blah, blah. So based on what we chatted about on LinkedIn, my assumption is that you're into this, you do this and the possible problems that you're looking at is so,
so, so and so. Is that correct? So we'll now be Mr. Bio's and to now say, Oh yes, this is exactly correct, but I forgot to mention blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then the conversation can continue further. So the conversation should have started off by that, confirm the previous history and then see how you can ask some more questions. Another reason why I say that I think she should have confirmed the previous history is, you know, to be frank, the average customer, whether UK, Nigeria,
America, maybe when we discover aliens on Mars that we start doing business with them. But you know, for humans, the average customer does not like repeating themselves. If I have spent five days chatting with you on LinkedIn, direct message is somehow that we switch to Instagram or we switch to WhatsApp and you want me to repeat the whole story? The average person doesn't like that. By the way, I hope you guys are beginning to see instances where deals can start to die or start to lose friction.
Because if you are on this level with a customer, you guys did five days chatting on LinkedIn, you move to WhatsApp, you're still pinging back and forth. But some other tax consultant, because let's face it, whoever it is you're talking to is talking to two or three other people down the standard. If you're the only person, it's it's unusual or you're lucky. Average person is talking to two or three other people, maybe even more.
So you are trying to ping back and forth, but maybe the other tax consultant has gotten the person on the phone. I mean, where do you guys think the traction is going to go? Attraction is going to go to the other person who is having the phone call and they're already talking swiftly because with the other person that they're talking to on the phone, they might be at the level of exploring solutions, exploring strategies.
They might have said gotten to the level of explore option A, option B, option C. You are still of the level of saying, what is it that do you need? I mean, of course, the conversation that has more traction on the phone will continue. It is maybe when the conversation on the phone will now hook or something will happen and the person has doubting professional credibility that the guy will now remember that. Oh, I was chatting with this other lady from LinkedIn on WhatsApp who now starts scrolling up and down, where's that message to see how they can resume the conversation.
So yeah, that's how the conversation should have started off on WhatsApp. Confirm the things already mentioned because I know that my friend mentioned the VAT, that's a value added tax filings. And he also mentioned annual returns. That's, you know, the final tax that you file at the end of the not at the end of the calendar year, at the end of the business year, because that's one thing that we owe Inland Revenue Service every year was supposed to send in our paperwork.
This is how much we made. This is how much we lost because of that. This is how much we think we're supposed to pay. And here's a check for amount. They will look at it. They won't even say thank you. And then they will now assess it and get back to us to let us know whether we paid the right amount or whether we paid too much or whether we didn't pay enough. By the way, they're always trying to figure out whether we paid the right amount to see how much we still owe them then Oh,
my friend also mentioned anything else in home professional opinion because like I told you at the beginning of the episode, my guy just knows that something is wrong. He doesn't know what is wrong. So of course he's like, you know, Madam accountants, you know this and this and this and this. But you man, what do you think? Is there anything else I need to be paying attention to? So there in WhatsApp, my friend went ahead and repeated the whole story that he had already repeated over the course of five days on another platform.
Now when I finished, tax consultant just said I will revert. Not really, I'm being serious. The tax consultant just typed. I will revert, full stop. Now for those of you who are lawyers and accountants and let's see what else? Lawyers, accountants, who again, equity analysts, what else? You know, all you professional people than them. It's normal for you guys to speak in that language. So you can be talking to another lawyer because, you know, our background is in law and your lawyer friend just says, hey,
how far would that go by my root case? Maybe you're busy or in the middle of something you just type back. I will revert your lawyer guy. I mean, you guys are lawyers. So your lawyer guy or your lawyer babe as a female colleague, she'll understand like oh OK I'll revert. Ohala, I should just drop the phone and then be off. Now that is professional jargon. So that is cool. When 1 tax accountant is talking to another, I will revert full stop.
Without putting any other context behind it. It's fine when you talk to a professional colleague, when you are talking to an ordinary person, a professional, sorry, not professional, a potential customer, you don't know his background or his whatever. I will revert full stop. Without any other context, it's, it's somehow is vague. How about using ordinary language? Even if you say something like I'll get back to you, or even if you had used typing slang that we use nowadays, like I'll be right back, so I'll get back to you, I'll be right back.
I mean that's better than just saying I will revert full stop. Why are you assuming that? OK, no, any Nigerians are educated so I guess everybody knows what revert revert means. But just no shot that all these expressions I will revert. It's cool when one lawyer is talking to another or when one accountant is talking to another or when one equity analyst is talking to another. But it's not cool if the equity analyst is texting the client back and says I will revert.
If you guys know yourself, you've been flooring, you guys already built a relationship. You know they know how you talk. You know how they talk as a different, but this one is a talking stage. You guys have not consummated the professional relationship yet. I'll revert. I think that's too sparse, so use ordinary English. I'll get back to you. I'll be right back. I beg Novak's I'm in the middle of something. You know anything, sure, but not I will revert.
Although my own opinion, this is what I recommend. Type out the proper sentence, say OK Sir, based on everything that I've heard, I will need to confirm XYZ. Is it OK if I get back to you tomorrow by 12 noon question mark? I think that's a lot better. So you guys, let's try that. When you say I will revert, the customer doesn't know what to expect anyway. But that was a message. I'll revert, full stop. And what did my guy reply?
He did the thing that any other person would do. He just typed OK, full stop. By the way, it's not a good sign when you're trying to negotiate something or you're trying to build, you're trying to close the deal. And you guys now get to that stage where your text messages, you guys, sorry, I said text message in your text messages. You guys are now on that whole, you know, one word response. OK, yes, no, maybe tomorrow, No,
you know all those kind of responses, not very helpful. So once you enter that kind of one word response, well, holiday, you should transfer, you can revive the conversation then tax result and gets in touch saying I will send you a contact, he will contact you shortly. Full stop. That was it, no context, the tax result didn't say I will send you another person's contact. OK, well he gave a name, the tax result and gave a name.
My colleagues also will contact you shortly. Full stop. It's good that the person gave a name, but next time give a date, let the potential customer know that you know when this person might reach out to him or her. Also give a reason for the switch because like I said, this is your first time meeting. You guys are talking stage. You know potential customer doesn't know the reason for the switch. The person reaches out to you adequately.
You chat on link in Instagram, sorry on LinkedIn for five days. You now switch to WhatsApp, you now chat for three days and then you just say I'll send you a colleague contact, you will contact you shortly. Or like, OK, like why the switch? You know, give a reason. So a different approach in my own opinion will be to say something like, OK, Mr. so and so based on our discussion so far, if I understand you correctly on these issues, XYZ,
you actually need this kind of tax consultant and ABC kind of consultant will be able to help you best. Not me because my own specialist is so, so, so and so so because of this XYZ issue. I'm going to be sending you to one of my colleagues. His name is Adakole. Adakole will be in touch with you latest October 1st so that you guys can continue discussing options 1-2 and three. I hope you're OK with that. Can I give your number to the guy?
That's a better approach. Now I'm just saying I'll be sending you a contact. You'll be in touch with you shortly. No other context. So I think that's how I should handle it. Now, if I'm going to go over the whole history and start critiquing things line by line, you know, this broadcast episode is not going to end because we're already at 20 minutes. So let me just tackle what the big problems are and I hope that you guys will be able to learn from that how we should run a consultative sales process and also how it should inform our desire to sell efficiently.
So the big problem number one, in my own opinion, LinkedIn chat, like I said, LinkedIn chat was five days pinging back and forth, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping. Then WhatsApp chat was three days pinging back and forth, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping. This is something I have been trying to stress to people that they don't quite business owners that they don't understand. Now so far you have been pinging with somebody 8 days.
Do you think if you had managed to move this thing to phone call, you could have had a quick 20-30 minute phone conversation and they could have made progress? I mean you guys think about it, which is better? 8 days of pinging back and forth or you managed to get somebody on the phone and you guys talk 20-30 minutes. Even if you talk 45 minutes, a 45 minute conversation is better than 8 days of pinging back and forth because time stalls deals.
I can assure you in this situation, my guy is talking to two or three other people. If you're using 8 days to ping and you haven't even got to the level of exploring possibilities, but somebody who is sharp quickly gets on the phone and they start exploring. Proposal one, Proposal 2, Proposal three. Who do you think? I've already asked the question. I'm repeating it again so you guys can let the gravity sink in. Who do you think is going to make more traction in this thing?
It's the fellow who is on the phone and who is quick, quick to get to the punch. So all these things are pinging back and forth. The problem is when you're pinging, you will not even realize how much time you're taking. So that's why I want to use this as a real life case study because to you it's small, small messages now. So it doesn't feel like that big a deal. But in real life, just open your WhatsApp or open your LinkedIn,
DM the last potential customer you've been checking with. It will surprise you. Just scroll up and then start checking the dates. OK, 12th of March, 13th of March. This is. It will surprise you that that thing that looks like a small chat was actually two weeks. It will surprise you. In this kind of business, a whole lot can happen in two weeks. Somebody's chatting with you over two weeks, but chatting with two other people, one of the three of you happens to be sharper and cost to the punch.
What do you think is going to happen anyway? Time stalls, deals. If you guys haven't figured it out, time stalls, deals. Try and move this thing along as quickly as possible. Even if you're going to be chatting because you're afraid of the phone or the guy doesn't want to get on the phone with you, try and see how instead of chatting it is. Try and see how you can move this thing along and chat four days instead. Try.
Phone calls are more expressive, there's more interaction. You guys can feel each other's personality. You're going to be able to dig in, ask questions on things, get feedback on stuff. So please get on the phone, especially on things like these that are complicated because for you, who is the tax accountant, you know, tax specialist accountant type person. For you, everything is simple. You went to school for four years and you studied this thing.
Then you went to go and do a masters for another two years and then you've been practicing for 10 for 10-15 years. So you are a specialist, you've been doing this thing for 20 years. So for you it's very simple. Well, for average jewels like my friend and for me, this thing is, what's the word? Is it mystified, misty, something, you know, The thing is opaque. And then there's some element of fear. We don't even like tax officials, you know, because let's face it, all of us,
Nigerian business people, everyone trying to hide from tax officials, to be honest. I mean, you know, now we're Nigerians now. So we're even trying to hide in the 1st place. So and then let me move me on that. So please don't be chatting with anybody for eight days. Try and get on the phone quickly even if the person talks too much and it's a one hour conversation. A one hour conversation that we have today is better than an 8
day pigging back and forth. You know is is better. Then another thing. The first question that my friend asked was how much. The reason why my friend asked how much is simple and the reason why evil me map. When I talk to some people I ask how much. The reason why we ask is very, very simple. Like I told you, when it comes to these complex and complicated things, your potential customer is not the specialist and the person knows nothing.
The only proxy that the person has to go on is price, and some of us seem to tie price to value. That is the only proxy. So what else do you expect? Of course the person will ask how much if the person was a pro or have some knowledge about these things and the person knows that there's a difference between tax accounts. Sorry, I wasn't called them. Cash accounting and accrual accounting. If the person knows there's a difference, then I'll probably be the first question the person will ask you now.
Oh blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This is my situation. What kind of accounting do you think is best? Tax accounting or accrual accounting? What should I be doing in my situation? If the person knows the difference, the person will ask, but the person doesn't know. So that's the reason why when people hit you up, Mr. Tax Accountant, Madam Accountant Specialist, they ask about prices because they don't know any better to be honest.
And we do it too. So when you're ready to build your house, you have your millions. Of course you will ask the engineer, how much is this going to cost me? Because you don't know any other question to ask. You don't know whether to ask what kind of terrain do I have? Is the gradients too low or is it too high? Is this swampy? I'll be easy rocky. What kind of foundation do we need to build? I mean, you don't know any of those things.
So of course, that's the first thing you ask. Or engineer or architect, how much will this thing cost me? So please, those of us in professional services, let us stop being offended when people ask about price. They're not trying to insult you to say that the only thing that makes tax accountant A different from tax account and B different from forensic account and C is price. That is not what they're trying to say. They don't know any better, but they know that everything has a price, so that's how they're going to start the conversation.
Well, my friend asked this question. How much? They chatted 5 days on LinkedIn, no answer. Then they chatted 3 days on WhatsApp, no answer. It's been 8 days, no answer on price. Do you think that the customer is getting anxious after one week? You have not answered the question. How much do you suspect? Don't we think it's possible that potential customer is now thinking, ha, this must be expensive or this one that they don't want to say the price?
We should find ways of getting to this price thing quickly. I know you don't shoot yourself in the leg and say it's going to be 3.5 M only to start the work and you see that, ah, this work is something of seven M. That is the reason why I say let's get on the phone quickly so you can ask all the questions that you need, get all the information that you need. And that's also the reason why I keep saying that we should start this question.
We'll start these things off by giving a range, get some feedback and then get permission to ask more questions. There's nothing that stops you from saying oh OK Olga, you asked on day one. We've been chatting now for one week. The how much? Based on everything that we've said so far, I will still need to ask you more questions. But based on all you've said so far, Bros is looking like it can be anything between 500K and 750K forced to achieve XY and Z.
Is this something that you're willing to invest right now? Is this the kind of project you're willing to undertake? You know, something like that, that kind of question and I hear what is that the person has to say. The person says, like, why now isn't not only plus and minus, come on, whatever. You now know that you're dealing with an only and someone who is not educated in this thing and who has unrealistic price expectations and other expectations.
I now know that this is someone that you need to run away from or someone that you need to educate some more. But a person is like, what? So far, it's unlike, it's OK, but what are the other questions I need to have? And then you go ahead and you drill down on the conversation. But The thing is you've given a range to cover yourself. You know, some buffer because if you say between 500K and 750K, if you end up at 830, it's still close.
If you say between 400K and 750 and you end up at 320 K, you know it's too close. In fact, the guy will be much more happier if you ended up at 320 K then if you end up at, you know, the the higher number. So that's the way to get around this price thing. I know you don't want to shoot yourself in the leg, so give yourself a range and let the person know that we still have to talk some more before I can give you something specific.
So for me, that's how I move the conversation along. Based on what we've discussed so far, it could be anything between this and this. How does that sound? Is that, is this something you're willing to spend? Is that a realistic figure? I mean, depending on the level of rapport, sometimes I say, oh, it could be between. Luckily for you, it's a small matter. So it's not going to be that expensive. It can be between this and this.
That's cheap, Abby. And then keep quiet and then you hear, you know, it's not a bad way of getting feedback. You say that's cheap, Abby, you know, the other guy laughs. And they will start the whole economy of that whole conversation of the tenable economy or you paid school fees, you know, blah, blah, blah. You know, so that's a more human way sometimes to gain feedback. So give a range, gain feedback and then get permission to ask some more questions.
Like OK, I still have to ask you questions on ABC and XYZ to give you an exact amount and come up with a specific proposal. So that's how you handle the money thing. So please do that money thing quickly. If somebody starts off the conversation by saying how much, don't go 8 days of chatting, you haven't answered the question and then you say I will now refer you to somebody else. I've been chatting with you 8 days. You didn't give me information.
You now say you will hand me to somebody else. Or by the way, I bet you when this other person gets on the phone with this person, my friend will have to repeat the story again. Can you guys see how we're now introducing what's the word friction into the sales process? Said the story one time, five days on LinkedIn, repeated the whole drama. Three days on WhatsApp. You pass along to somebody else. The person who comes on is also not going to take this approach.
I know for short person, I want to take the approach of saying, oh, OK, Oh, my friend said this, that, that that is that correct? OK, I need to ask you some more questions on this and this and this. He's just going to come and say, So what do you need? And then my friend is supposed to repeat the whole thing again. And then if at that stage my friend doesn't respond, the tax consultants will now be thinking this guy is on serious.
If he was serious, wouldn't be ghosting us. Can you guys now see some of the things that go on behind the scenes that lead to people ghosting us? OK, Yeah. So let me see. OK, the big problems pinging back and forth for eight days. Don't be chatting anybody for eight days. Get on the phone, have a quick conversation. If the person is abroad, get on WhatsApp, get on Skype, have a quick convo. The person started off this whole thing with price.
Don't avoid it based on little you know give a range. Then get permission to ask more questions and let the person know that depending on what you uncover, the price may go up or it may go down. So let's see what else now I talk about try OK, 30 minutes. OK, this will be the last one. Now on the podcast, I talk about how we need to have a qualifications and discovery process. Qualification is you're asking questions about the problem.
Discovery, sorry, the other way around. Discovery is that you're asking questions about the problem. Qualification is that you're asking questions about the person. You need to have a good idea of who this person is and what the problem is before you can give any kind of proposal, which is why I was confused that the chatted for 8 days and then person said I'll be sending you a contact. He will contact you shortly. Because the tax consultant, the accounting person didn't ask,
excuse me, didn't ask some basic questions. Number one, I was shocked that the tax and the accounting person did not ask. OK, so thank you very much for reaching out. So what kind of business are you involved in? The person didn't ask that question. I don't know how you sell professional services. You chat with someone over 8 days. You did not even ask the person what kind of business are you in? What's the nature of your business?
What kind of industry are you in? I am not an accounting person, but I'm assuming that kind of information is important because I think preparing accounting books or whatever for somebody who is in manufacturing will not be the same as producing accounting reports for somebody like me who is a one man show. So even at the very least you need to ask before you know what am I charging you or who am I sending you to. So ask the person this kind of question.
Now what line of business are you in? Are you self-employed? You work for somebody else, What's your relationship with the business owner? Do you own the business? Let's see what else, what kind of industries, you know, all these sorts of things. The tax person also did not ask questions on size of revenue or size of employees. How many employees do you have? How much money are you guys making? I'm assuming that these things are also important.
By the way, if you're a tax person or you're an accounting person listening to the show and I'm making too much of a big deal about some of these questions, please ping me a message and educate me so I can come back here and then let people know that. OK, you know what? I overspoke on this one. But I really don't think as a layman, because when it comes to tax, I'm a layman. I know nothing. So as a layman, I really think as a layperson, rather let's be inclusive here.
I think you need to ask nature of the business, the industry, how much money are you guys making? How many employees do people have? The person who didn't ask on history of filings or returns or financial statements, you need to know how long has this person been in business? If this person has been in business for 20 years but has never filed a single tax return, no more. Your business, your, your, your, your work is cut out for you as a tax person.
Think of the amount of work you're going to do, trying to do detective work over the past 20 years. So you need to ask these things. But if somebody, the person has been in business for the past 20 years and the person has filed 19 times, they only missed the last two years, It's a different thing. The level of work you do has calmed down. You even know what to request of the guy. OK, you know what, it could be this, it could be that, but just send me the previous things you've had.
Let me just skim through. You know, you will let me know where it is we need to go to next. So easy to ask these questions. How long have you been in business? How many times have you filed? The times that you filed, which one did you file? Did you file from ABC or from XYZ? How many annual returns Did you do? Financial statements? How many financial statements have you guys been doing? The figures you will keep? How do you do it?
Is it your wife that is writing everything on pencil and paper or or is it your older brother entering all your expenses and your inflow and everything on an Excel sheet? I'll be do you guys have CRM or invoicing software where everything is passing into and everything is being stored? See, I'm a layman so I don't know much but I'm assuming you have to ask all these kinds of questions before you say let me refer you to somebody else or let me charge you 2.5 M.
Then you also need to ask the question of the needs. Wait, just starting off the conversation by asking the person what do you need? The person does not know you are the professional. So as a tax person, OK, as a normal human being, yeah. But because my background is in law, I have small on this. OK, let me just make a guess. Because my background is in law, I'm assuming that if somebody reaches out to an accountant, the person might need compliance issues like OK, this is what I've been doing.
Am I meeting up with the law when it comes to tax and filing Inland Revenue and all that? Or the person might need help with reporting like we have already done our whatever in house. You just take all this information, prepare the final figure and then send it to federal Inland Revenue Board on our behalf. And here take your professional services money. Or maybe the person needs payroll because you accounting and tax people can also sort that out as well.
OK, you're paying this person too much. You should be paying this. This one, according to the tax code, should be this according to tax code should be that, or it could be bookkeeping services. Or sometimes it can just be general business advisory, like, oh, OK, it looks like all the things people are doing are correct. Our point. But in my own professional opinion, from a strategic level, this is how you should be handling this tax issue.
This is how you're handling that tax issue. So my small knowledge of the law, because for lawyers, it's, I'm not a lawyer anymore anyway, but for lawyers, these are the sorts of things that we handle for our clients too. We handle compliance, we handle OK. We don't do reporting. Reporting is mostly accounts, Abby. Well, in a way you can say we do reporting, but it's not number, number, number reporting. Because if you're going to be making returns to, let's say,
Securities and Exchange Commission or Corporate Affairs Commission, then yes, that's also some sort of reporting. So layers also do compliance. They do reporting, OK. We don't do payroll, we don't do bookkeeping, but we do business advisory. So instead of saying what do you need, start asking the person questions that will now explore exactly what it is that you're looking for. Don't say compliance because like I said, let's assume that the person doesn't know what's up and the person doesn't know what compliance means.
Maybe I know what compliance means because I studied law, so I have a sense of it. But perhaps if you call one of my uncles, even the rich ones, and you say, oh, so do you, So what are your needs? Are your needs compliance? You know, if I have a rich uncle who got wealthy by farming and maybe he didn't finish. Maybe he stopped at secondary school. You know, compliance could mean I don't know anything. So use simple language, ask questions, try and break it down.
So what are you looking for? Are you looking for someone who's just going to take all this information and send everything to inner revenue at the end of the year? Or is the problem that as you're running this business every single day, you don't know how, where the money is coming in, where the money is going to. So and now you know that what we call bookkeeping, we'll just be tracking where's the money coming? Where's the money going?
Is that what it is that you're looking for? And you tax accounting people, you're the professional. So you know how you take all these big, big words and then you reduce it to something that is relatable that people can understand. So I think that's the final big problem that I'm covered in the whole process that a professional chattered with a layperson over 8 days and did not even ask these basic questions. We should be asking simple questions like this as part of our discovery and our qualifications process.
We should be trying to figure out who is this person? We should be trying to figure out what is the problem. If you are a tax person, accountant, specialist person, please do not tell me you've chatted with somebody for one week. You did not ask the person what business are you in, what industry are you in? How long have you been in the business? How much money have you made over XYZ period? How many employees do you have?
What are the filings that you have done over the past X years? What are the returns that you have given to Inland Revenue Service over the last XYZ years? How many financial statements do you have for XYZ years or do you have a current financial statements for the last accounting period 2022 into 2023? And then all those questions around whether it's compliance they need or reporting or payroll or bookkeeping or advisory.
So these are some tips about how those of us were in professional services. We need to run a consultative sales process. And this is the reason why I keep telling people that when it comes to running our sales process, the people we should be looking at actually is doctors. Because there is no how a doctor will prescribe paracetamol or surgery or that you have to go out and cut off your left testicle or whatever without asking you some basic questions.
A doctor will not say, let me refer you to somebody. The person will call you without asking you some simple questions. When did you start feeling this way? When did they start painting you this pus? When did you see the pus? Your leg? When did your leg fall off? It's when the person ask you all this question. You know that. OK, you know what? Me, I'm a family doctor. This thing is sounding like cancer. I do not handle cancer.
So let me hand you over to my oncologist. My oncologist will call you next week Monday. That's why I keep telling people the people who need to pretend to be is like doctors. A doctor will not prescribe medicine without asking you some basic questions. Oh, young man, welcome. How have you been when the detain start painting you? How many sexual partners do you have? Your father, What killed your father? Did he die of diabetes?
The place you're living in, Are there too many mosquitoes? You know, question, question, question, question, question. So he's after asking all these questions that the doctor now says, OK, based on what we've spoken about so far, this is my professional recommendation. You're running mad. And because you're running mad, you need two things. You need brain surgery. We're going to cut out 1/4 of your brain and throw it away.
And then we're going to refer you to a psychiatrist. So how does that sound? You see, so that's how a doctor handles that conversation. Because if you just go and sit down and the doctor says, oh, welcome, what we're going to do, we're going to do brain surgery. You will say, OK, doctor, I'm coming. You stand up and you will leave and you never come back. You see, this doctor is a madman. He didn't ask me any question.
How does he know what to prescribe next? How does he know? So please, those are watching, consult professional services. Let us stop this whole thing of giving a price. We haven't asked all these questions or advising somebody to do something. We haven't even asked all these basic questions. So if you're taking nothing else out of this episode, it should be this. We need to have a process for discovery and the process for what's the other word,
qualification, Qualification and discovery. You need to know some more about what that is. Like I've said, the podcast is now available on YouTube, over 925 episodes over there on YouTube. So go there, search my name. My name is Tavishima Ayede. I'm the host of the show. There's no need to put the Ayede because Tavishima is not a very popular name. So just type in Tavishima, the type in qualification. Every single episode that I've made over the 920 something episodes will show up there.
Start listening to these things one by one. Have your pen on your paper. Start writing down stuff that you can apply tomorrow. I mean, apart from that char GPT is available, Google Gemini, stuff like that. You can actually you can actually put it in these things. I'm a tax accountant. I'm a something something specialist living in Abuja FCT trying to attract clients within the something something and something range. I might be having a meeting tomorrow with a potential customer who is in The Who is in the in the business or selling weed and narcotic substances.
What are the kind of qualification and discovery questions that I should ask the person so we can have a productive meeting? And then you hit send Cha GPT is going to list a bunch of stuff. If it lists out 10 things and you think 5 don't make sense, ignore the five. If you think 5 look OK, but three are very promising, take those three and then turn into the into the conversation with this person and you find that you have a very promising interaction.
So yeah, that's it. Use YouTube, look for more resources from me. You will learn how to come up with your own discovery qualification questions. You know now know how to run that part of the sales process. So you're having fruitful conversations then let's see what else. OK, I've already told you guys about AI. Of course there are other episodes I've done around AI so you can know how to prompt better then. OK, yes, connect with me on WhatsApp.
The phone number is 08064662140. Country code is +234. Then I'm on LinkedIn connect with me on LinkedIn, the name establishing my ID. Like I said, confirm the spelling of my name from the link. We're listening to the show. So if you're on YouTube, bottom left above the title, you see my name. Just highlight and copy and then paste that into LinkedIn. And then my handsome face is when you show up and then click connect and then send me a message.
So I know that you found me from the podcast because I have a soft spot for those of you who find me from the podcast. And I try to engage as many of you guys in conversation as possible. But like I said, you know, I'm trying to run a business and do a bunch of other stuff, so I might not respond to you immediately. But anyhow, anyhow, 2448 hours, you definitely will hear from me. So thanks for listening to the episode.
And yeah, thanks for listening and keeping company with me for the last 45 minutes. So thanks for your time and attention. I'll catch you guys at the next episode. Hopefully the next episode is going to be shorter. So you all have a wonderful day.