The Art of Outreach: Random Thoughts and Practical Tips

Hello and welcome to the show. Before we begin, the usual apologies because today's an out and about episode. In fact, I'm in the middle of market runs and it's going to be a tight day today. So I figured, let me just make the podcast episode real quick. But at least I wound up the windows, so that should minimise some of the noise in the background, you know, people driving by, people haggling, people selling their wares and all that good stuff.

So today's episode is going to be a random 1. I don't have one topic in particular that I want to discuss, you know, some stuff. How do I put in? You know, when you are a professional salesperson, it's just something that you notice. You know how people are trying to sell. When you notice good examples of people selling well or examples of people selling poorly, you just notice. You just notice these sorts of things. Sorry.

Hold on. Let me take off my glasses. Yeah, because I'm not reading, so I don't need the glasses. Now, where was I? Yeah. So you just noticed stuff here and there. I noticed that it's. It's not just me, but other people who are business owners, self-employed people, but who like the discipline of selling. You just noticed a couple of things. So there's been a bunch of stuff that has happened around me and, you know, it's got me thinking.

And I figured that these would be good case studies to come and talk about over here on the podcast. And so today's episode is just my random thoughts when it comes to outreach and inbound. So like I said, they've been a couple of other stuff, but I think let me just deal with two today and then if I can remember the others, we'll take it from there. So the first random thing that I want to make a comment on is this whole thing of whether you should say your name and your company name and all that, you know, when you're calling people out for the first time, when you're doing outreach.

OK, Well, First off, let me define what outreach is for those of you who are newbies listening to the show. If this is your first time, outreach is just like it sounds, any activity that you're doing to reach out to people to see how you can get business from them. So if you're on, so it's not really the platform per SE that determines whether it's outreach or not. It's it's the initiative who determines because like I said,

I'm talking about outreach and inbound. So it can be outreach even though you're on Instagram. If you're the one who sent the DM, then that's outreach. But if you're on Instagram and you received the DM, then that is inbound. Inbound just means other people reaching in to you. So it's not really the and the platform. Please, I want to stress this because there are a bunch of people who just assume that, oh, they just say Instagram, e-mail,

blah, blah, blah, all of that inbound. And no, it's not the case. It's about the initiative who initiated the activity. Oh, sorry if I sound funny and I'm breathing heavy. It's because, you know, the usual, my son came back with who knows what he came back with this time and, you know, sneezed all over me and, you know, now I have it. And apart from that, looks like he's coming down with an ear infection. So we even have to go to the hospital later on in the day.

It's one of the things that is making my day tight. So yeah. Yeah. So apologies. So today's episode, tomorrow, maybe the day after tomorrow. Yeah. Labored breathing, sniffling, nasal sounding, all those sorts of things. Aha. So where was I? Aha. So I was talking about the difference between outreach and then inbound. So there are some people who, when they do outreach, they like to, you know, do the whole spiel. Hello, my name is Chukudi.

So, so, so, so I'm a that, that, that, that, that, and I'm with ABC company, you know, something, something, something, you know, the usual. And well, first of all, I, I think it's good practice to say who you are and what you're on about. But I think that because of the amount of messaging that people receive nowadays and because of the availability of modern communication and, you know, stuff like that, I think people are really, really overwhelmed with all this messaging.

And I think that when you reach out to people, they don't really give a who, who you are. Well, in a sense, yes. But I think the two main concerns are, you know, who is this person? Why is this person calling and when you pick up the phone or when you go to somebody's office and you start or whatever by my name is Chukwudi, I'm from XYZ company, something, something we specialize in, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That is really one minute that you've taken off the person's time and you haven't gotten to the root of why is this person here?

And that part is just white noise. And I really don't think it's effective. However, when I work with people, depending on where they're at, sometimes I just let them do it because it's a crutch. If you tell them just do without it. Some people find it inconceivable. So I figured, let me just use an example today to show my philosophy around it and to tell you how I go around this thing of name, company name, blah blah blah.

So my own opinion, should you say your name or your company name when you pick up the phone? Should you introduce yourself like that? My own opinion, the answer is no. Instead of going through pains to say who you are, what your company is, what you specialize in and blah blah blah, I think should just get straight to the .0. By the way, this is not for everybody. I mean it takes a while. So I've been selling for a bit.

I finished my legal training almost 20 years ago. So. So you know, legal practice, wedding photography, me and my brother, the export business and then now selling consultancy services. So this is not my first time I've had some practice. I've built some confidence along the way. So for me, it's not a problem. So for you, if you're a first timer, yeah, this might seem scary. So if you're a first timer, continue with the whole thing of my name is Shukudi, XYZ company,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We specialize in this da da da da. Do the whole 1 mini thing. Well, for those of you who have some experience behind you, you don't have to say your name or your company name because nobody gives a you know, I'm not use foul language. So don't rather confirm that you're talking to the right person because after you've been doing this introduction thing for a while, you realise that you spend a great deal of time introducing yourself to the wrong person.

You're going, hello, my name is Chukudi. So, so, so and so company HPS in this, this and da, da, da, da, da. You do your homage bill and then it turns out that the person you're talking to actually is a secretary and she has to pass you along to somebody else. Then you get passed along to that person and then you're going to your host bill of my name is Chukudi. So, so, so company, we specialize in this, this, this and blah, blah, blah, blah,

blah, blah. And you might not be talking to the right person as well. So for me, I think it's just calling 1st order of the day is confirm that you're talking to the right person and then from there it is OK to go straight into your intention on what the purpose of the call is. From there you can slide into need analysis. If you are making traction on this call, if you're talking to the right person and you guys have an understanding around your value proposition and your needs, analysis.

By the time you are done, they are the ones who will ask you about your personal details. And I use that as a sign of whether I am making progress or not. So I call, I confirm I'm talking to the right person, state my intent, I'm going to need analysis. If by the time we're done, there's no meeting of the minds as as per we're not blending what I have on offer, they don't need clearly at that point they're not going to ask me.

Oh young man, by the way, what's your name again? But if I have a wonderful conversation and it looks like my products or services might be able to help them, of course they will ask, oh young man, what did you say your name was again? So part of the reasons why I ever stopped doing the whole introduction thing was because especially my wedding photography days, I realised that, you know, back then I used to take this thing personal,

that they didn't store my phone number. And maybe other industries are different, but for wedding photography in the early days, the bride is talking to 5-6 other wedding photographers. She's talking to two or three wedding planners. She's talking to two or three videographers. She's talking to two or three caterers. For bridal dress, she's considering maybe two people. Bottom line is the bride in wedding, when it comes to events, the bride is talking no joke.

She's talking to like 30 vendors at any given point in time. Given those situations, the bride is not storing anybody's number except if like you guys are making progress. So I used to get offended that we thought what I we had what I thought was a nice conversation during the bride affair, only for me to call up later on. I said like, oh, sorry, I didn't store your number. And that used to piss me off. Like you didn't store my number.

Like really? We used to used to upset me. So anyway, me not introducing myself and everything, that's where it started from. Like it doesn't matter anyway. So I would just call and just get straight out of the business. And I just realized that after a while, if you're making traction with some people, they would end up storing your number, taking an interest in company name and blah, blah, blah, and all those sorts of things.

So summary, there's no need to say your name, confirm that you're talking to the right person. Go on, state your intention, your purpose, moving to need analysis. If you're making traction, they will request all these details. If there is no traction, they will politely refuse whatever it is that you have to sell and they won't ask for your name or your company name and it's fine. You can just move on. No harm, no foul.

It's just business. You thank them, you move on, and you live to fight another day. Tomorrow you call somebody else, or if you had a list today, you call on another person. So that's just how it works. So as a case study, let me use the personal outreach that I did yesterday. I was calling into the Abuja Property Development Company in Abuja. And that's because if you've been listening to the show for a while, you know that I did some work with Cairo, some HOF, that is the property development firm that is owned by Dibanj Dibanja and his brother.

You know Dibanj, the famous musician, you know, he had his old jam like like when I was in uni. Is it Tongolo make a tell them the Coco, you know, that whole thing. So the Banj and yeah, Don Jazzy. Yeah, Don Jazzy used to. They used to be, there were like 5 and 6 back in those days. That's before they broke up. So where was I? Yeah. So I've done some work for Cairo's HOF, the Banjee property firm, and I think the engagement that we did with them at the time was how to close the deal in real estate.

Then it turned out to be a good program. And of course, since then, some of the people that I roll with have thought it's something I should package up and sell to other property development firms as well. And so that's the reason why I have some of these companies on my list for outreach. So I remember when I was talking about outreach and inbound, you know, so now you see the difference. I have a list of companies I'm going after.

I'm picking up the phone and I'm calling them up or I'm going to the offices. That is outreach. I'm the one who is reaching out to people. But then if any of them happen to listen to this podcast and they like the episode on how to close the deal in real estate and then they call me, that is inbound. So remember, for those of you who are newbies. So that's the difference. So yes, I called into Abuja property development company.

Now most of you would like to start off the call by saying something like hello, my name is Chukudi, I'm a sales consultant, I'm a business development coach. I have over X number of years experience in the whatever we work with companies that do this, that, that, that, that and we have also served social and so competitors in your space. And the reason why I'm calling you is ABC and XYZ. So I've already told you guys that, that, that Turinge that long talk, I think it's, it's too much.

You're calling somebody out of the blue and you're going to spend the 1st 2 minutes of the call talking about yourself. That's a waste of time. So what I did was first of all, to be sure that I'm talking to the right person. Typically I tried to do some research before I call into people because the conversation is going to flow a lot smoother if you call in and you say hello. Is this so? Oh yes, that's the company. Can you put me through to Chukudi, please?

Or can I speak to Chukudi, please? That is a much quicker conversation because you're calling in, you have somebody's name, the secretary, the customer service person, whoever answered the call, you know, they know how to just route the call quickly rather than you calling a general line and you trying to see if you can make a sales call out of the number that is on their website or the Instagram handle. But unfortunately for which a property development company,

when I just did my basic research, you know, I checked those websites, I had a bunch of phone numbers there. And it's something I've been talking about on the podcast. Like guys, really, there's no point in you having 10 numbers up on the website if only two of them are working. There's like this, there's, there's no point really. You're just frustrating people. And the average person I think might call the first 3 and like,

whoa, these people aren't serious and then go and call somebody else. Anyway, they didn't have 10. I think they had more like 7 phone numbers and I had to get to the fourth number before I got one that was working. So for those of you who have websites that have been piling on numbers, look, don't pile on numbers. There are three services. I've been like, like I'll say there are three or four services in Nigeria. There's MTN, there's a Tisa lot,

there's Glow and there's what else? There's Airtel. So I know it is a lot, 9 mobile, so that's four. So if you're running on this whole whatever that you want people to be able to reach you all the time, then just get those four lines. That'd be 4 numbers, an MTN number and it's this lad number a, an Airtel number and whichever one the 4th 1 is and then that's it. Full stop. This whole thing of 710, I've seen 11 and you know, the person calls, this number is no longer registered.

This no longer is no longer. This user is something, something, something all those error messages. So stop stacking all those phone numbers. Certainly I called and eventually I got through. And so step one, confirm that you're talking to the right person. In this case, I did my research. I could not get anybody's name. So I asked to speak to someone in the sales and or marketing division. And then the person is, oh, yeah, sure, no problem, I can do that.

But before I do so, can I have the nature of your call? Why are you calling? I'm paraphrasing because, you know, I can't remember. It was yesterday and. Well, anyway, yeah. So what's the nature of your call? I said alright, sure, no problem. And then I went straight into my intent, which was how did I put it? I didn't write it down because, you know, at this stage I don't write down all my sales scripts. You know, I'm good enough to freestyle and run from memory because I've been doing this for a while.

But basically, I must, I must have said something around, you know, I'm calling up property development companies to see if they have any problems with sales and marketing processes and to see how I can provide free solutions for that. And yes, I say free deliberately. The whole point is that I want to be able to have a, an audit, an audit conversation with whoever it is that is the decision maker. And if the audit conversation turns out to be a valuable one from then, I will be able to now make a pitch or a proposal about how we can work in work in some paid engagements.

So that's my scope when calling into these sorts of people. This is not my scope when calling into every single person, but that's the scope when I'm calling into property development companies in this case. So what I'm saying is when I said that I'm trying to solve their challenges for free, actually that's just an excuse for me to have a discovery call. I'm trying to figure out do they have any problems that I have the skill set to be able to solve in the 1st place.

And you see the reason why I recommend these, these sorts of approaches that's going straight into needs analysis. So we have we. Oh, yeah, By the way, it turns out that I was lucky. And yes, there's a limit of lock in sales because the person that I happened to be talking to turns out that he's the head of, so I was it again, he's the head of, sorry, forgive me, I've put everything down in my CRM. He's the head of corporate communications for the business,

Abuja Property Development Company. So he's head of corporate communications. So it turns out I was talking to the right person. And yeah, of course, it was cool to have the conversation. So we just started this thing, rapport building. Well, First off, you know, I asked his name, he gave me an evil sounding name and I was shocked. I told him, oh look, you sound like a northern. I wasn't expecting a neighbor name. I was like, Oh yeah, I grew up in KD.

So remember when we talk about commonality? So that was the level of commonality that we established. Oh like oh, you, you grew up in KD and when Abuja boys say Abuja, which school, CKC, small talk blah blah, blah blah, blah. But not to believe about the issue, we're not here to make friends. So establish that level of commonality. We're both Northern ish kind of guys. And then moved on. And then I started asking questions about the business.

I wanted to get a sense of the strength of the sales team. That's where I start all these sorts of conversations because I want to figure out what kind of sales team do they even have and what are the problems that they're facing. And we had a wonderful conversation and it was really, really interesting. It turns out they only have a sales team of four people for the whole organization. I found that strange, but then I

pressed some more and then found out that for them, their business is built around online marketing and the websites, and also they have marketing officers that are attached to each project site. So let's say they have something going up in Wagwalada. You know, the building project in Waggle Ladder is going to have a marketing team that is attached to that, and that marketing team are mostly agents who are 100% commissioned.

And yeah, it's an interesting model. So it turns out that the sales people that they have are mostly account maintenance people. So what that means is they handle customer service issues. Yeah, they handle customer service issues basically. So I wouldn't consider that sales, but anyway that's what the organization call sales. So of course giving the setup, you know, I just pointed out quickly that look, it looks like everything is going on well.

Oh, another thing that was really interesting about the conversation was their problem is not sales because in fact their own problem is inventory. They have cranked up the website, marketing and online everything so much that they have leads coming in, but they do not have inventory to supply. They don't have the houses. And the estates enough to meet their demands. So they're actually trying to scale back sales activities.

So at that point, I was like, bro, looks like you guys have a tight ship. Looks like everything is running perfectly fine. It's like there's no, like, there's really nothing I can do for you guys. And it's like, yeah, of course now. But, you know, definitely now we're supposed to keep in touch, that sort of thing. So by the way, what's your name again? And that is when I now dropped my name. I didn't drop the business name because at this stage I don't think business name is important.

Everybody will see your business name when you send the invoice anyway. So I never say the whole my company is something, something, something. So he asked me what's my name? I told him and I said I'll send him a text message because not everybody knows how to spell Tavishima. Lots of people have not even heard Tavishima before. So lots of people hear it and they think, you know, who's your property? German is your popsy German, you see Japanese, you know, where are you from?

You know that whole thing. So then I told him my name. I remember what I told you guys. Now that's the sign that I'm making traction. So OK, cool. Even though there's no opportunity for business now, a warm introduction has been made. He's going to go into part of my networking cadence. And who knows what tomorrow may hold, But for now, there's no room there because they don't have any obvious lapses in the sales and marketing processes that I can help them, that I can help them fix.

So his name goes into my CRM as a contact, not as a lead because there is no lead to pursue now. So here's my CRM just as a contact. And then I scheduled a follow up activity. I can't remember what the follow up activity was. It has it has to be something value add anyway, I can't remember what it was, but anyway, I remember that the the activity that I scheduled for follow up was for was it 4 weeks, 4 weeks or six weeks?

I can't remember. But bottom line, it's all there. It's my notes. I don't even have to remember because six weeks from now my phone is going to do pinging and I'll look and we'll be there. Reminder head of corporate communications Mr. So so so and so I will click on it. The note will open up and it will say there last conversation had on 23rd September 2024. Outcome of the conversation. Next step is do this, do this, do this and I will just simply follow the instructions six weeks from now that I put into my phone yesterday.

You see why I've been telling you guys that having ACRM or using your phone as ACRM is one way that we can grow our businesses. We cannot remember everything. I had a conversation with this fellow yesterday. I'm trying to run from Running from Memory now and clearly I've forgotten a lot of the details. But six weeks from now, a reminder will come up on my phone with all the key details. I need to remember who it was, who I spoke to since I ran the call through the CRM.

It will even show there, you know, how long the phone conversation was. And most importantly, the next steps that I need to take as part of my networking sequence. Because remember, in this case, there's no deal. It is there. So please, the episodes that I've made about using the CRM or using your phone as ACRM, please, you guys pay attention to that. Check YouTube, put my name there. Tabishima, type in CRM. All the episodes I've done around that CRM is just customer relationship management or client relationship management tool.

So it'll come up and then you'll help guide you. So yeah, so this is just one example about how this whole thing works. Now, if you're new in business, I understand it is going to sound scary, but for those of you who've been doing this for a while, you've been running things two years, three years, four years. Give it a try instead of that whole 2 minutes. You know, my name is Chukudi. So, so and so. I am the best, I'm the brightest, I'm the greatest ABC

company. So, so and so incorporated this blah, blah, blah. 12 years of experience. You know, that whole 2 minute thing. Just cut it out. Be sure that you're talking to the right person. In fact, if you do small research, you check the LinkedIn handle, you check the website, and you know that the person you're supposed to call speak to is the. OK, let's say you sell. Let's let me see. Let me see. OK, I'm next to a bookshop right now.

So let's say you sell stationary. If you go and check that LinkedIn and you see who is the head of procurement? Yeah, I think if you sell stationary, the person you should be talking to is the head of procurement. If you get the head of procurements phone number and the lady's name is Ngozi Ngozi Henatro, you really, really pay for you to just simply pick up the phone call in. Don't do the whole this da, da, da, da, my company something,

something, just call in. Hello, is this ABC Construction company? So yes, it is. Please can you, can you put me through to Ngozi Henatro? So. OK. I mean, you have a much more promising conversation. I mean, that way if you call in, you have a specific name, you tell the person, the person will route you, most likely they'll want to know what's the purpose of the call. And you just, you just tell the person and yeah, you won't have a promising conversation that way.

So confirm you're talking to the right person, state your intention, go straight into needs analysis. If it looks like there's room, then the next step is you're going to schedule a meeting where you guys have a Zoom call or you go to their office or you get them to come to yours so you guys can start exploring the problem in some more detail. So that's part of my random thoughts when it comes to outreach and the reason why I

say please cut out that whole 2 mini thing of saying your name or your company name, how much experience you have and everything. Just be sure you're talking to the right person. Go straight into the meat of the matter. Then something else I wanted to talk about. This one is inbound related. Oh, it's almost 30 minutes. OK, let me just wrap this one up quickly. So on the inbound front, this is because of that friend of mine who is looking for a tax or accounting specialist.

Now, eventually the accounting people got back to him and the conversation started off with what do you want? So I want to address you people who start off the conversation by saying what do you want? Because I've run into some of those people myself. And I don't think that that is a very helpful way to start off the conversation, especially when you are in a complex sale. If you're a Carpenter, you can't start off the conversation by saying what do you want?

But if you sell legal services or if you sell accounting services or business consulting services, what do you want is not a helpful way to start off the conversation when somebody calls you inbound. Because when you're dealing with complex sales, the customer does not know what they want. They have a hint, but they don't know what they want. It is you who knows what they want. So if you call up someone and you ask if someone calls you up as a lawyer and say what do you want?

I mean, the person doesn't know if it's a landlord tenancy thing. I guess the landlord just wants the person to leave the house. But you as a lawyer, you're the one who knows that, OK, you need to follow this legal process. You need to send a letter first or you need to go to this court or you need to do this or you need to do that. And you're the one who has the professional knowledge. So just start off the conversation by, well, first of all, you have to take the initiative.

This whole thing of throwing the ball into the customer's court is not going to help when you're dealing with complex I'll scenarios because they don't know what they want. They're kind of confused. So just use open-ended questions and then try and lead the conversation along with you exploring with questions and with insights. So you can start with open questions. One of the questions that we explored in the past is, is well, how can I help you today?

So when you start off with how can I help you today, the person is going to go into the whole story of the person is just going to give you the whole story. And as the customer narrates the story, because you're the professional, you're now going to be able to ask particular questions to narrow down what the next step is going to be. So as they're talking, use questions to tease out the issues from the issues you're going to be able to make a proposal or a recommendation.

And hopefully if you're talking to the right person who can afford and you can indeed solve their problems, you know, maybe there might be a chance of you closing the deal or not. So back to my friend and the whole tax thing, tax thing and say, what do you want? So my friend, I said honestly, like, you know what? I really don't know what it is that I want because I know nothing about tax. This is my background. I used to run this company.

This is what we did. I know that we filed this and this before and now I'm into a new thing and I want to comply now. So Olga, what do you think? So that's how the conversation, that's how the conversation went. So how I put it? Oh yeah. So that's how the the conversation, that's how the conversation started. And because my friend is also in the sales space, he was one who took the initiative for leading the conversation along and were able to come up with an action plan about what needs to be done next.

But don't count on the fact that your customer is going to be able to take the initiative all the time. You are the one who will be taking the initiative. Just start off with open-ended questions. You know, how can I help you today? Let the person say the whole story and then you ask questions to try and narrow down what the problem is and then you lead the conversation. But summary, let me just put it this way, since we're already at 30 minutes, I've been saying time and time again on the podcast that we should always pretend to be doctors.

No matter what you do. Pretend to be a doctor. If you're a lawyer, pretend to be a doctor. If you're a computer, pretend to be a doctor. If you saw a catfish, pretend to be a doctor. If you sell cement, pretend to be a doctor. And This is why, Because the doctor consultation model is the best way to run a sale. Because a doctor will never say, OK, welcome young man, sit down, what do you want? A doctor will never ask you that.

Because the doctor knows that you know nothing about your body, the whole system, how it works together. The doctor was OK, how can I help you today? Or is this a follow up visit or you know something, all these general whatever. Then you will now start telling the story that oh, my head is paining me, my leg is paining me, blah, blah, blah, this and this and that and that. You're the one, the Doctor Who now ask for the relevant conversations at the end of the day will say, oh, OK, yes, we know what the problem is.

The problem is your left testicle. We have to operate and we have to remove it. Now, if you leave it to the guy himself, the guy will not know that, you know, pain in the head and pain in the leg, that the problem might be in the left testicle. By the way, I'm just making stuff up so the doctor doesn't doesn't say what do you want and then try to give you what you have said. The doctor will listen to what you think the problem is, but the doctor will ask you questions and come up with his or her own recommendation about what it is that needs to be done.

So it's the same thing no matter what it is that you sell. Just pretend that you're a doctor. So if you sell tax services, it's no matter of what you want, 'cause like I explained in that episode, for tax accounting services legal, you know, there is. You can sell compliance or you can sell this compliance. What again, I can't remember, you know, because I've, I've been out of the field for a very long time. But you sell, OK, There's there's registration, there's compliance, there's monitoring where there's, you know,

different kinds of services that you can sell when you're in that space. So you don't expect the person to say, oh, OK, I need compliance services on something, something, something this and this and that and that. Ask the questions. Let the person tell the whole story. You're the one that will now say that. OK, based on what we said so far, I think the main problem they're facing is, is, is that that, that, you know, is that correct?

The person will say yes or maybe no. We ask some more questions. Eventually I'm going to be able to narrow things down, come up with a specific proposal based on what we've heard. I think the next of our action is that we should do it like this, like this, like this. I'll be how do you feel? So, OK, I think that can solve the problem. OK, Based on what we've discussed so far, to solve this problem, we can use either options AB or C and it should cost anything between, you know,

2.5 M and 3.2. Is that something you're willing to invest in today? And then you keep quiet and then you hear what the person has to say. The money qualification part really, really important part of the thing that helps you know, whether you're dealing with a serious buyer in quote, because in Lagos and then when I got to Abuja in in the wedding photography space, I noticed that vendors used to say those things a lot like don't mind that she's a serious bride.

So I hope you know, whether you're talking to a serious buyer or not. But anyway, yeah, I've been waffling over the I've been talking too much. Let me just bring it to a close. So my random thoughts on outreach and inbound today basically is when you are reaching out to people, there's no point in introducing yourself and your company and years of experience and everything. Be sure you're talking to the right person. State the reason why you're calling.

Go straight into needs analysis. If there's room, then fix an appointment. If there's no room, say thank you very much for your time and you end it there. There's no point. Tomorrow you'll call somebody else. Then if it's inbound, don't ask the person what do you want. It's not helpful. open-ended questions. How can I help you today? For those of you who are Instagram vendors, have you seen anything on the site in particular that you like?

And then you start the conversation from there. So if it's the whole pyjama thing, the woman who sells pyjamas, because my wife likes to buy pyjamas around Christmas, Christmas pyjamas, she always buys for the kids. She never buys for me. I mean, woman, you should buy stuff for your husband. It's not nice. Yeah. So is there anything on the side that you've seen that catches your fancy? OK, Nice. Good colour. That colour.

Oh, by the way, how old are your children? Or are they boys or girls? Oh, OK, boys. OK. For that, we would also recommend this and this and that and that. You know, that's how you drive the conversation along. So. Yeah. So that's what my random episode today. You know what? I think I'll just go back to answering questions tomorrow. Perhaps these random rambling episodes are not the best use of your time. OK. So thank you very much for your time and attention.

Please connect with me on LinkedIn the name to look for establishment. Ayede, you can confirm the spelling of my name from the link where you're listening to this episode. Then also connect on WhatsApp. The phone number is 08064662140. Country code is +234. So thanks for your time and attention. I'll catch you guys in the next episode. And don't worry, I'll try not to make too many rambling episodes. I think I'll to be on the safe side tomorrow, we'll just go back to answering questions so that episodes are much more focused and less rambly.

So I'll catch you guys at the next episode.