The Invisible Ink of Communication: Uncovering Hidden Messages with Active Listening & Body Language

Hello, and welcome to the show. Today is going to be a noisy episode because I'm still out and about, but at least I've wound up the windows, so hopefully there shouldn't be too much noise bleeding in from the background. Now today we're going to continue with the book review. OK, well, it's not a book review. I know I promised you a book review in 2024. But what we're doing now is we're going to explore some themes from a sales perspective.

And the book that we're looking at is by Jeremy Hurwitz, How to Sell Like a Spy, The Art of Persuasion from the world of espionage. And this is your first time of listening to the podcast, so excuse me. We started off on this journey yesterday. So I think yesterday what I did was I explored the main thesis of the book, the main idea of the book, which is that people who are in the intelligence world, people who are in the espionage world, you know,

spies, James Bond, diplomats, you know, people like that, they have to use three main skills to do their job effectively. One of those skills is information gathering, because of course you need to know what's up. The other one is understanding human behaviour because you need to understand who, who are you talking to? Where is this person coming from? Can I trust this person? And then another one is building rapport because you know, when you get people to open up and talk about themselves, reveal their secrets, you know, things like that, unless you guys are vibing, unless you guys are flowing, unless you guys like each other.

So it's an essential skill that people in that part of the world have to do, you know, James Bond and, you know, diplomats and more or not. And it's also essential skill that those of us in business have to do as well. So wherever you are in the world, you know, whether you're in Makudi, you're in Abuja or Alaska, you have to be involved in information gathering, understanding human behavior and building rapport if you're a business person.

So the whole point of the book is that there's some overlap in these skills. So diplomats and spies have to use these skills. And then those of us who are regular everyday ordinary business people, even though we're not involved in car chases and explosions and things like that, and even though we're not negotiating with our presidents and heads of state and, you know, traditional artist or whatever, we'll have to use these skills as well.

So that was pretty much what we covered in the intro video. Sorry, not video audio. There's no video component to this podcast yet. You know, I'll get to it soon, but not today. Yeah. So that's what we we did yesterday. If this your first time of listening to the show, after you're done listening to this podcast, skip back one episode. Listen to that and you get caught up to speed. Now, if you'd love to connect with me, the phone number is 08064662140.

The country code is +234. For those of you who are not Nigerian, that's my WhatsApp number as well. Then connect with me on socials on LinkedIn. The name to look for is Tave Shima Aidi. So we're continuing with the themes from the book today. And I promised you guys yesterday that we would now look at Chapter 1, which is the art of the approach, understand your audience and tailor your approach accordingly. So again, Chapter 1 is titled The Art of the Approach.

Understand your audience and tailor your approach accordingly. And in that particular Chapter 2 of the key things, Abby, yeah, two of the key things that he explored there were active listening and observing body language, because this is all about understanding your audience. And of course, you don't want to understand them until you observe them. And the process of observing is going to involve active listening, is going to involve body language.

So from a business perspective, now from a traditional sales perspective, what is the whole point of understanding your audience? Why do we do this? Well, of course, the answer is implied in the title that the fellow gave for the chapter. We try to understand the audience so that we can tailor our approach because from sales and business development, we know that there's no one-size-fits-all. If I'm trying to sell to a 60

year old Yoruba woman, traditionally minded, spent all her life in Ibadan, it's not necessarily the same way that I'm going to sell. If I'm selling to a another Yoruba woman of the same age, well maybe she's more cosmopolitan and she was raised in London or New York or something and she only just got back to Niger, you know, maybe like 2-3 years ago. So same age, you know, but because of differences in background and orientation, I

would have to sell to them differently. Whether I'm selling consulting services or whether I'm selling fashion or whether I'm trying to sell a house, the approach would be different. So there is no one-size-fits-all. This is another reason why I tell you guys to stop believing this crap and that people put on the Internet where they say learn this one clothes and double triple your profits. Something some some there is no one-size-fits-all.

The same way. If you try to sell the same way like you want to sell to me and the same way that you're going to sell to your popsy or momsy, it's hit and miss. You know, you have to tell her your approach, your mom saying your Popsy are different. I mean, think about it, when we were kids or when you were a kid, if you want to get something from Mumsy, there's a way you would go. If you want to get something from POPSY, there's a way you would go.

It's the same thing. So that is why we need to understand our audience so that we can tell our approach. Now, the whole point of telling the approach is so that it's personalized, it's relevant, and of course, at the end of the day, it's going to be much more effective. So that's the reason why we have to bother with understanding our audience. So hopefully, The thing is, if our approach is relevant to them and is personalized, hopefully this should lead to profitable and fulfilling engagements.

And the reason why we're trying to achieve all this is because this is the best and easiest way to get referrals. So again, back at the top, why should we bother tailoring our approach? We're telling the approach so that we can sell effectively because you can't sell the same way to every single person. If you sell effectively and you sell in a personalized manner, hopefully it's going to lead to a pleasurable experience for somebody.

On the other hand, a good user experience, a good customer experience. And when we have good user experience and customer experience, it's easier to get referrals. And remember that when it comes to traditional sales, it's not just about the money that you collect now, it's about the money that you're going to collect tomorrow, next month, next year. So nowadays, especially the online crowd, everybody's worried about, you know, do the promo, get the deal now, blah,

blah, blah, and all of that is good. But in traditional sales, I mean, think about it, those of those people who started off selling insurance, office equipment or things like that, you know, yes, if you go and sell office equipment and you know, they pay you, you know, 50 M, you know, it's good. The Commission there, yeah, let's say the Commission there is 10%, you know, you know, that's, that's nice. You go on flex.

But The thing is nobody likes that life of OK, this year I sold, you know, 200 M. Next year I have to go and look for 200 M to sell. So traditionally the scope has always been OK, yes, I got these people to buy from me this year, 50 M next year, let me see if they can buy something else. Even if it's one M2M, you know, it's not bad. So that over time, when you have a steady roster of customers, you even have to decrease, you can now relax and decrease the level of selling activity that you have to do.

So you don't have to wake up every day, every year and hit the floor hard chasing customers. So that's the scope. Remember, when we're talking about traditional sales, it's not just the money we're collecting now. We're looking for repeat business. We're looking for referrals, we're looking for upsells. We're looking to try and expand the amount of money that people are spending with us or the number of times that they buy from us.

So that's the goal. So all these are the reasons why understanding your audience is important. Now, how do we do this? We can do this well from the book anyway. We can do this by doing two things, active listening and then observing body language. Also, forgive me, I forgot to do the shout outs. The shout outs have been piling up so I'm going to be running through them in in batches. So for today's batch, I'm going to shout out Felicia.

And Felicia owns Alicia Cuisine in Makudi in Benue State, so she's one of my home girls. Felicia, thank you very much for reaching out. She reached out to me on WhatsApp. I can't remember where she started listening to the podcast from then. Also shout out to Una Min Christopher, who also reached out to me on WhatsApp. Also can't remember whether he started listening to the podcast on Spotify, iTunes or on what's the other one, Spotify, iTunes or YouTube.

Yeah. But thank you for reaching out, and I hope I pronounced your name correctly. Una Min, I'm assuming that you are, you know, Midwestern, you know, Benin, you know, Edo Isha, you know, that kind of thing. So if you are, then you're also my homeboy too, because I happen to marry from that part of the country. So, you know, we're kin, we're relatives. Then I'm also going to shout out LTE Mart. I didn't get the real name 'cause, you know, we're chatting through his WhatsApp handle,

found the show on Spotify, and he's into digital marketing. So LTE Mart, thanks for listening to the show. And then finally, I'm going to shout out Emerald. Emerald works with Compass AI and they use artificial intelligence to augment learning processes, you know, for their clients. And they're currently, we've started conversations and see how I can become a, a research person on the platform, a mentor on the platform.

And I'll keep you guys posted on how those conversations go, whether it works out well or it doesn't work out well. It sounds like a handy piece of technology to check out. So it's Compass, AICOMPAS and then AI, you know, letter a letter I artificial intelligence. So check them out. So those are the shout outs for today. Felicia, shout out to you, Uneming shout out to you, LTE Mark, mark and then emerald. OK, so now back to how we're going to where was I?

I understanding the audience how we're going to do it. Now this book proposes that we do it through two ways, active listening and then observing body language. Now, I'm going to run through some ideas when it comes to traditional sales and business development, the things that you do to make sure that you are listening actively and to make sure that you are observing body language. So for active listening, I think I mentioned to you guys yesterday that active listening doesn't just mean you're trying to listen hard because well,

anyway, there's no need for me to cover it again. But it's not just about sitting down and staying at the other person to show that you're listening hard. But yes, you do have to be focusing on the customer, focusing on the speaker, focusing on the stakeholder. So if you are a diplomat and you've been posted to let me see where, where will I say, OK, yesterday I said Washington, DC, let me see where else? OK. So if you're a diplomat and you become the ambassador for Nigeria to Afghanistan, you know, don't say Afghanistan, God forbid, you know, I'm sure that your quarters are going to be secure.

And the good thing about the posting is I'm sure you're going to be paid in dollars anyway. So you're probably going to be earning a lot more than your counterparts back home. And, you know, people who are the similar salary grade in other, in other parts of the civil service. So if they appoint you to be ambassador of Afghanistan, I know Afghanistan is not as cool as Washington DC, but still go to church, declare his goodness,

you know, accept your congratulations, you know, go forth and explore the career because you're definitely going to be earning more than somebody who is in Ministry of Health or or NTA, you know, on the same, on the same, what's it called level. OK, yes. So also one moment I need to attend to something here. OK, sorry about that. I am back. I had to attend to my wife quickly and that's because we're currently trying to move house.

If you've been listening for the last week, you already know the while that we're going through, you know, dealing with agencies, man, there's something else. And then agents in Abuja have become mad as in everywhere you go, people are asking you for inspection or fee. Inspection or fee. I mean, 20 K's if you're an apartment. I'm like, are you guys crazy? Because I mean, understand that the country is hard, but I mean,

let's face it, before you move house, you look at like, you know, 5 or 6 places maybe. So you just like that. You just pay 100 grand in inspection fees. And you know, you real estate people and then lawyers, I know you guys think you're a valuable part of the, of the value chain. But looking at it from a customer's point of view, you know, as far as we're concerned, like you guys are doing absolutely nothing. The houses are dirty, you know,

they haven't been cleaned up. I mean nothing. So like, what exactly are we paying for? You know, you say oh, transportation, you know, whatever, but you know, it's my car. Know who came I picked you up and who've been driving around and supposed to be paying you 20 K for what? So anyway, agency, wahala, you know, blah blah blah. And apparently people are afraid of Yahoo, Yahoo boys now. So, you know, you don't have to fill a form so that the landlord can have a look and vet who you are.

And it's just interesting to see how things have changed in the last eight years because I think the last time I moved house was about maybe 8-9 years ago. So I didn't know that things have become this, what's the word, stressful or whatever. So yeah, yeah, was supposed to fill the form and wifey just came to give me the form. So I'm going to fill it off now and then send it to the landlord so that they can vet and be sure that we are decent people.

But apparently people don't like renting houses to Ebo people in Abuja because everywhere I go, that's the first thing they ask me, are you Ebo? I'm like, wow. And this is harsh. And then also people are afraid of Yahoo, Yahoo boys because the next thing they ask me is what do you do? What is your job? And interesting times that we live in. I'm sure if it was in the UK or America, some, you know, asking people these sorts of questions would be what's the word?

I don't know. I don't know if I should say unconstitutional. I'll be, I'll be, is it illegal? But anyway, it's an interesting house moving process. So if you have to move house anytime soon and you're based in Abuja, just beware that these are some of the things that lie ahead for you. So if you're an able guy living in Abuja and you do your work online, any good luck, Good luck trying to convince people that you're not a Yahoo Yahoo boy.

So anyway, fantastic sign of the times that we live in right now. Okay, sorry, where was I? And so I was talking about how let's say you have been, you've been elevated at hand to the rank of ambassador now and you've been posted to Afghanistan. So Afghanistan is as juicy as Washington DC. But don't you're still earning in dollars and you're still going to be earning much more money than, you know, people like my father who worked in NTA

and NOA and then other people who are working in maybe Ministry of Health or something like that, even though all of you are on level 14 or level 16 or level whatever. So to be good at your job when you arrive in Afghanistan, you're going to need to learn how to focus on the other person that you are speaking to. So as a diplomat, you're not going to have a customer, but they're going to be people that you're talking to, other stakeholders in the country,

other people in the diplomatic service over there in Afghanistan. And you're going to always have to be focused on the person that you're talking to. Because if you show up to the honourable minister or something, something, something in Afghanistan, you show up in his office and while the guy is talking to you, you know, the guy can see clearly that, you know, you're lost in the days or maybe you're sleepy or something.

That is not going to be a fruitful conversation. So it's also the same thing in business, active listening involves showing that you are being focused on the person that is right in front of you, in this case our customers. So we have to be present at all times. Now, as of the date of this recording in 2025, there's a particular warning that I want to give to all of you, especially those of you who are on the younger end of the spectrum.

So those of you who are 3020 below, for those of us who are 4050 and above, this is not so much of a problem. But for those of you who are young, please just take it. You will not agree, but just take it like this. Mobile phones, keep them away, put them on silent, maybe even switch them off. OK, just put it on silent and then put it in your bag or put it in your pocket. But sure, keep it away, keep it out of sight. Because if your phone is there and you're talking to the customer and somebody pings you,

even if you pick up the phone and look to say, OK, let me see who is pinging? Is he wifey? Is he boyfriend? Is he bouncy? Is it pastor? Is it a mom even if you just do it 5 or 6 times during a 30 minute meeting, you are passing across messages to the other person that look, I don't rate you, some of you won't agree, but just just take it. Take it on my advice please, listening about phones, put it on silent. Put it in your bag, put it away.

Don't leave it on the table while you're talking to the person. In fact, in the West, in America and in the UK, they now have statistics that show that even the presence of the mobile device, as in you didn't touch it, but it is there within arm of reach even that is beginning to give the impression that you are not listening, you're not here 100%, you don't rate the other person. So please, for those of us who are 40, you know, 353025, please just keep the phone away and put it on silent.

Don't touch it, don't fiddle, don't you know, whatever. Sure, for some professions you might have to stop and check something. And, you know, in that case it won't be a problem because I've been with the doctor and we've been having conversations and the guy was like, what? Look, you know what, I think it might be this, it might be this, but let me just confer with my colleague in National Hospital. 1 moment, please. Let me make a brief phone call.

Then he reached down into his desk and pulled out the phone and then made a phone call. You see that? That's a different thing. In that case, him touching the phone is showing that he is paying attention to me because he's trying to confer with another specialist before giving a diagnosis and then giving me treatment. So yes, there'll be times when you have to touch the phone, but as a general rule, we're focusing on the customer, we're focusing on the other person mobile phones.

Please just leave it now. Maybe it's also a generational thing. So maybe if you are 17 and you're trying to do business with somebody else who is 20, I don't know, maybe the dynamics are difference with that age group. So you guys can both be talking and being on your phones at the same time and you know that you respect each other, you rate each other. So maybe. But it doesn't work across all generations. So mobile phone, be careful.

Then show that you are interested. One way they show you're interested is in eye contact and body language. But please let me give you a warning because some of us only read western books. When we talk about eye contact and body language, let us remember that there is a cultural context to it and that there are cultural assumptions that go into it. Because if you read only western books, western books say maintain firm eye contact, look the person straight in the eye.

So yes, for Canada, for America, for the UK, that is a way of showing respect. Like Sir, I am here, I am with you, mommy, I am here, I am with you, I am listening. In some cultures, direct, sustained long term eye contacts is if I have some cases, it might be an affront. You might leave. And then the people who say, huh, see that, see that small girl, see that small boy, she has the guy bold, you know, it might be an affront.

So please, when we're reading Western business books and stuff like that, remember that this thing is this cultural context and their cultural assumptions, they're going to play. So eye contact, yes, maintain eye contact, but please, you know, it's culturally dependent body language also culturally dependent. The example that I give on the podcast, and I'm going to stress here again, is I'm teve from binary state in my own place.

If you want to have a one-on-one conversation, like the person wants to join you straight, the person wants to level with you, you actually will sit side to side in the West is different. You will sit across each other, but in my own part of the world, when the conversation is getting serious, you know, especially if he's an elder person, the other person will get sure for you to come and sit side to side. And by the way, when you're sitting side to side, have you noticed you cannot be maintaining direct eye contact?

So that's why I'm saying these things are culturally dependent. So in the West, if you're sitting opposite each other, direct eye contact very good. You're paying attention. But depending on where you're from, if you are from some middle belt cultures, you know two people, you know plateau people and the conversation is getting serious. You know the older person or the senator or the chairman would get sure to you they should come and sit right here next to him.

And you guys are now talking. And in that case, I'm interested. Body language is more of you're sitting side to side and maybe you guys are leaning close to each other. So there are some cultures where there's no eye contact, but you guys are sitting side to side leading into each other. And hey, it means you guys are building rapport. There are some cultures where sitting opposite each other might be adversarial, as in you guys are are strangers.

So please, when reading these books, bear in mind cultural context, cultural assumptions. It's the same thing with the handshake. The first time I met a Nigerian who had been born and bred in Canada, it was a rude shock to me because the fellow was younger and who was meeting me, who was meeting Mumsy and was meeting another gentleman who at the time was close to 70 years old. Now this Nigerian guy born in Canada walks in and proceeds to stretch out his hand and shake all of us, introduce himself and say nice to meet you.

For me, it was a very jarring experience, very because you know, those who was born here in Niger, you know, we understand now that in the presence of the elder, you don't just go and then stretch your hand and you know, is the elder, you go and of course you greet, you know, good afternoon, Sir. You know, good morning, Sir. You know, whatever. But if there's going to be a handshake, I'm assuming in most cultures, I think for even for,

I think even for Yoruba people, I think it is the older man or the older woman who will extend their hand first. You will now accept the handshake. So was jarring for me and I had to keep reminding myself like, OK, this guy doesn't know he's he's from Canada. He's from Canada. You know, after we're done, I want to talk to him. I'll talk to him. Now. Look, hey, dude, you know where you're coming from. That's cool. But in this part of the world,

it's it's a bit too forward and might be disrespectful. But yes, if you're in Canada, that is the proper thing to do. You walk in and you say, oh, good morning, Sir, my name is James. Nice to meet you. Delighted. So and then you stretch out your hand in Canada. That's good. Nigeria, maybe not. But read the room. It depends. It depends on the context. So let me see what else? OK, let me move on because I've spent much time on that then.

OK, show interest. Let's see what else I have. Clarifying questions. That's also part of active listening. You should be asking questions to know what's up. Oh, sorry, Sir. Sorry, Ma. Oh, Bros. When you said that, did you mean this or did you mean that? Sorry, I didn't understand this part. I didn't understand that part. It's OK. Clarifying questions. And I think that's the example that I gave yesterday in the intro when I was talking about how women do this very well when they're having conversations,

you know, especially on personal matters. The woman says something. I say, are you serious? He said what? That's an invitation for the other woman to talk some more or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He did this. Who does that? No, you don't mean it. You know, and all these sorts of things. These are ways of inviting the person to clarify, to probe more, to explore. So you know that. But those are, you know, more like personal dynamics.

But we can do the same thing in business. Well, in business, we just have to be much more direct about it. So I do things. I just refer back to another conversation. I would say, hey, bro, sorry when you said this is this is sorry you lost me there. I'm I'm not sure what you meant by that. You know, did you mean this or did you mean that? So that's how I go about it. But pick the way that works for you. Either way. Active listening, part of active listening is using clarifying questions when you're asking questions to clarify.

The old boss, when you said this, what did you mean? Madam, when you said this, what did you mean? Boss or Madam will understand that. OK, this guy is here with me. This guy is following, this guy is tracking. This guy is paying attention. Then summarize and feedback is also part of active listening. I do this a lot before we move on, you know it. I would just summarize that as OK, OK, bro, if I understand you so far, So what you've been saying is 123 and 456.

I'll be did I? Did I get it correctly? It is good to do that because if you have missed the point, that's the point where the boss would say no, no, no, no, no, I did not say that too. I did not say ABC 456. I said ABC and 123. The reason why it's good to do summarize and feedback is by the time the guy says that, you now know that OK, I misunderstood him. Now I know the correct position. I misunderstood her. The importance of this is if you make a mistake at this stage,

the early stage where you guys are trying to talk business, the mistakes that you make now compound in the future. So make sure they get everything correct. So active listening, summarize our feedback. I do that a lot. I'll always summarize and say, OK, if I get you correctly, this is what you're saying or this is what you're trying to achieve. Are we, are we together? I'm on point. Did I understand you correctly? The person will say Oh yes, or the person will say no.

That's the feedback part. Then interruptions, when it comes to active listening, keep interruptions to a minimum. But of course, you've seen that if you're trying to interrupt somebody because you're trying to get feedback, then you can see there's not a bad thing. Or if you're interrupting somebody because you're trying to get a clarifying question, it might not be a bad thing. So, but generally keep interruptions to a minimum.

Then let's see what else? What else, What else? Writing. I advise people if it's a business thing, please have a pen and paper and write because in the early days of doing business, it's not a problem. You're only speaking to maybe one person a week. It's not hard. You will remember everything you said. But by the time business starts to pick up and you start talking to two 3-4 people every day, you will forget. You have a meeting with somebody at 9, You have another meeting with somebody at 12, you have another meeting with somebody at 3.

By the time you get home at six, you know, be remembering who is the person that said this or who is the person that said that or what did Ogachukudi say or what did Madame Lolade say. You know, you'll forget. So for me, I recommend to people just have a pen and paper and write. It's also part of active listening. In fact, I tell, I recommend that you just tell a person from the beginning, I hope you don't mind on the make some notes just so I don't forget anything that is also a signal to the other person.

OK, this young man, this young girl is listening. This young man, this young girl, we're vibing. They're following me, they're interested, they rate me, they're paying attention to me. So I recommend writing. Now, if you don't agree with writing, I'm not going to force you. But you do have to keep some sort of records after this meeting with Auger Bayou or with Madam Cindy. As you jump inside your car, bring out your pen and paper and write down the things that you guys discussed.

Write it or put it in your CRM or put it in your Google Calendar or put it in your Google Notes. Put it in your Evernote, put it in your Trello. Put it somewhere because you are going to have future conversations with Orga Conley and future conversations with Madam Cindy. Madam Cindy will not feel like you are listening or paying attention or that you rate her. If she said something on meeting day one and then on meeting day 6, she's having to repeat herself all all over again.

She'll feel as if you're dull, you're daft, you're not paying attention, or you don't rate her. So even if you're not going to write anything during that meeting, after the meeting, as soon as you drop in the car or as soon as you get inside the downfall, if you don't have a car and you take down full back to where you back to where you live, bring out your daughter and start writing things down. OK, January 9th meeting, Madam Cindy Venue City Plaza agenda 12345.

You know, just small, sharp, sharp, sharp, sharp, sharp outline like that, small, small outlines that in the future you can open it, you look at it and the whole meeting will just come back to you like that so that the next time you see Madam Cindy, you will are not starting from fresh. It's not as if you are as if she's having to repeat herself again so that you can come across as sharp. You know, intelligent, smart.

Let her nothing, OK, This boy is a dollar or this guy is not listening or this guy is sloppy. That is going to be the wrong way to instill confidence in Madam Cindy. In fact, that's not even stealing confidence. Bottom line will be the wrong way to start of this relationship that look this young man can't remember all these details, how am I supposed to trust him with this project? You know, that sort of thing. So by anyway it's up to you guys.

I recommend just be jotting something down during the meeting. It is part of active listening. Don't worry, it's not being rude, just tell the person. Hope you don't mind if I take some notes. If you're not going to write during that meeting, no problem. As soon as Madam Cindy stands and leaves, remain seated at that table. Make some notes then, or go into your car, make some notes or in the downfall, make some notes.

There are some people who have even gone high tech. I've seen some people do it that the meeting is over. They now pull out their phone. They pull up recorder just like I'm doing now. And then they just speak into the recorder. You know, that's, that's fine as well. Whatever works for you. And the whole point of this writing during the meeting or taking notes afterwards is so that we can have tailored conversations in the future and we can make reference to things that were said earlier.

And so this is part of how we do active listening. 01 more thing, especially for those of you who are tech savvy. Somehow, I don't know about Nigeria because we don't have research on that. But in the West, in America and in the UK, there is research that now shows that if you're taking your notes on a laptop, somehow people feel that you are distracted. I don't understand. Maybe it's because laptops are associated with e-mail,

browsing, watching YouTube or whatever. So you can take your notes on the computer. But the recommendation for business for now is use pen and paper because when you're using the computer, for some reason people feel as if you're still distracted. Maybe it's because, you know, people can multitask on computers. You can be telling the person that, yes, I'm with you, I'm with you and you're typing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And maybe the person is wondering, is it what I'm talking that this guy is typing? I'll be easy sending or I'll be easy on WhatsApp, you know, chatting with his girlfriend, You know, you never know. So take records, pen and paper, fine laptops and tablets. You know, there's still some debate about that, but maybe it's a cultural thing. Maybe Americans and people in the UK feel as if you're distracted if you're on the laptop during the meeting, but maybe Nigerians don't, don't bother.

I don't know. But be careful then observing body language because here it's, it says that we are going to understand our audience by active listening. That's what I've been talking about for the last oh crap, it's 34 minutes. I've been talking about for 34 minutes. And then the second one was observing body language. So I've already spoken a bit about observing body language. So let me just wrap it up here. I remember I said that there's a cultural context and there are assumptions to it.

So don't just take everything hook, line and sink. I'll be is it hook, line and sink? I'll be hook, line and sinker. Sure. Just don't take it as gospel truth because you read it in a business book, especially if it happens to be a Western business book written in America, written in the UK. There are different cultural things to it. So like American business books, for instance, we want both of you to maintain equal stature and sit at the same chair or the same height of chair.

But you know, depending on the culture, if you're in much more northern situations, for instance, it is not unusual for the main guy, for the sugar bar, you know, for the leader, for the Alhaji, for the whatever to sit on the plush high chair while you go and sit on the lower stool or lower chair. You know, because in this part of the world, those things make a difference. You know, he's a sugar, but he wants to feel as if he's the donor.

No problem. You're the one that's chasing money should be what you're looking for is you want your quarter of 50 M. So, you know, go in case I ask collection of 50 M, you know, and then leave. So all these things are culturally conditioned, or should I say culturally determined. So just bear that in mind. So when it comes to posture, you should be looking out for people's posture, and you should also watch your own posture.

Use the posture that signifies interest or that signifies excitement, you know? So yeah, back to that whole sitting across things. Sitting across, Yeah, yes, in the Western context, no problem. But depending on the cultural context, depending on the tribe, you know, if the gist is getting sweet or if you're getting much more in tune, actually, you standing up from side to side and maybe moving closer. So standing up from across and moving over to side to side is a way of signifying interest or excitement or engagement.

So let's see. So posture, that's why you should be watching out for interest or excitement. Then gestures, you're looking for gestures that show openness, other people are being receptive or whether they're being closed. So you know it, it depends. So in Western contexts, if someone is looking and smiling and nodding their head, you know, it's a sign of interest and openness and people are being receptive. But in some cultures in Nigeria,

sometimes if you're talking off point and you're talking OP, they will look at you and they will smile at you and they will be nodding their head. And you might think, Oh yes, yes, we're making progress. But actually, in their minds, I say, OK, go on young man, because you're speaking English. I'll be, and no problem, no problem. You're deceiving yourself. And continue, continue. They're smiling and they're nodding. But actually it could mean something else.

So Please remember, cultural context, cultural backgrounds, cultural assumption. A smile and a nod doesn't always mean we're following. Sometimes, especially in Nigeria, a smile and a nod can mean continue speaking English. You are deceiving yourself. When you're ready, you will do things the right way. So pay attention. Then facial expressions, we should be looking up for facial expressions because that shows emotions, verbal cues.

We should be looking out for tone and pitch, you know, because those things also show whether people are with us or not. And please just remember that in this part of the world, a whole lot of these things are contextual. That is why whenever I talk about these sorts of things, I always say that, look, if you have an inside man or an inside babe, it would help. So if I'm going to Zamphara today, because I'm trying to do a bit of business, you know, the first time I want to do is to hook up with somebody to show me the layer of the land, you know,

or I might go and see Alhaji Kabir, you know, blah, blah, blah. Or do you know him? Where's the address? You know, blah, blah, blah. OK, are you free? And let's even go together. And I will take dressing from my host or from my guide about what to do and what not to do because in the Western climb, it's OK Enter the person's house, keep your shoes on. There are some places where the culture is. Enter the place, take your shoes off.

And here there is also a Japanese thing. Enter take your shoes off. In fact, the host will even provide you the slippers they are supposed to wear inside the house. So you know all these sorts of things. So if you go and you have a local host, you have a local guide or something. And as you get into the house or the office where you're going and the person removes their shoe, please off your shoe. If it is appropriate for you to keep your shoe on, the host will tell you that Oh no, no, no, no,

no problem. It's OK, you can't keep your shoes on. But bottom line, it helps if you have an inside man, an inside woman, a somebody that is guiding you, they can now be reading some of these things because I'm thief. I'm from Berlin State. I was born in Makati, but I spent most of my time in Abuja and then Lagos and then a bit of my time in Scotland. So there are some things I will not understand if I'm trying to sell in some parts of Ocean or some parts of Sokoto or in some parts of Cameroon.

There are some things that I just won't know. I'll have to take dressing, I'll have to take cues. So bear that in mind. There's plenty of contextual stuff. We should be looking out for contextual cues. What is the environment? What is the purpose of the interaction? What are the power dynamics? You know, I thought I also mentioned the whole thing of, you know, anyway, let me know if I stress it before. Some of you say I'm dealing in stereotypes.

So power dynamics and then relative status of the parties, all these things are important. So these are some of the stuff that we should pay pay attention to when it comes to observing body language. So when you read the book by Jim, sorry, is it Jim, whether I write it, Jeremy, Jeremy Hurwitz, Selleck, despite out of persuasion, the chapter on body language, my recommendation is be careful because he's going to be saying lots of stuff from a Western perspective.

So just remember that culture and all these things are important. So there's been 40 minutes, so let me bring this episode to a close. If you'd love to connect, the phone number is 08064662140. The country code is +234. For those of you who are not Nigerian, then connect with me on socials. I'm on LinkedIn as Tavishima Ayedi. That is the name to look for. So thanks for your time and attention. Tomorrow we'll move on to the Power of information and that is chapter 2 in the book.

Jeremy Hurowitz Sell like a spy, The art of persuasion. Remember, this is not a book review. I am just exploring themes covered in the book from a sales and business development perspective. But of course, I'd recommend that if you can look for the book, buy it and read it. And I hope you guys ability to see why I say that principles of selling sales are universal. So just pick whatever it is that you like. Because you've seen that Jeremy Hurowitz is a journalist and he's writing about these things.

Well, you've seen that if you're going to read his book and try and become much more effective at selling, you can see that there's good principles there. So yeah, so whether it's Brian Tracy or Jeremy Hurwitz or whether it's my podcast or whether it's anybody else's podcast, you know, don't worry, just pick what sounds interesting, what picks your fancy, what sounds doable to you, because I'm much more concerned about what you're actually going to do.

So listen and then do go and apply and then we'll see the growth in our businesses. So thanks for your time and attention. I'll catch you guys at the next episode.