The MakNisy Effect: How Every Team Member Drives Success

Hello and welcome to the show. Today I would like to share some of the stuff that I discussed with a team that I did some work with on the 1st of October. Now that was an A public holiday over here at Nigeria Independence Day, celebrating Nigeria's Independence Day. And it was a little bit of a team bonding like work retreat for a client of mine who is in the fashion space. My company makes bags, custom made leather bags.

And so this is part of a session that we shared with our employees of the day. Now this was a full house kind of thing. So it was, I mean everyone, people from design and production, people from quality control, people from customer service, people from client relations. And it was really nice to have the whole family together because apart from discussing how everyone works together, you know, teamwork, how everybody's work affects the business as a whole, which is what I wanted to discuss, which was what I was brought in to discuss.

Rather, I wanted to see how we could use that session as well, sort of like as a family meeting to tease out troublesome things that usually affect front of the front end people. That's customer facing people and then the back end facing people from a sales and business development perspective. Just to tease out these problems in like a family meeting atmosphere so that we can get the business chugging, chugging together as a whole.

Because even though what I was brought in to do was a straightforward, you know, talk about how how everybody's work, how everybody's station affects the business as a whole, I'm still not comfortable. Maybe it's that part of me that is, is much more concerned about results. Because I think if I come in and I just give a speech and then I leave, then I mean, that's easy, you know, show up, collect your money, give a speech and then leave.

But I don't think that's the most effective way to carry on with this business. So I always try to make sure that we make some demonstrable progress. I'm always striving for behaviour change. I want to be sure that by the time I'm done with the session that there are one or two, three or four things that you can point to for this person to do, that person to do immediately after. And that is going to have a demonstrable impact on the business going forward.

So I was, I shared the stage with a, another speaker was a radiologist who was talking about health, yes, health, Occupational Safety, general health, you know, those sorts of things. And yeah, so it was also a good thing for me to be there because I got to learn a bit about human. What's it called? Endocrinology. You know how your, what are they called again, not enzymes, I can't remember these things. What are they called?

There are these specialised chemicals in the body that helps you to trigger stress responses, trigger emotional connections and all kinds of things. So you know the thing responsible for creating cortisol, that's the stress response in your system. That is what makes you nervous and all that. Then adrenaline, which is the fight and flight response. So, you know, when you're quarreling with a client and the client is raising their voice and you're raising your own voice and you feel like slapping the client, you know, that's the adrenaline in you.

Then what else? So just learning about all those different things, how they affect the body, how we can take care of ourselves to make sure that we lower our stress responses, live healthy, eat healthy and all those sorts of things. So if you have the opportunity to attend one of these sessions, please do It's good. It's eye opening. And for those of us who are married, especially for those who are kind of on the bigger end of things, you know, your spouse definitely wants you to be alive for a bit longer.

So attend these things, learn and then put them in practice. And one more thing, something I've said in the past over here on the podcast that I'm going to say again, if you are an employee and you work for this kind of organization, please know that really the organization that you're working for is one in 1000. I'm speaking in the Nigerian context because in the Nigerian context, most business owners don't give a hoot about don't give a hoot about you.

So the owners look at Pedro salary getting produced. This is the these are the KPIs, these are the milestones. These are the these are the things you have to hit. So hit it or leave. But then this business owner called me in and this other speaker for retreat for the whole team. And apart from talking about help and sorry about health and talking about production, this business owner also has registered under what are they called is the HMO and you know,

stuff like that. Basically all this thing about insurance. So these people have health insurance, they can go treat themselves for free on the company's dime. And this business owner also has, let's see what else you can treat yourself for free. You can go for annual check up. What else? I can't remember well any I might might as well just come out and say the business owner's name. So or rather the business name because I noticed that the business is popular at least in Abuja, but the owner doesn't necessarily put herself out front.

So the name of the company is Mac Niecy and they make exquisite leather bags so. Where was I? Now what I was trying to say is this, if you work for a company like Magnesi, just know that it's like one in 1000, maybe even one in a million. Most business owners in Nigeria don't give a hoot about you. So especially a business of this scale, I mean by the time a business becomes. Really big, maybe like Zenith Bank or something.

It is statutory. Required that they have to, you know, do health insurance things for you and then stuff like that. But you don't have a lot of SMEs who are going through the trouble of making sure that people are trained on the job and that people have health insurance and that people do annual checkup and the business bears the cost for all these sorts of things. So if you work for this kind of organization that is calling me in once in a while to handle trainings for you guys, you better take these things seriously and make the most of your time while you are at this company.

Because once you leave this company and you go out to another company, you will find that most Nigerian business owners don't give a hoot. So enjoy while you are where you are, while you are there, especially if the business owner, if it's a small and medium scale business, also goes the extra mile of making sure that your health benefits are on point. You know, whether it's you injure yourself or malaria, you do annual check all these sorts of things.

In fact, the business owner, at the end of the day, she recommended that with all the things that we had spoken about so far, that people should go take advantage of these things, go talk to the doctors and actually go. Have these conversations and test for these sorts of things precisely to make sure that your stress response is not, you know, blowing off the charts and all these sorts of things. So anyway, let's head straight into it.

I've already wasted too much time on the introduction. So OK, like I said, I was brought in to talk about how everybody's work affects the business, and we're looking at things from a sales and business development perspective now. Mark Nisi who produced leather bags and so on, like most businesses because like when I was a wedding photographer, you know, there's me, I outsource the, I used to outsource the back end stuff.

I didn't, I didn't make the books myself, although I know some photographers back in Lagos. Anyway, we used to do that, you know, shoot the wedding, print the stuff, design the book, create the book so that some businesses that do everything in house, I prefer to outsource. Magnisi does everything in house. So design and production of the handbags done in house. So if you visit the store in Woosetu, OK, I can't remember the address but I know it's in,

it's in Woosetuja. If you just check Macnisy on Instagram that is MAKNISY, then you will get all the details of them. That's for you ladies listening to the show and who happened to be in Abuja in Abuja and you're looking for looking for wonderful nice leather bags. So go check them out. So for Magnesia, everything is done in house. So they have design and production teams, then they have a quality control team, then they also have other functions that I just lumped together as customer service and client relations.

So this is not how they break down their org chart, but for the purposes of the talk, that is how I that is how I decided to break it down. Oh, and by the way, they celebrated 13 years this year, 13 years of being in business. And that was part of what the whole thing was about. You know, we've done 13 years. Let's make sure everybody is working together. Realize you're important, realize you're a team. Let's take care of ourself and let's see how we can plan for another 13 years.

So that was the whole point of the company retreat. So for design, production and quality control, basically my spiel to them was this. Oh, OK. Well, before I went into that, I tried to get them to understand one thing. Because those of you who are employees of a company, you guys haven't quite realized this. You guys show up, you take a paycheck, and then you leave. But then you guys don't quite realize that the only way the business is going to grow or the only way your salary is going to increase is if you're able to achieve a couple of things #1

you guys have to be able to get somebody to come into the door and buy. That's the first thing somebody comes in and buys. If people are not coming in and buying, your salary is going to remain flat. In fact, over time you might lose your job. So it is important that from a company wise perspective, everybody, even those of you who work in accounting, you need to understand that if people are not coming in and buying, your salary will mean stagnant and your salary might disappear over time because there's no how the business owner is going to keep on funding the business from their savings or from their investments or whatever.

So number one is everybody's responsibility, especially when you're an SME, to make sure that number one, people come in through the door #2 we also want to make sure that people come back to buy again. If somebody buys a bag in January, but then the person never comes back, and that's a problem. We want to make sure that somebody comes and buys a bag in January. Maybe the person comes again in November or December and hopefully next year, March,

maybe the person will come and bring a best friend, a family member and associate or, you know, whatever. So that's number two. Number one, get somebody through through the door #2 get the person to come back #3 we also want to increase the amount of money that the person spends each time that they come. So if someone comes in January. And they buy a bag for. 60K or 70K, hopefully if the person comes back in November, they buy the same hopefully by next year.

But want to see how we can increase the average order value because if people are buying bags from us, buying it repeatedly and increasing the amount. So let's say in 2023, on average they were spending maybe 60 KA bag, excuse me? And then maybe by 2025 or 2027, they're now spending 120 KA bag. I mean, you can now see how our salaries start going up. It's because we've done a good job of getting a client, getting the client to come back and then increasing the amount of money that the client spends over time.

Then the third level that we can pull is for them to come, OK, I've already mentioned that. Come with their friends, their family members and associates. So that was something that I was keen on pressing to the young boys and girls over there because it was a young workforce to realize that everybody's important. And the reason why everybody's important is because everybody's work within the organization effects these dynamics.

The way that you guys behave yourself in design and production or in quality control or in customer service and client relations, that is what determines whether somebody comes and buys in the 1st place or whether they come back or whether they increase the amount of money that they spend with you or whether they bring their friends and their family members to come and buy again. So that was the angle that I was looking at this thing during the company retreat, or let me just say the family retreat.

So from a sales and business development perspective, that is the cap that we need to put on. We're trying to make sure that every single thing that we do, whether you're in design or in accounting or customer service or client relations, we're trying to see, can we get people coming to the door? Can we get them to come back? Can we get them to increase the amount of money that they spend? Can we make sure that they remain customers with us for a long length of time?

Because it doesn't profit with you. If you get a customer and the person buys from you only once. The main profit is if the person comes and buys from you and maybe it's a 1015 year relationship. That's where the big money comes in Also because the longer a person spends with you and the more that they spend, the less time and money you have to spend chasing other people to come and buy with you. And this dynamic is the same even if you sell poultry, you sell eggs.

It's not about somebody comes and then buys a batch of 200 chickens one time. The real profit is somebody comes, buys a batch of 200 chickens. Now maybe the person comes back in December, buys another batch of 200 chickens, and then maybe next year they come again, but this time the order is not 200 chickens, but maybe 600, maybe 200 chickens and then 1200 eggs or something. Then if you also maintain a relationship with this person that last two decades, then that is where the money is because this is steady, repeatable,

bankable income that you can plan on. You know that, Madam. So, so, so or chief, so, so, so the person comes every two months, every three months. This is how much they spend. This is where business growth occurs. So that's the first thing I try to get the team to understand that we've done good the 1st 13 years. The next 13 years is only going to rock and salaries are going to increase, benefits are going to increase.

Only if we get people in, we get them to come back. They come back for a long time, they increase the average spend each time and then they bring their friends, Marbley and the friends, family members and associates. So for the design and the production and quality control people, this was the scope. I was giving them that look. This thing is handbag. Visual appeal is the main thing, visual appeal and then also integrity in the manufacturing process.

Because if the thing looks good but anything falls apart later, forget it. People are not going to come. Back and buy. And then I also told the team that there's this thing that is universal. Some people think it's a Nigerian thing, but it's not. It is universal. I've seen it in the UK. Well anyway, let me just leave it at that. The only place apart from Nigeria that I've lived and worked in is in the UK. But this thing is universal.

So I'm sure it's the same in Saudi Arabia or Australia or in the North Pole. If you do a correct job, if you do a bang up job, people will be happy. But The thing is they don't tell too many people. So someone is happy, they tell one or two people, but the day you mess up they would tell a shit load of people, excuse my French. So it's a very funny dynamic. It's worse in some places than the others. Like in the UK it's pretty bad.

I think with the stats that came out in the UK is that, you know, for one good experience you tell 2, but therefore bad experience you tell 11 or something like that. I can't remember the stats, but the UK is really, really bad. So I don't know if Nigeria is that bad. Of course, you know, we don't have statistics on anything in this country, but it's a universal dynamic. So if you do a good job, yeah, you tell one or two, two people.

But if you do a bad job, you tell a whole host of people. And the fact I remember seeing this thing in effect once where we went somewhere to eat. I can't remember where the place was, but it wasn't a good experience. And my wife is a member of this group, you know, having our work friends. I have a filthy Friday group. You know, back when the going was good, they used to go out and flex every Friday. But you know, now with how the economy is, you know, Filthy Friday is not necessarily an every Friday thing.

So they were talking about going to this place and my wife was like, no, that the place is rubbish. Is this is this is that, that, that, that, that, that, that. And I was just watching, listening and then watching. I was like, oh, OK, so this is his dynamic in effect. We go, we have a terrible experience. And then she's now talking on the Filthy Friday group and there are a bunch of people here, you know, maybe like on that 20, I said, OK, so this is how this thing, this is how bad news spreads.

And then we went to somebody else's house. We're just chilling. She was thinking about how she wants to take her children here. And my wife is like, no, no, no, no, don't do this, Don't do this. It was this, it was this, it was that. And in my head I'm making a note like, oh, OK, so this is how it actually works. So it's not a matter of malice. It's just that you go somewhere, you spend your hard earned money, you expect to have a good time.

And so if your friend is going to that place and is also going to spend some cheddar there, you don't want her to waste her time. So you tell her that, look, don't bother. Don't take your children there. I went there with my children. It was rubbish. Try someplace else. So that's the dynamic, that's how it works. So for those of you working in Magneti or working in any form of, in any kind of design capacity, design, production,

quality control, very important because of visual appeal, how does it look? And then integrity in the manufacturing process. If it doesn't look good or feel good, somebody will not buy. If it looks good or it feels good but then the thing breaks down quickly, somebody's not going to come back again. And the problem is. She. Might tell 5 or 6 people, I don't know by the time we have the statistics in Nigeria, I'll let you know that's if we start researching these sorts of things.

But definitely she's not going to keep it to herself. So design, production, quality control, that is the reason why what you do is important. So it's not just for those of you who work in Magneti, this is, you know, whatever business you work in, whether it's shoes you guys design or it's, I don't know, OK, Like those notebooks, Ankara notebooks, you make the notebook and then with Ankara, excuse me, Ankara design on top for leather design or whatever it is.

This is the reason why what it is that you do is important. So with that, I didn't go into user experience principles and customer experience principles for custom goods like leather handbags in their own case because it was a youngish crowd and we had already spent a lot of time, You know, there were two speakers. So I need to make sure that we kept everything under one hour. And then plus, I was trying to instigate some quarrel at the end of the session because there are some things I had discovered about the team, you know, some issues with handoff and things like that, that I thought was really important for this thing to be said in the open.

So that as a family we would start discussing and saying, OK, look, for this particular problem, we solve it this way. For this one, we solve it that way. We need to put this policy in place. We need to put that policy in place because remember I said, for me, it's not important that I show up, take money and then leave. So there's some people who do that. They just do purely training, show up, take the money and leave.

But I'm much more interested in behaviour change. So I didn't want to talk too much because I need to instigate quarrel at the end. So that some of the things I had discovered this person is quarreling with this person. I wanted the person to come and say it out. Well, two people in particular who had some issues. And I'm glad that I was able to ferment the quarrel and the thing was said in in public and were able to come up with, well,

not come up with because. Apparently. Magneti already has those policies in place and standard operating procedures and things like that. So we're able to reiterate the company policy about making sure that these problems in communication and hand off don't happen again, so that the customer receives a wonderful user experience or customer experience. However it is that you call it. But the principles that are involved in user experience and customer experience for custom goods.

For those of you who make custom handbags. In case any member of Magnusi staff is listening to this episode, First off, there's a thing of you need to understand your customer needs, understand their needs, understand their preferences, understand their pain points. Then because that informs how it is that we make bags, how we design bags, you know, things like that. So if because I noticed that Magnusi bags, some of them, the ones that I've seen have like these chain like chain, what's it called?

Sorry, I don't know much about bags, but OK for handbags, ladies handbags, there's a way that you have a small should I call it a handle or something? That's one of them that have the golden chain handles. So if you happen to be in a part of the world, like I don't know, let me guess. OK, let me say Bangladesh, OK, Because in Bangladesh they have monsoon scenes and it rains a lot. So this is my guess. I do not know about these sorts of things.

So this is me guessing. So please nobody take me to task on this. So in a place like Bangladesh for instance, where there's high moisture content, maybe there's lots of sweating and then things like that, maybe it might not make sense to have 100% leather or 100% chain as they handle because maybe the women that are carrying it will sweat and then the gold will corrode and maybe the leather will start to break down. So it is by understanding your customers needs, their preferences and their pin points that will now affect the kind of bags that you sell.

So that things that you do on your handbags in Nigeria and it's OK. Perhaps if you enter into the Ghana market or the Bangladesh market or the Morocco market, you might have to do things different. So. These are sorts of things that we. Should be paying attention to. So this, These are ways of involving customers in the design process by getting feedback from people, asking them questions, call people up. Yes, surveys.

I know Nigerians would like to send surveys because it's easy. Any small thing, you just send an e-mail. But I really prefer pick up the phone, go to somebody's office, see the person face to face, be on a WhatsApp call. I think that's the best way to get feedback. Then let's see what else. OK, attention to detail. We need to make sure that attention to craftsmanship is on point, finishing is on point, durability on point.

It's only when we sort these things out that people will buy the first time that people will come back again and bring their friends and family members and associates. And then another thing I pointed out to the design, production and quality to control people is that sales is hard. So those people who have the job of actually standing in front of a woman and trying to get her to park with her hard end money, it's hard to do if deep down you know that the bags are crap.

And in this case, it's not crap. The bags are real high quality. I don't know that because I'm a specialist in these sorts of things, but I know it because when I'm in the store, I see the kind of reactions that people have. I mean, I gave an example on the podcast about how last year while I was there discussing with the owner of Magneti for a training program. Well, that one didn't, that one didn't pull through how somebody came in and the person compared it to a one of these fancy Italian bags.

I can't remember what was called. And the last time I was in the store talking to the store manager because I was trying to get a sense of, you know, how they flow with customers, when are there any problems with the team, things like that. And somebody came in with two friends and they were negotiating about picking up a couple of bags. There was a deal going on. They're trying to take advantage of the deal. And these people were pricing 11

bags or 12 bags or something. And in my head, I did the math, OK, one bag is worth this. And I'm like, ha, now, wow. So people actually spend, you know, 1M above like on bags like hours trip from the things that they were saying that look, I have this bag, this bag is this, this bag is that, but your own. The stitching is this, this is that. And so that's how I get, I get a sense of the quality of the magnesium bags, not because see,

to be honest, I know nothing about leather. So if you bring leather that is made from chicken legs or leather that is made from pig bum bum or leather that is made from cow skin, you know, I don't know the difference. So it's just whenever I'm in the store, because before I come up with any training program, it has to be tailor made. We have to sit down, we have to talk. So while I'm in the store, I see the way people are interacting,

the kind of things people are saying. And then that's how I know that Magneti bags are good quality. So I told the design and production people that look, if something is crap and me as a salesperson, I know that this thing is crap, it will be hard for me to sell it. That's just human nature. It is only fraudsters that can sell crap. So design production, quality control people. Your job is really important if you work for a business and that is your job, designing a bag,

designing a car, designing a Biro, designing a computer, designing a bathroom, slippers, designing a whatever, what you do is important. Design people, production people, quality control, because if you mess up, nobody will buy, they won't come back, there'll be no relationship, they won't increase the amount of money that they spend. Then for the customer facing people, customer service and the client relations people, the main thing we have to pay attention to is we need to be sure people are happy with the product and the quality of service.

That is what gives us repeat business and referrals. If people are happy and we tease it out that they're happy, that is how we can get them to come back again and ask for referrals. So we also spoke a bit about running a customer service process, especially when things are going bad, because to be honest, when things are going good, you know that one is not hard. Anybody who is nice and cheerful can handle things when things are going good.

But when somebody calls up to say, look, I will not take this thing from you. I paid you people three weeks ago, where is my delivery? Why is this thing late? The pictures look like rubbish. The of the 5000 eggs that you sent me, 120 of them were rotten. You know, all these sorts of things. Then people call and they're angry and they're threatening police and they're threatening EFCC. That's for those of us who have been threatened before, because I have been a threatened fellow said who will call police?

And at the time, look, guy, calm down. I studied law. How much do you pay the lawyer? How much do you pay the police? How much did you even pay me for wedding photography? Just calm down. Let's solve this thing out like men. So what's up? What's the problem? And then we're able to handle the conversation. So yeah, when somebody calls and everybody's angry and then they're shouting and name calling and everything, we need to know how to handle the customer service process when things go bad because then you're angry, you're not thinking straight.

And some of you have been thinking, what the hell over how much if I just slap you and give you your money back like you're an idiot, get out of my shop. That kind of thing. So luckily Magnesia has done a good job. So the staff has already been trained, so they already knew. I asked them and they said it like it was the first of all, acknowledge empathy. Listen, so they've got that part locked down. The only thing I had to tweak was the factory manager said that they should admit when they are wrong.

And you know when he said that, I noticed a couple of people squirming because let's face it, people don't like to admit when they're wrong. So the tweak that I put on it was this. You don't have to tell the customer like, oh Madam, I'm sorry I was wrong. But I told them what we have to do is to take responsibility for solving the problem. Taking responsibility for solving the problem does not mean you are wrong. So the person calls and Rakes.

I paid last week. I expected the bag to be here by Monday. This is Tuesday morning. My bag is not here. So in that case, I told him that is what you do. I let the person vent. And then you now take responsibility for solving the problem. So, Oh, Madam, my name is Chair Maka. I'm terribly sorry that you've had this experience with Magnesie. This is not how we like to do business. I take full responsibility for making sure that we're going to solve this problem.

So I need to ask you a couple of questions to try and figure out what's going wrong. If I can't solve this problem, I'm going to escalate it to my line manager, to my OGA, to my whatever. But I take responsibility for making sure we solve this thing. Is that OK? So that is the approach. So when handling customer service issues, you don't have to say it's my fault. Now you don't have to use that kind of language but it will be very nice especially in the Nigerian context to say I take full responsibility for solving this problem and I'll do my best to make sure that we solve it.

The reason why is because in Nigeria, nobody takes responsibility for nothing. So the moment you say that, you've already set yourself apart from the competition because it doesn't matter what business you do, whether it's catfish leather, handbags or I don't know you're tailor or whatever. No Nigerian business person says I take responsibility for solving the problem and I'm going to continue on to make sure that this thing is solved.

So say I take responsibility, it doesn't mean you're wrong. It doesn't mean you're taking responsibility because sometimes the problem actually comes from the client. The client says they're going to pay on Monday. They should have paid Monday or they forgot, or maybe they actually paid Friday, but in their mind, they paid Monday and so they call and they're raking because they think they paid 5 days ago but actually was just yesterday that they paid.

You know, these things happen, but you're not going to get anywhere by making the customer look like an idiot. So allow them to vent, calm down and take responsibility and take responsibility to make sure that we solve this problem. And he'll ask you a bunch of questions if I'm asking questions like that. OK, When did you pay? What is the order number that the thing will now come under? Oh, OK, sorry, man. Actually, yes, you did have that conversation with us on Monday.

But actually the payment only came in on Friday, you know, blah, blah, blah. She has spoken. Things are now a little bit calmer. You know, you can tie things over a lot easier that way. So you don't have to say I'm I was at fault, but take responsibility to solve the problem. Then like I've mentioned, you also asked for permission because you can't solve the problem until you know what the whole thing is. So in this case, for someone like Magnisi, they're doing.

Dozens of bags a week, you know, hundreds of bags in a month. Sorry, Excuse me. Sorry. Yeah, I'm recovering from my throat stuff, but still not 100% gone. OK, what was I? So you won't have to ask a bunch of questions. Order number, proof of payment. Who did you talk to at the front desk? What day was this? Was there any problem with the bag? You know you need to ask all the questions because it's when you get all the information that you now know how to solve the problem.

What solutions to proffer or whether to escalate it to Auger or Madam MD, Then let's see what else. And that was just a pretty much what I wanted them to understand when they came to that. And then we also discussed, OK, we did not discuss how to get repeat business and referrals. No, we didn't discuss that. But for those of you listening now, basically you need to make sure that people are happy. If they're happy, they need to ask for the referral.

So who else do you know that XYZ? So it depends on the customer. So if the person came to come and buy, in this case, let's say Magnisi, let's say it's a wedding and they're doing Usher IB, they're all dressing together. Also, in one moment, I have to attend to someone at the door. I'll be right back. OK, Sorry about that. Yeah, someone was at the door, so I had to attend to that then. OK, so repeat business and referrals.

So like I said, how you ask for the referral, it depends according to the context. So the example that I was going to give now is if some girls came in or some ladies rather sorry, forgive me if I accidentally say, you know, lady girls, you know, I'm not trying to demean the status of women, so please don't take offense. So some ladies come into the store, let's say it's a wedding and they're going to do what you call these things, clutch,

clutch bag as part of the asurabi, part of the common dressing, part of the style for the day. And let's say they come in and they order 15. Let's say it's a big Brattle train 1520. After the wedding, call up, everybody's happy, the bags are OK, no problems, nothing damaged. So in this case, it will be who else do you know that XYZ? So who else do you know that is on the Brattle train or is looking for OK, How will I phrase it now?

When you get the scope of what I'm trying to say, it will be who else do you know that also needs handbags for a bridal train or something? In this particular case, that would kind of be the question. And you'd be asking for emails or phone. OK, no, Well, some people ask for e-mail, but to be honest, for Misha, I still prefer phone number. If you can get your phone number, like that's the main thing, especially if it's the person's WhatsApp number so that you call, they don't answer.

You can send a WhatsApp message, but whatever organization you work for, figure out their preferred channels. So you might work for a business who for them maybe for referrals what they want is a e-mail. So just figure out what the preferred channel is. But First off, call the person after you be sure everything is cool, there's no problem. Then the formula, the basic formula, the simplest formula, excuse me because there are other ways of asking for referrals, but asking for referral one O 1 is who else do you know that XYZ?

It's that simple. So if you sell birthday cakes and somebody bought for birthday cake, asking for the referral is not who else do you know that need cake that is too broad. You make a little bit more more particular, Who else do you know or which else of your colleagues is celebrating a birthday this month that we need a birthday cake? I mean, the more particular that you can make it, the better. In fact, for some industries where you can do some research ahead of time and you notice particular people to ask in departments, you can even, and you notice that maybe on LinkedIn, you notice, OK, let's say what you do is you sell,

there's some sort of consultant and you do trainings or something like in my own case. And you notice that this person is in the same WhatsApp, sorry, professional group as another person in HR or something. You can go straight up and ask her. Oh, OK, I notice that you are connected with, excuse me, that you're connected with Kelechi. Who handles HR for Zenith Bank? Can you give me Kelechi's number? I would like to talk to her about XYZ.

So excuse me. So in this case, you can see that asking for the referral is, let's just say the more particular you can ask the referral, the better. So if you're a trainer, don't go and say, who else do you know that needs corporate training? It's too broad. The more narrower you can make it, the better. And so that's the reason why in this case, you will be, are you happy? There's no problem. The bag is not damaged. So who else do you know that XYZ

has a basic formula? But of course, we can do podcast episodes where we discuss these things in more details. Well, anyway, this is 35 minutes, so let me just bring this thing to a close. So these are the sorts of issues that we handled during the family meeting. And I just wanted people to realize that because some people think me, I work in the factory was my own is the people who walk in the shop. That's the main thing.

It's all connected. You mess up in the factory, people in the shop have an issue. If you mess up in the shop, people at the factory have an issue. If you go and collect an order for what people in the factory cannot produce, it's a problem. So everybody's role is important. And these are the things that we do to move the business forward. And remember, if any of you does magnesium employees, any of you listening to this episode, this is how we grow the company for another 13 years.

And to make sure that our health benefits go up, to make sure that our commissions go up, make sure that our salaries go up, because you see how the economy is, you know, any small thing, the price of fuel just just going up. Now in Abuja, where buying fuel for 1001 spoke to Mumsy in Makudi, they're already buying it for 1002 three. That means in Boko, that's Popsy's hometown, they're already buying it for like 1/5. And I'm sure in the village,

that's The funny thing about all these things in the villa, they're probably buying it like 1-7. Isn't it funny how you know these things happen and it's really the poor people that suffer? So people in Lagos buying fuel, 1000, in Abuja buying it, 11, you enter Makudi is 1/2, You enter into the provincial towns, you know, it's like 1/5. I mean, the farther you get away, I mean the people up north, the real poor communities up north, I, if I don't even know how they're surviving anyway, where was I anyway?

So that's how we make sure that our commissions go up, our salaries go up and things like that. Everybody is important in the business. We need to make sure that we do our thing so that people come in and buy. It's not just that they buy today, let them come and buy tomorrow, next tomorrow, next month. It's not just that they buy next month as they're coming and they're buying, let the amount that they're buying increase as they're buying, as the amount that they're spending increases,

let them be bringing more people. All these dynamics tied together, we end up having a real profitable business. So my style is really interactive. So I was, I wasn't given a presentation. There was no PowerPoint, there was no nothing. So I was going into the crowd and asking people questions. If I had made a game of it, I was trying to discover who else was from Ben Ray State because I was going based on. You know, the usual.

Characteristics, you know, those words from Ben Ray state was supposed to be, you know, stocky, big attractive, of course, so, you know, told I can some that sort of thing and I was totally off. I didn't get a single person from Ben Ray state and then I even tried picking out some people from the eastern part of the country and I was also totally off. I called one lady who was slim and light skinned with a pointed nose.

So I just assumed this girl is definitely IBO. So I guessed that number of state and I was wrong tells her that she's from Plateau state. She's even B wrong and I was shocked like you had the lightest, like all the B wrong people I know are, you know, like people. Yeah, we might be on the big side, but we're dark and we're you know, we full ground as in we occupy space. Let me put it that way. So anyway, it was an interesting fun experience.

So now I know that you shouldn't judge a book by its cover. Don't assume that every single tall, slim, yellow pointed nosed lady is light skinned lady is from the eastern part of the country. So yes, I was going in pulling people out, engaging them in conversation and that is how I was able to tease out the quarrel in the different departments. So during what would have been the customer, the question and answer sessions, we're able to tease out a couple of things.

We're able to tease out one problem about how customer expectations affect workflows. So we're able to reiterate. The policy for Magneti that you know, before you collect an order, you need to talk to people at the back of the house. Do you have this leather, This leather? Do you have this chain? Do you have this, this, Do you have this that? What is production time? What should I tell the customer? Because if you work in businesses like this where things are bifurcated, you know,

there's front end, there's shop, and then there's back end, there's production. If you're collecting orders from people and saying, Oh, no problem, we can have your order ready in two weeks, but then people in the factory, it will actually take them four weeks. It creates a serious problem because you're better off telling somebody that, oh Madam, your bag will be ready in four weeks. And then in two weeks you call up and say, oh Madam, we finished ahead of time.

When can we deliver? Should we send it to the house or should we send it to the office? That creates a very pleasant user experience or customer experience. And so it's better to do that than to tell somebody who'll be ready in two weeks and then you call the person 2 weeks. And four days later. So over promise, Abby, how do you say it? Is it over promise on under deliver? Yeah, I think that's it, Over promise. And then on the deliver.

So we had those conversations about customer expectations. So, you know, people in the front end of the house, this is how you set expectations. This is the policy for making sure you react to to the factory. Customers are not to be told anything shorter than 20. Was it 21 working days? I can't remember what it was, but I think it was a very good time because that's what I used to do back as a wedding photographer. I just told everybody that your stuff was going to be ready in three weeks.

But to be honest, if everything worked real nice, we could be done in a week. But still, I just told people three weeks because I prefer that. I tell them three weeks. We finish in five days. But then before I send it, I noticed that there's a problem. It goes back for the people to take the book apart and then make the whole thing again, and then they finish in two weeks. I called the person up and said, oh, he's ready.

In their minds do think, wow, this person finished the week ahead of time. This guy's really professional. So that's how it works. So we had all those conversations. We had all those queries about who is supposed to call who when, how are you supposed to call? How many times are you supposed to call? What kind of messages are you supposed to receive? What should we tell customers? In the meantime? Then I was also able to instigate more queries about internal communications because I noticed that there were two people in particular that I

spoke to one person. The person said, this person doesn't answer his phone. I spoke to the other person and this person said, oh, that that Lady, she doesn't even call when there's a problem. I was like, oh, OK, there's a problem here, but I wanted it to come out in the open. So that came out in the open and there was some hand pointing and as a family were able to quell the whole issue that OK, this is what the internal, this is what the standard operating procedure is.

This is what the internal policies are. This is how we should follow this and things like that. And then also another reason why I was trying to instigate quarrel was because I've noticed that when we're having all these family meetings, if we can instigate quarrel and everybody sets their mind in the open, there's a way that as we have said it, we have left it here in the open. And then we can just free this thing and not become friends.

Especially when there's item number seven afterwards, because they had some game schedule and they had some food. So by the time you quarrel like this, you will sit down, you have some good food, you know, you dance. If there's some alcohol, you know, you lubricate and you feel all right. There's a way that you just stand up and everything is good. We've left it on the floor. And then when everybody shows up to the office next week Monday,

you know, everything is cool, people are all right, things are calm, and we can start moving forward. So yeah, all those internal things then letting people know about the Sops then. Let's see what else. OK, I need to speak about something because. In Nigeria, people are afraid of micromanaging. Nobody wants to be a micromanager. So you just train somebody on the job and then you leave. But then I have to emphasize that micromanaging in quote for certain kinds of businesses are actually very essential.

So for these production businesses, micromanaging is not even micromanaging, it's just proper part of the training. But traditionally in these sorts of things, what happens as there's formal education, there's apprenticeship and then there's on the job training. And the example that I gave was a Ferrari and then all these high end automobiles because they also deal with leather. So there's usually formal education. People have gone to school for these sorts of things.

But this is Niger, you know, it doesn't really happen that way. In fact, one of the guys who used to walk on my photo albums actually went to school to study engineering. So it's not, it doesn't work that way, let me just put it that way, But traditionally this formal education, apprenticeship and then on the job training. So the example that I gave was how with Ferrari, it lasts a certain number of years and a certain number of hand stitching applications before they let somebody handle one job.

So I can't remember how many hundred it was. You know, even if it's just 100, imagine that that you start the job with Ferrari, you've done the formal education on stitching and everything, you've gone through your apprenticeship and you've gone through on the job training, but they still will not let you do. Leather. Upholstery until you have done supervised 100, you know, before they let you go free, like, OK, this one can work on the factory floor.

So for some sorts of businesses, micromanaging, even though it's not micromanaging, is absolutely essential. So it's something that I spoke about to the supervisors. So the reason why this is necessary is because in these kinds of businesses, when you make one small error, everything just falls apart. So the way that Magnetia explained it is this, there's a function that she called, is it creasing or something? I think creasing is like folding the bags in a certain way or folding what is the foundation of the bag.

So the way she explained it is if you get decreasing wrong, some edges will not line up. If some edges don't line up, then the formal bag is now going to look wonky. Everything looks wonky, and then there's a space, then there's room for deterioration, and then what else? Like people who handle glue, you don't take care of the glue properly. It gets infected, it gets infected, it gets destroyed. It will cause the bag to corrode.

And you know, so just small, small, small, small things like this. There's a tiny thing that you do that will now totally mess up the final thing. At the end of the day, customers are unhappy. You've ended up wasting a bunch of money, especially for people like Magneti where these kinds of things where all the stuff that they're buying is from abroad. It's a pity. It's just that that's just the state of Nigeria at the moment.

You want to get quality materials, you want to do stuff like this. You just have to buy everything from abroad. So the magnets from abroad, glue from abroad, leather from abroad, this from abroad everything just have to buy from abroad for now. But who knows hopefully in the future with renewed hope in quote, maybe we might improve Nigerian manufacturing capacity and maybe we might be able to start getting some of these things affordably and reliably at home.

But for now, yeah, she has to pay in forex, buy a lot of the components that she needs, good quality stuff from abroad. So where was I? OK. So basically, that's why micromanaging is essential. So you don't just show somebody this is how to crease. And then you say why I go and crease. So you show the person this is how you crease. And then you tell the person why you're in my front, I want you to crease 50. I am watching you, and the person increases 50.

And then, you know, you repeat the process again tomorrow. You come again tomorrow and say, this is how you crease. You crease it and then you say, OK, before I go in my front, I want you to crease yesterday. You crease the 50, I'll be today. You crease 60 or crease 60 in my front. Let me see. Then the person will crease. And it's the same thing with the glue. It looks like it's micromanaging, but you will come. You show the person today.

Now look, this is how you glue today. The only thing you do is you will watch me glue and then tomorrow you will tell the person how, OK, we're going to glue, we're going to glue the bags in 2020 batch, I will batch, I will do the 1st 18. The remaining two you will do by yourself. You do it in my front and I'm watching you. And then you know, like that, like that, like that. So that's how it works. So for these kinds of industries, what people call micromanaging, absolutely essential.

And that's just how it is world over. So if you go to Ferrari or go to Bentley or go to any of these places, that's just how it is. You're not going to enter day one and then somebody will say, oh, I'll go and start doing the leather upholstery. Like no, what qualification do you have? You will do the apprenticeship and you do the the thing hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times before somebody says, Oh yeah, go to the factory floor.

And then now you handle the leather and the upholstery. It doesn't work that way. So I also wanted to set that level of expectation for them, that for those of them who are supervisors, what they do actually is very, very, very important when it comes to the quality control. And so they should not be afraid of micromanaging. So this whole thing of OK, leather stitching, let me see you do leather stitching. It takes a lot of time for you to stand.

And I'm sure it's very boring for you to stand and watch somebody crease 50 times. I know it's really boring, but in certain industries, it is absolutely essential. Stand there, watch the person and, and different stand. Different industries have different standards. So if you're in the handbag space and maybe the standard is that someone should have creased, I don't know, maybe 100 handbags before they start doing it unsupervised.

I mean, it takes time, but stay there. Your supervisor is what you're paid for. Sit there, look there, watch the person. You might feel like pulling your hair out, but watch the person crease 100 handbags. Even if it takes you three months, watch make sure certify the person before you can free the person on the factory floor. Because if you free somebody on the factory floor prematurely, remember what I said at the back end factory end, you guys mess up.

You're making things really, really difficult on people on the front end because it's not easy to sell crap. Even if you sell crap, it's not easy to get person the the customer to come back and buy crap again. So it's a lot easier to make sure that the back end, factory end, we just do things 100% so that people on the front end who are dealing with the customer have an easier job. So that's pretty much what we discussed on Independence Day.

And we had fun was was real nice. And these are sorts of things that we should all take on board regardless of whatever industry that we're in. If you're in one of these bifurcated industries, there's front end, there's back end, please. You will just realise like. It's all important. So it's not a matter of we, we're in front end, we're important. The people in the factory are useless. And it's not a matter of we in the factory, we're doing the main thing.

The people in the front end, I mean, they're sitting on that AC, they're useless. What do they do? They don't do anything. Everybody's important. Then if you happen to work for an organization that happens to take these things seriously, because I'm really, really impressed by the quality of employers that I'm running into the longer that I do this. People who genuinely care for their people. Because back as a lawyer in Kano, I know the rubbish that we used to see.

I mean, there was one storehand who got his fingers cut off in the factory and you know, they just bandaged the guy's fingers. You know, there was no work insurance, there was no work insurance, there was no injury compensation, there was no nothing. So I know that in Nigeria there's lots of rubbish that happens. So for businesses and business owners that take these things seriously, like OK, you are my staff. This is how much for training,

this is how much for hospital, this is how much for health insurance, this is how much for annual checkup and things like that. Please take these things seriously. Enjoy the time while you're with this employer. Make sure that you guys part on good times because I've also noticed that employers like the Magnisi Lady and people have consulted with in the past, like they excuse me, they're not naive. They know you're going to leave one day.

So make sure you're apart from good terms. Everybody's happy, you know, things like that. I've seen the way she even supports people who have left her brands to go start their own thing. So when you were nice employers just, you know, just blend, you know, it's all love. Let's be 1 happy family for now. Eventually we all move on, you know, doesn't mean we have to be enemies. In fact, that is how I'm going to build my own agency practice.

So currently I'm not taking any consultants underneath under me. But in another 3-4 years, yes, I will start looking for people that should be associates with my consulting outfit. And well, anyway, as we start making those changes, I'll talk about those things over here on the podcast. So yeah, that's it. That's all I wanted to share with you guys today. And yeah, so thanks for your time and attention. I'll catch you guys at the next episode.

Connect with me on WhatsApp, questions, queries, comments or maybe object to something that I've said. The phone number is 08064662140. The country code is +234 for those of you who are not Nigerian. So hit me up. Calls SMS, WhatsApp, Nuala then connect me on LinkedIn the name to look for establishment IED. If you check this link, we're listening to this episode. You just highlight my name, copy paste and LinkedIn. You see my handsome face, my cute babyface smile and then send me a connection request.

So thanks for your time and attention. I'll catch you guys at the next episode.