Turning Lookers into Buyers: Arinze's Heavy Machinery Sales Challenge

Hello and welcome to the show. Making today's recording in the kids room actually because the house is full. It's a public holiday. The house is being cleaned, so expect to hear some interruptions in the background. Now this is the first time of discovering the podcast. The goal of this show is business education. So it's not about my life. So don't worry, you are in the right place. Oh, I'm sorry, you know the noise with the ram in the background?

That's because we're heading into the Eid eel something. Sorry about that. So like I said, we're heading into the Eid holidays. So our neighbors have Rams roaming all over the place, the place. So yeah, so we're here for business education and if you like what you hear on the podcast, then please let your friends and family members know in Nigeria and abroad so that they can benefit from the questions that we tackle. They can do that by subscribing on Spotify, YouTube, Apple, or any player of their choice.

And if you have any sales and marketing questions, then bring them to me by calling, sending an SMS or WhatsApp message to 08064662140. Now today on the show, OK, today's show is going to be a very long one. We're going to tackle a listener question from Irene Z in Lagos. He's in the business of construction and in the mining sectors. He sells heavy duty machines like excavators, forklifts, wheel loaders, you know, all those sorts of things.

And well, pretty much he reached out because he likes the show. He's had lots of stuff from different businesses, but I haven't done anything from the construction and the mining sector. And so that's what today's episode is going to be about. We're going to be looking at his business, a couple of things around business development ideas, how he can grow more sales and how he can deal with increasing conversions in his business.

Conversions just mean if you're talking to a certain number of people, you know, 561020, how many people do you get to take the next step? So if normally you talk to 10 people and you get let's say five people to book an appointment from the five who book an appointment maybe to close the deal and become your paying customers. So all those steps in, all those small steps in the process, that is what we call conversions.

So today's episode is going to be a very general one. We'll be looking at all these sorts of things. All right. So like I said, Ariza is in Lagos. He's in the business of construction and mining sectors. He sells heavy duty machines. So all those tractors that you see whenever Julius Berger or you know, whether people in Lagos who are doing work on the Eco Atlantic, you know that whole side. So all those heavy machines that you see, that's the kind of thing that he sells now.

The channel that he has used for business growth and sales in the future has been sponsored ads. So he runs lots of sponsored advertisements and from there, based on the conversation that we've had, we have like 3 categories of people that he's been interacting with so far. So, so far 9095 S Let me check the messages. OK? So 95% of the leads that come in as people who call or send messages, 95% of them request photos and they ask him tons of questions, but then they don't end up taking any action at all once they receive the information.

So that's the first group. He sends text messages and 95% of people they call in, they send messages, but then they don't take action. Then there's 3% that show up physically and inspect the equipment, but then they don't buy. Then overall, only 2% of people end up closing the deal, end up closing. He's able to close the deal and they end up buying some tractors, some diggers, some cranes, some forklifts, some whatever.

From him, only 2%. So let's repeat, He sends out sponsored advertisements and from those advertisements, 95% of people, they say, hey, I'm interested, I beg, send me picture. But then from the picture, they just ghost. They don't do anything. 3% they show up and they look at the tractor, they look at the disk, they look at the darkness. Oh, I like this, I like this, I like this. And then from there they disappear and then only 2% end up buying something.

So Irene has two questions that he wants answered and the questions are, let me see. So I have to check the messages again. OK. He wants to know, are there any other ways of going after clients? That's the first question. Then the second question is how to avoid time wasters, how to avoid people who should otherwise be worker pass. You know those people that when they come to your storefront, when they come to your shop,

when it's lightning to your DM, you just want to tell them like, look, you know what, just get out, you're wasting my time. So that's the second question, how to avoid time wasters in this scenario. OK, so there are, how do I put it? OK, There are multiple perspectives, different perspectives, different ways for dealing with these sorts of things, these sorts of issues. Now, the first perspective that I want to put out there is what I will call the tech bro perspective of the Texas.

You know, once you check out all this stuff online from YouTube and things like that, you can see that these tech Bros, the tech brothers and sisters, you know, they think in a very mathematics way, they think in a very quantitative approach. You know, everything has to be, you can reduce everything to numbers, you can reduce everything to adequation. And so that is 1 valid way of looking at this sort of thing. So the tech bro perspective in this case now is to look at things such as CAC.

The CAC is a customer acquisition costs or the cost of acquiring a customer. You're trying to figure out what it is as a number. Now, this number is usually expressed, you know, in a ratio, you know, 3 to one, one to five, one to two, two to 10, you know, whatever. But the math idea, the tech bro perspective idea behind it is this. So long as you have a good ratio in the business with the expenses, continue to spend money and continue to enjoy the profits, Don't disturb yourself.

So that is the tech bro perspective. Look at the customer acquisition cost. How much money does it cost to acquire a customer? So long as the ratio is good, don't disturb yourself, continue to make the money. In other words, the tech bro will say if you're spending one M and at the end of the day you're collecting 6M, then don't disturb yourself. Next year spend 2 M, then you will collect 12. Maybe the year after that spend 3 M and then you will collect 18

M. So the math perspective of this is don't disturb your head. Just look at how much money am I dropping? How much money is coming in? So long as The thing is positive, just continue to pour money down that equation and continue to make that money. So if you're looking at things from this perspective now, this very math based approach, this quantitative approach, this tech bro and this tech sister approach, the big question now is, you know, ask yourself how much did you spend to get customers last year or last quarter?

You add everything up, advertising costs, added up the amount you spent for content marketing, added up the amount you spent on hosting your website, on going to trade shows, on travelling to see customers. Customers come and see you. Maybe you take them to a restaurant. You guys want, you know, eat as soon and drink stout. You know, entertainment costs, overhead, salary, everything add up all those costs. Then you now ask yourself, OK,

after dropping all this money last year, how much money in total came in? You're now trying to figure out the AOVAOV is the average order value. What that means is you're trying to figure out on average how much is each customer spending after I'm dropping all these millions on advertising and everything. On average, how much are people coming in or you now trying to figure out another ratio that is the gross margin or some people call it the gross profit per customer.

That just means you're trying to look the long and short is we're trying to figure out on average how much is 1 customer bringing in. That's what they're trying to figure out. And like I said, the idea behind it is this. So long as your ratio is good, don't disturb yourself. If you're spending one naira to get 3 naira, then don't disturb yourself. The goal is the answer is now how much 1 naira can I spend? Hope you guys understand the logic.

You're just trying to see whether the ratio is good. Now spending all this money, this is how much is calling coming in. You express it in the form of a ratio and if it means you're dropping 2 naira and for every two naira you drop, you get 10 naira back. Then the goal is where can I go and get another two naira, whether I will borrow or whether I will invest for my savings or whatever, but how much 2 naira can I throw back into the business so that I keep coming,

I keep getting more and more and more. That is just the take way of looking at it. So our brothers and sisters who are in the tech space, they're trying to do fintech. Excuse me, they're trying to do fintech or they're trying to do this fancy business idea. This is the mathematics that they play with every single day. They just want to know, can I drop A and I get 5 * A? If the thing works, they will just continue to throw the money, throw the money, throw the money, throw the money, get the returns, get the returns,

get the returns. Don't disturb your head because the average person will look at the fact of man, I spent like 5:00 AM in advertising last year. That's how the average person will look at it. The tech bro or he will say is OK, you spent five M last year in advertising, but how much money you made? How much money did you make or you made 250M no problem. Continue to spend the five M and continue to get the 250 on every single five M.

That is one way of looking at it. Then another formula that our tech Bros and tech sisters like to use is ROW as that is return on advertising spend. But the philosophy is the same. How much money did I spend? How much money came in? So you can see that the different formulas, but the all the formulas are trying to ask these two questions. How much did I spend? How much came in? In other words, there is only a problem.

If you spend 5 million and then 5 million came in, that means this problem. It means you are break even. It means zero, it means you didn't get progress. In fact, if you spend 5 M and then only three million came in, there's fire on the mountain. It means you're running at a loss. But you can see it's a very mathematics based way of looking at things. So that would be one way of looking at things from our brother's situation, from arranged the situation.

That's the tech bro perspective, the math perspective, the quantitative approach. Now for those of us who come from the sales and business development perspective, we are not always this math inclined. In fact, you've been following the podcast. You know that I'm not a math genius. So I don't think in those terms what is a useful, but you should know about these things so that you can think about it and factor it into your business.

It's a very useful way of looking at things. But from a sales, sales perspective, we are usually much more concerned with improving conversions. So generally what we try to do in the sales, we sales people is sorry, 1 moment. OK, Sorry about that. I had to step away for a while because one of my kids needed my attention. So I believe I was talking about Arinze and OK, how we would look at things from a sales perspective, because we have looked at the mathematics perspective, the tech perspective for dealing with these sorts of things, which is to try and narrow everything down to numbers, narrow everything down to ratios.

And so long as the ratio is positive, you continue to throw more money at the problem. Because the question is if somebody would say, look, give me one error and every time you give me one error, I'll give you 7 back. The response is OK, no problem. The response is OK. How many one errors can I give this guy if every single time I give him one error, I get 7 back? Excuse me? So that is the perspective. Now from a sales perspective,

what we try to do is we try to improve conversions. Sorry, 1 moment. OK, sorry about that. Recovering from a cold as usual. Now from a sales perspective, what we try and do is we try and figure out conversions. So we try and figure out what is working first of all, so that we can tweak and optimize what is working because the more you can optimize or make things better, you improve conversions. Now, conversions, just in case I

didn't define it at the top of the episode. The conversion just means the amount of people who are taking the next relevant step towards starting a buying relationship or becoming a customer. So the way that I explain it using my wedding photography background is this. In the old days, I will go to a bridal show because I was hoping to meet brides and grooms who are planning their weddings. I'll go there with a list because I'm hoping to capture leads.

A lead is anybody who has done something to show that they might be interested in your product or service. So if I go for this bridal show and I stay in my booth, I stay at my table and 100 people come, We have a conversation. It shows they might be interested. Of the 100 people that come, if 70 of them give me their phone number, then that means I've captured 70 leads or 70 contacts. These are people who might be interested.

They've done something true. They might be interested. So this step between 100 people coming to the booth and me collecting 70 phone numbers, that is a conversion. 100 people came and then from the 100 that came, 70 dropped their phone number. So that is one step, 70 people converted. For the 70 people that converted, the next week I'll definitely try and call or send messages to all of them. I'll try and hook up meetings,

whether they will come to my studio or whether I'll go to their house or to their office so that we can chat some more. So let's say for the 70 that I collected contact details, 50 show up and come to my studio so that we can look at albums. That is also another step and you can see another set of conversions. 100 people came to the booth, 70 dropped their phone number, only 70 converted. Of the 70 that dropped the phone number, only 50 showed up for meeting.

The other 20, maybe they ghosted me. So those fifty, that means 50 converted. Then for the 50 that come to the studio and we look at samples, maybe when I start discussing numbers and some of them invite proposals, so let's start over that 50. Only 30 people agree and we exchanged fact and figures. You know, we send proposal, we send invoice that is 30. You can see another step and another series of conversions. So of the 50 people who showed up to the studio, only 30 people said how much Gimme proposal,

Gimme invoice that is conversion. Then for the 30 who said Gimme invoice, Gimme proposal, maybe at the end of the day, only 20 people paid deposit and became customers. So you can see now that every single step that we've been taking, small, small, small, small, at each stage there's been something that we in sales like to call a conversion. 100 people came to the booth. I tried to convert only 70 dropped their phone number.

I tried to convert only 50 showed up to the studio. I tried to convert only 30. As for proposal invoice, I tried to convert only 20 paid deposit and that is the final conversion. So those 20 have become my customers. So based, so the gap from the 100 that showed up at the exhibition and the 20 that became my customer, that is me trying to close the deal in micro steps and we can see series of conversions happening along the way.

So the salesperson, the traditional salesperson, this is where the personal focus. Now, if you can't convince conversions in one stage, you will get a better outcome at the end. In other words, if 100 people show and you're able to collect 98 contact details, you can see that it's going to improve the overall result because before set 100 people came, you collected 17 numbers. From 17 numbers, you did 50 meetings. From 50 meetings, you did 30

proposals. From 30 proposals, you collected 2020 deposits. So if you're able to next time instead of 100 in from 100, you're getting 70 people to drop their details. If you're able to get 98 or 80 to drop their details, you can see that that progress will cascade all the way down. So sales people were always worried about our conversions. How can we improve our conversions? I'm talking to 10 people. I'm able to close the deal with two.

How can I go from 2:00 to 3:00? How can I go from three to four? How can I go from 4:00 to 5:00, no matter how small? Because on paper, conversions look small. You say somebody only did 1%, They only improved conversions by 1%. But in reality, depending on your profit margin, it could be huge. Like I said, tell other wedding photographers back in the day, it makes a difference. Somebody would say I only got one extra client.

But The thing is this, if you have 5 clients, each client, your profit is 100K on them. If you're able to increase your conversions and you're able to close just one more deal, that is an extra 100K. That is the difference between doing 400 K every month and doing 500 or 600 every month. That extra is a big deal. So even small conversions add up to a big deal. So those are the perspective of looking at things. We can either go to bath based approach, narrow everything down, figure out the numbers and if the numbers are positive,

don't worry yourself, continue to spend. Or we can try and figure out what our conversion rate is, the points of conversion and improve on that. Of course, ideally you should be doing both. Your business is never either or, so we should be doing both. So let's try and answer the arises questions directly now. So are there other ways to go after clients? Yeah, sure they are. You wouldn't be surprised if you've been listening to the podcast for a while that I

always start off with targeted outreach because me, I'm in favour of your customers out there. Go and chase them because it's really the most straightforward thing to do. Any other thing you do, you don't have control over it and it takes too much time. So for me that is always my default. I will say targeted outreach. Let's try and figure out where they are. Let's go outlook for them. So the first way that RNC can get more clients is targeted outreach or in his own case A/B

MABM just means account based marketing. Basically that just means you're trying to look for high value targets. In his own case, he's going to be looking at high value construction companies and mining companies that might need machines. And then he will now come up with ideas for going to them directly, whether by going to their office or whether through networking, trying to hook up with some of the executives. Or maybe he will get somebody's phone number.

And then he will do call calling and just try and call straight and see whether he can get some introductions or set up some meetings or something like that. So targeted outreach instead of doing advertisements, Irene Z can try targeted outreach. Then there's also social media, although because he's in the big machine space, because he's not selling things that people buy for, you know, 500,000, you know, he's selling things that people buy, hundreds of millions, 10s of millions.

So in this case, I really think the social media he should be doing so. Yeah, this is just a guess by the way. But anyway, in sales, sometimes we always start with guesswork. I'm assuming that for those kinds of expenses, big, big money like that, you know, hundreds of millions, my guess is he probably should not be doing Instagram or Tiktok. I could be wrong, but I don't think people are buying tractors and diggers and excavators from Instagram and from Tiktok.

So I'm thinking that is it should be on LinkedIn. So on LinkedIn, I would recommend that he tries LinkedIn Sales Navigator. That is one of their paid options because he gives you more searching and more filtering criteria so that he can sit down in the comfort of his home and be able to figure out that, OK, all these companies that are around Julius Berger or Lagos State Construction, you know, or FCDA Abuja, that's the Federal Capital Development Authority.

Those people handle constructions. He can sit down on LinkedIn and be able to search and filter and figure out, you know, who is the MD or who is the head of planning or who is the head of this or who is the head of that, be able to find them on LinkedIn and be able to send messages to them. So because for those of us who have free accounts on LinkedIn, we can only send people, we only send messages to people that we're personally connect connected with.

But if you have LinkedIn Sales Navigator or other paid LinkedIn accounts, you have more features, you can send messages to more people, you can broadcast messages to more people, you know, things like that. But basically using social media, especially LinkedIn and especially the paid features, you'll be able to go after a much more targeted set of of clients and do outreach that way. Then I really say can also do partnerships and alliances.

I've spoken about it a lot, especially since back in the day, that's how we wedding photographers, that's how we used to enter the business. You know, the idea is very simple, you're coming into a new place, you want to look for people who offer complimentary services, you not pally with them and you send business back and forth. So that meant when I was coming into Abuja, those of us were entering into Abuja back then.

You know, I'm thinking who are the wedding planners we can hook up with or who are the wedding wedding venues that we can hook up with, all the decorators that we can hook up with and hope you'll be able to get from small business. So the logic is the same. So Aransi would not be pattering partnering with people who offer complementary services. So in this case, I'm thinking civil engineering companies and then companies that let me see what else, OK, not just civil engineering, but companies that do leasing and repair.

And then they can now be referring customers back and forth. So you value up with a civil engineering company. The civil engineering company says, oh, I'm dealing with Alhaji Dangote. They're working on their news and manufactory. They'll need this, they'll need this, they'll need that. But you can you supply these kind of things? Yes, I can. OK. But you know, now scratch my back and scratch your own. If Dangote should buy 20 tractor for you, how much are you giving me?

Is it one 1%? Is it five 5%? You know, you have that conversation and then you hook things up. So partnerships and alliances, you know, people do that. I'm sure they can also work in the ring. This case, then this one. Now inbound marketing, people talk about this one a lot, content marketing. But in my own opinion, I think this is one that people should not start. How I put it, inbound marketing and content marketing, it's good.

Inbound means you try and set up your marketing in such a way that people are attracted to you and they try and rush you, they chase you. What wrong inbound marketing or content marketing is? It's not a good approach for someone who is looking for immediate returns. If you're looking for money now, now, now, this is not a good strategy for you because inbound marketing and content marketing is a long term strategy. In fact, in most cases, I'll say maybe like 3 years before you start to see money on it because inbound marketing and content marketing is going to involve you putting out things on blogs,

putting out things on YouTube, on podcasts, on, excuse me, websites, you know, just putting out content share. But The thing is, it takes a lot of time to generate no lack and trust through inbound marketing. So if you need money now, now, now it's not a good idea. I can say. So from my own personal experience because this podcast has been going on for five years. I can assure you that the first year of the podcast, I didn't make any money.

The second year of the podcast, I didn't make any money. The third year of the podcast, that is when people started sending messages. So you know, boy, half hour, what's up? Are you free? How much do you cost? So I can tell you from personal experience that if you're going to use content marketing, inbound marketing to source for leads is not automatic. It's not going to start the first six months, it's not going to start the first year.

So I would not even recommend that Irene should try about marketing or content marketing strategy. But then it depends because like there's someone else that I'm talking to. She has a course that she's trying to sell. And we had the conversation like how far how's money? Everything at work is a good. You know your boyfriend like you're you're all a good parental support. How does that want to check out? We have the conversation and not to tell.

The reason why I'm asking all these questions is because if you start this content marketing approach, just know that for the next 2-3 years, you will not see anything. In fact, we'll even be demoralizing at some point. You even be asking yourself. Every day I wake up, I do my makeup, I put on the light, I put on the camera, I get my computer, I record the audio, I edit the thing, I put it up. I'm not seeing any returns.

Should I haven't continued this? So you need to ask yourself these questions from the beginning. Can you put up with this kind of thing? And my conversation with her, she said, oh, money is not a problem. I said OK, cool, no problem. In that case, let's continue. So because the one that she will use to pay rent is settled, the one that she will use to eat is settled. The one that she will use for Internet is settled. The one that she will use for car is settled.

She doesn't have kids. The boyfriend herself, the guys are now serious fellow. He's like a useless somebody. So the one is as if the relationship service is going to fail. So for her, there's no problem. So in her own case, content marketing strategy, inbound or sure, no problem because money is sorted. If you need money now, now, now I'm telling you, please do not start with inbound marketing, excuse me, or a content marketing approach.

That is why for some of you who reach out to me and say I love the podcast, I want to start a podcast. That is the reason why I'm going to say, look, podcasting sound fun, sounds fun, but do not start a podcast. I'm not trying to discourage you. I'm just being real with you. If you're going to do something that is content marketing and that is inbound marketing, it requires time. If it sounds to me like you're looking for money now, now, now,

do not go and start a podcast. Podcast will not give you money now, now, now. Blogging will not give you money now, now, now, just know it. So I'm not going to recommend this last one inbound marketing content marketing for Arinzi then how to avoid time wasting clients. OK, that's a wide question, to be honest, very, very wide. And The thing is this, usually if you're having clients that are very anyhow anyhow very walk up us, then usually what happens is you're not doing good.

Qualification and discovery questions. Qualification and discovery questions are the stage in the sales relationship where you're asking questions about the individual or about the opportunity or about their vision or about their problem and you're trying to figure out who are they, What's the problem? Do I have inventory that can solve this problem? Does it look like there's room for progress here? There's a stage for that.

Some of you are not even aware. And because you're trying to bypass qualification and discovery, that is why you're getting with people who are wasting your time. This is a conversation that I had with somebody who is in the freight forwarding space. The person was telling me that he is doing good qualifications and discovery. And I told him that look, you're not. He was going with me and I told him, look, calm down, listen,

first listen. And I told him I look back at my wedding photography days. If a babe came to me, no matter how much money she has, if the boyfriend has not proposed, I know that that's not a good deal. I'm a wedding photographer or rather then I was a wedding photographer. So on my checklist was has somebody even proposed to this babe? Any person that they've not proposed to who is asking you a question? She is just curious if you take it to heart.

I continue following up with her. It is you that are doing yourself, you didn't ask any qualification, any qualifying questions. You didn't ask any discovery questions. So you just assumed it was a good deal and you were running after somebody that was never going to buy. Because think about it, if you are selling wedding photography person when they never proposed to like honestly, you think and close the deal. So for me, it was on the checklist and it was part of the conversation points I used to have.

Of course, I won't say how somebody proposed to you. I'll just say, oh, tell me what the proposal was like I just said, oh, oh, no, he hasn't really proposed, but I think he's going to propose soon, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. In my mind, I already know that. OK, this one, this is not somebody that I now pursue, you know, fool fire, whether they've proposed to her, that's good. You can see that when you handle this thing by keeping it simple and conversational, they will think you're just good.

You're just making casual conversation. It's not casual conversation. I know the information that I need. I'm just trying to be friendly about it and getting them to loosen up and open up. So I said, oh, tell me about the proposal, should begin the talk. I will now start getting all the background information. Oh, OK, he's proposed. Next thing I wanted to know was whether the family has met and whether this wedding date because sometimes the couple will say they have a wedding date, but it's two of them that gave themselves that date.

And let's be honest, why Nigeria? Let's be honest here, that two of you came together and put up a date. You're deceiving yourself is when the families meet, they will now tell you the date that is convenient for them because your father will want his uncles, his friends, your mom's. You will want, you know, classmates and you know, So if bride and groom meets together and they say they have a wedding date, I will ask you've told them give themselves that date.

Another OK, these people are not serious. They haven't even started. So is when they're proposed to somebody 1st and then the family has met and given a wedding date and I know that OK now I'm making progress. Another question I used to ask was wedding hall, because the person that has paid for wedding hall, the person is on the moving train, they have wedding date, they've paid for the hall, they have started spending money, they're heading somewhere.

This is another serious client for me to be pursuing. Hope you guys understand what I'm saying. Now I'm asking questions about the couple and I'm asking questions about the situation and about the vision. The answers that they are giving me is helping me to determine who is serious and who is the worker pass. So you need done with his daughter comes and meets me as she asks how much you know, if nobody has proposed to down with his daughter and to be honest,

we're just wasting our time. Of course, I'll I'll keep her phone number and I'll be calling her once in a while to say what's up because somebody like that, you know, they will spend well a wedding photo and a wedding video. But you should be asking people some questions. The answers that you get we'll be able to let you know is this a serious somebody? Is this somebody that has money? Is this somebody that has a problem?

Is this somebody that's taking action? That is how you figure out who are the time wasters, who are the worker pass or who are the serious people. This stage is called qualification and discovery. So to avoid time wasters, you should be engaging in qualification and discovery. There are different techniques that are out there because of the industry that Arrange is in. I want to recommend Spin to him. Spin is a selling is a qualification technique where you ask questions around the situation, around the problem,

around the implication and around their needs. SPIN situation, problem, implication and needs. Basically you're just trying to figure out, oh, how far? How far would you guess what's going on? Or are you guys facing problems here and there? This problem self, how big is it? How serious is it? OK, it's a big problem, all right? If we don't solve this problem now, what will happen? OK, What other needs do you have that gives you all the information to figure out if this person is serious?

If there's a problem, how do I put it? It gives you a good sense of whether this is somebody you should be chasing 100% or somebody should just, you know, just relax more, collect their contact details once in a while, you know, just the send a message like what's up, what's up. But it's not as if you'll be following up with them 100%. Also, if you use trial closes early and use them often, the trial close is just questions that you use to try and gauge people's temperature to try and figure out are they interested?

Are we on the same course? Then also, you should be seeking advancements when you're having conversations with people and advancement just means at every conversation you agree to what the next step is supposed to be. Because too many people are reactive. You are allowing the other person to determine what the next step is. You are the sales professional. You are the one who's supposed to be determining what the next step is.

Now you can see that I've mentioned lots of things. I've mentioned qualification and discovery. I've given 1 qualification and discovery technique, which is spin. I've also talked about using trial clauses and I've also spoken about seeking advancements. And to be honest, each of these things that I've called now in itself is probably another 30 or 45 minutes podcast episode. So you can see why I say the talk is plenty, which is why it's best.

Although in arises case I didn't continue the conversation with me by said, let me just put up this podcast episode here so that other people in the situation will learn. These are the reasons why when a consultant says you don't need to ask you some more questions, these are precisely the reasons why I can't just be advertising you in the general general. I need to figure out exactly what it is that is going on. So anyway, it's from having more conversations with someone like an easy that can be able to figure out where exactly is he dropping the ball?

Is it that he's not seeking advancements? Is it that he's not using trial closes or is it that he's not doing qualification and discovery? But anyway, let's talk some more about qualification and discovery. OK, This is almost 14 minutes. OK, let me try and wrap it up. So I came up with some sample questions that somebody like Aaron's they can use in the situation because all the examples I've been given so far, people in the wedding space now usual reason why, excuse me, I'm using I started off at weddings because I want you guys to see that this is a simple process that simple people can use because somebody will now come and say, oh, you're only talking about construction My own business is not that big I'm selling you my hair is not that big.

I'm just trying to show you that whether the business is big or small, it applies wedding photography where you're collecting 10s of thousands or hundreds of thousands, it applies construction equipment where you're collecting 10s of millions or hundreds of millions, it applies. So the qualification questions, sample questions, now you can ask questions around the problem, around their need and try and figure out the implications.

You know, what's going on here. So someone like I really say, when somebody shows up, you should be asking them. So what are your current opera, current operations? I know it seems, it seems general, but you have to be asking. You need to know who you're dealing with. Based on the replies they give you, you will now know whether, OK, this person is a jam bite, they haven't started this business at all, or whether this person has been in this business for 20 years and they are buying new tractors every six, six years or something like that.

Is I'm asking this kind of general question about the current operations that you know, what's up. You also ask questions. I really should also be asking questions like, So what projects, what ongoing projects do you have currently or what ongoing projects requires this kind of equipment? If somebody comes and says he needs a dredging equipment and he's asking for the XYZ 7000, you ask the person what kind of project are they working on now?

The person who says, oh, they need it because they're currently working on a Co Atlantic and they're dredging. You know, you can see that from the response. You'll not be able to hear that. Oh, OK, this is a big boy. The guy has already been awarded contract for a Co Atlantic and they are dredging 20 feet of of coastline. Because of that, they need a dredger that is different from somebody who is just asking because, well, they're curious.

They just want to enter the business. So if you ask these kinds of questions, what are your current operations? What ongoing projects do you have? And the persons like, Oh no, I'm just curious. I want to enter the business. Me and my uncle, we've raised some money. Clearly you can see that they're on. How will I put it is not the same the way you follow somebody who has been in the business for 20 years and who has a car, a current project that has been awarded with Lagos State government.

The way you follow that person and be yawning is not the same way you follow the other person who says me and my uncle, we've been able to raise like 200 M, We just want to start the business. The conversation is different. You also ask questions about frustration with their processes. Oh, this is the project you're working on. These are the equipment you have. I can see that you have the CAT 2000. You have the this 50000.

This equipment sometimes in the past, it usually normally has RPM of this, this, this, because of that is very slow. Have you been facing this kind of frustration? And you ask and then you wait and you hear if they're OK with the RPMRPM is I think it's rotations per minute or something. So if you're happy with the speed of this equipment and it's not a problem, it's not a problem. You now know that you're proposing or looking at other kinds of other kinds of machines to propose.

But The thing is you should be asking all these questions. See, This is why I tell people that some people move too fast. Somebody will reach out to you and say I want to buy the CAT5000. You will now respond CAT5000, that one is 15,000,000. You will now send them proposal, send them price, you send them account details and it goes to you and you'll be saying that they're not serious. The problem is not with them. The problem is with you.

You didn't ask enough questions. How do you know that this person actually needs the CAT? Whatever the person asked for? How do you know engage people in conversations? This is why the average person that reaches out to me, I'm trying to get them to understand that sales is a conversation. Engage people, engage someone and have a conversation. From the responses that they're giving you, this is how you now know this person is a big boy,

this person is a big girl. This person is a useless somebody. This person is a church, right? This person is a time waster. You will now know how to guide your time accordingly that for these people, I'll be following up with them every 5-5 days. For this other person, maybe I was sending them message once every two months. What frustrations do they have with the current equipment? The person who is reaching out, are they trying to replace equipment or are they trying to add to a fleet?

That is also an important points to know the person who is replacing equipment. It means that they have a project, the clock is ticking, time is going because they've already been paid. They need to replace this thing now, now, now. The person who is adding to an ongoing fleet is important. Maybe they're just adding to an ongoing fleet because they just want to do routine maintenance. You know, it's not as if there's any job going on right now.

But as a general principle, they like to have 5 tractors on standby just in case. The urgency, the need is different. We should be asking these kind of questions. We should ask questions around their timelines. What projects are they working on now? What is the timeline? When are they trying to finish up? What are the critical dates? When exactly worst case scenario, do they need this kind of equipment by We should be asking all kinds of these questions.

I remember when asking them in a conversational way, they would just think, oh, you're nice, you're making a small talk. But you, you're the professional, you're the one you're asking the question because you know the kind of information that you need to be able to make a killer proposal. Also ask questions around budget. Some people wait for too long. Hi, I'm a fan of bringing up budget questions early and you should be asking what kind of investments are you guys willing to make?

Ask them right here. The person that says I'm not willing to spend more than 20 M, you know, it tells you a lot because if honestly, the market value of the equipment brand new is 45 and somebody tells you that they're not only spent 20, what does that tell you? It tells you that this person is not serious or that this person has not done research or that this person is a jam bite. He's entering the industry for the first time, so he doesn't know what's up.

Ask or after somebody comes, you will have looked at one or two models, you've talked about different things. You put it to them very straight. The options you have looked at so far are within XYZ and ABC, millions of narrow range. Is that an investment you're willing to make at the moment you ask them, are you here? Ask the person that says A20M to 50M for what You as the professional, if you know that that is the going market rate,

you now know that this person is a jam bite in the space or the person is an illiterate in the space. The person doesn't know what's up. This is not a serious prospect. The kind of person who says, OK, 20 to 30 million, that sounds about right. But to be honest, by the time I talk to my partners, we'll be looking for a discount. You know that that kind of person is a serious person. I mean a little serious. So you ask.

Also, you should be asking questions around authority. Who typically authorizes these kinds of purchase in your company? Who else is going to be evaluating this equipment before you buy? The reason why you shouldn't ask is because sometimes the decision is going to be made by a committee. If you know the decision will be made by a committee, then you can start roping people in from the beginning. You need to know also because sometimes the person who is asking you the questions does not have the authority to, to,

to purchase anything. If the adult company sends his PA, go on call, go on make inquiries. Whether we like it or not, the PA cannot authorize anything. But of course, no PA will call you and say I'm the PA. It is from having all these questions. Who else is going to be evaluating this equipment? Is I'm asking all questions like that that you now discovered that Oh after all this person is only APA. The person that will evaluate this equipment is actually Engineer Show Care Phone.

Now that you know part of your questions will be OK since Engineer Show Care Phone is going to be part of this process, how soon will Engineer Show Care Phone be in Lagos and when can we hook up an inspection? Doing an inspection with the PA who has no authority to buy is wasting your time. If you figure out that Engineer, Show careful or MD Abdul Rahman needs to be on site and inspect the thing. The sooner you can hook up a meeting with Engineer Show Careful and MD Abdul Rahman, the closer you are you will be to get in the deal.

So all these questions around authority are there now. The way I used to do it for wedding photography use, I normally used to say, especially when it was guys, I normally say something like hey bro, usually it's the babes who come and ask me for wedding photography. But this one we've seen like 3 times is only you. Like how far is it? Your babies not interested? I would ask straight up, there's some people who tell you that oh in my culture it is the man who does these kinds of things.

In that case, I now know that OK, I can continue talking with this guy because based on that culture, it is the man who gets the wedding photographer and some other cultures, like for Yoruba people, you know, towards that legal side, it is the babe's family that procures this thing. So if you're talking to a Yoruba couple and he's been the guy all the way through, you've had like 6 meetings, you've never seen the bride, maybe it's not a good sign, maybe.

So authority questions you asked in this case, you can say it, everything can say it. OK, well bro, been talking like two or three times, but usually it's procurement manager or project manager who reaches out for this kind of inquiry. So how far now you are come as they ask. However, you're going to ask it in a jovial sense, you know, whatever sense. But The thing is ask you're trying to figure out all the parties in play.

The goal is when you know who the parties are in play, you can now involve them early in the conversation. Then trial closes. Trial closes are things that you do or questions that you ask that checks the emotional temperature or the interests of the person. Are they interested? You know, things like that. So in this case, if someone like Ariza asked them, OK, so apart from this criteria, that criteria, what other technical features are you looking at?

If they give you an answer, it might mean you're on the right course. If they say, Oh no, no, no, I think I have all the information I need, I'll get back to you later. I mean, maybe they're not interested. Another question, where in Lagos or where in Port Harcourt are we delivering this tractor to? I want to know so I can give you an accurate idea of delivery costs. By the time you ask that kind of questions on people who say a guy, calm down now we haven't finished pricing yet.

In that case, you know that your own course, another person might say, oh is going to pH. So, so, so, so local government that we need it by XYZ date. That kind of person, you now know that OK, you're also on the same track. The person that wants to say delivery cost, how have we agreed anything? You're also getting a sense of where that person feels. The person that says let me get back to you later, you're also getting a sense of where that person is just by asking all these small, small trial closes.

Another question, after we deliver, what kind of sales and after support will you guys need? The person that says, let me think about it, let me talk to you later. It gives you a sense of where they are. The person who answers confidently that OK, typically when we buy these things with our former supplier, this and this and this is what we expect. We expect servicing at month 6 and we expect turn around maintenance at month 15.

You're getting a sense of who it is that you're talking to. And then also another question that me I'd like to ask, you know, of course I'm not in construction, but that's the kind of question I would ask anyway when I'm dealing with corporate clients. So indicates be something like this. So if we're good to go here, when and how will you guys be issuing the purchase order or the PO number or what is the next step in the requisition process?

This kind of question is helping you to feel out what is going on. The person who answers that, OK, this is the next step. We usually issue PO to issue the POI have to be in touch with this person, that person. This is the next step. You can see that, OK, based on the answer, you guys are heading in some particular direction. General notes, by the way, if anybody talks about RFP, may I avoid RFPRFPS request for proposal?

May I always avoid RFP? Because whenever somebody says our own process is RFP, what that means is they're going to collect bids from different people, you know, 3 or 4, and then they will now compare. I don't like RFP because usually what happens is if somebody has for RFP, they're going to select and then they'll just give it to the cheapest person. I mean, I'm not going to waste my time, you know, 3 weeks, 4 weeks, creating a proposal document, send it to you only for you to give it to the cheapest person.

So me, as a general rule, I avoid RFPs, but I'll make a podcast episode about that later about RFP processes. But yeah, that's a question. If we're going ahead, who is issuing the PO? What is the requisition process? What is the next step? Are you going to be issuing this and this and this? Am I supposed to send you a performer invoice to get this going? All these trial questions they're helping you to gauge, is this person interested?

What's the emotional temperature? Are they botting? Are they on fire? They don't want to move forward or they're just cold. Anyway, the summary of what I'm saying, well, OK, this is 15 minutes. We've been on for a while. OK, let me just wrap up now. Basically what I've been trying to say is there are a lot of you who are with time wasters in quote. To be honest, it's not the other person wasting your time. In most cases, it is you wasting your own time.

You have not been asking the other person the right questions because when you ask the other person the right questions, you will know, am I talking to a serious somebody? Am I talking to a time waster? Is this person just curious? Or does the person have a serious need, a serious problem? So we should be asking questions to give a sense of who the serious prospects are. If somebody refuses to answer any of these questions that I've been talking about here, then the honest truth is they're no serious buyer.

Just take it. The serious buyer will answer any of these questions that I've told you to ask. So it's either they're not a serious buyer or you have not done a good job of establishing trust. And so because of that, people are staying locked up. If anybody doesn't trust me that I'm capable, that I know what I'm talking about and that I can help them solve their business problem, If they don't trust me, it doesn't matter how many questions I asked them.

Don't lock up. You'll be thinking this guy's a fast talker, this guy's a 419, this guy's a whatever. There's something here I don't trust. They will lock up. Don't give me any info. So those are just the two options. If you try and ask questions, they're locking up is either they're not serious or they don't trust you. If they don't trust you, that's a separate question for another podcast episode. But let me just stop here because you've gone for close to an hour trying to look at the arrange situation.

And so for those of you who reach out to me and I say let's talk some more on WhatsApp or I have some more questions I need you to answer. This is the reason why because it will affect AB is the effect, it will affect the kind of advice or directions that I'm going to give going forward. So that's all for today folks. And remember, if you have any sales or marketing questions, then bring them to me. You can call, you can SMS, you can WhatsApp me on 08064662140.

Thank you very much for your time and attention. I'll catch you, dear listener, at the next episode.