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Hello and welcome to the show. Today. I'm out and about. I'm on the move. So we expect to hear some noise in the background. Now today the question, OK, someone asked me a question about starting a new business in network marketing and she wanted to know whether to run advertisements to start up the business. And so it got me thinking about a bunch of stuff. So that's what we're going to be talking about today. Are you starting a new business?
Is the new business in network marketing? Should you run advertisements to get this thing going? And I also want to tackle the question of what is network marketing anyway? And especially that final question, what is network network marketing? It's, you know, in this part in Nigeria, it's something that we really, really, we seriously have to consider because I think I was about to head into secondary school when my old man started talking about Tianchi.
Yeah, I think it was Tianchi, Tianchi products and stuff like that. So, you know, before Tianchi, I won't be surprised if there was some multi level marketing, network marketing thing going on in Nigeria. But bottom line is, you know, my father got involved in Tianchi. You know, I considered him a reasonably intelligent guy, you know, was a civil service guy, but still he bought and sold cement, you know, some business things he tried doing, you know,
here and there. And I consider him to be a a, you know, reasonably intelligent fellow. And looking back now, sometimes I, I get angry, you know, not not just my epoxy, you know, but some of his colleagues and, you know, some of my uncles people around like that. Sometimes I feel kind of angry, like OK, maybe, you know, my old man was suave and you know, stuff like that. But you know, it's just one of those things in this part of the world, some of these things are very new concepts, you know,
network marketing, multi level marketing, you know, stuff like that. So most deaf, you know though, you know, though people who are fraudsters, you know, unethical people trying to take advantage of people, you know, things like that. So I think it's one of these things that we just have to be sharp, you know, and be bright about these sorts of things and be properly educated because to be honest, as a kid, secondary school, you know, 90s, you know,
I've seen some stuff, some grown folk taking advantage of. I'll be actually put the responsibility on on my father and all those people who fell for that TNC thing. But anyway, Sir, I'm just saying it's something that we ought to pay attention to. So yeah, those are the questions I'm going to be tackling today. If you're starting a new business in network marketing, should you run advertisements? And then what is a network marketing business?
What's a genuine network marketing business so that folks will not fall for pyramid schemes and all these sorts of stuff? All right, Now this whole thing now about whether you should run advertisements if you're starting a network marketing business, I want to tackle it from like 2 dimensions. So the first dimension that I want to look at it is in recruiting your down line because there are some people who believe in running advertisements to include to recruit your down line.
So let's actually from that angle. And then the second dimension I'm going to look at things from is in selling your actual products. OK, You know what, before I go into these two dimensions, let me even define these things off so that we know exactly what it is that we we are talking about. Because I'm just assuming that if you're listening to this particular episode that you actually know what the network market, network marketing business is or multi level marketing.
But either way, most of the times when you hear network marketing or you hear multi level marketing, that's MLM. So when I hear network marketing or MLM, most of the times people are talking about the same thing. So in my own opinion, a network marketing business or a multi level marketing business is one that involves basically you set up the business so that you can do you take advantage of personal, personal networks.
How do I put it? OK, personal sales, distribution networks, let me put it that way. So in other words, people are going to try and sell a product using people in their personal networks. So you talk to your friends, you talk to your family members, you talk to your associates, talk to mumsy, talk to auntie, talk to boyfriend, girlfriend, talk to everybody. And you're trying to sell this product using your personal networks.
And then how you make money is you get your commissions on sales or you get your commissions on recruitment. So in other words, you sell some of the products, you know, you make some money, you recruit some people underneath you, those people make some sales and you make some money. Now that is how it's a business model. And so there are some genuine big businesses, like multibillion dollar businesses that are built on this model,
you know, like Mary Kay. So the first time I made a podcast episode on multi level marketing and all that, this was one of the examples that I gave because if you want to enter the, the the beauty space, that's that's it's a legit Ave. that you can, you can take advantage of. So the example that I gave was I think Mary Kay and what's his, what's his babe's name now? Kim, Kim Kardashian's baby sister, what's her name? It's not Khloe something Kardashian Shah Henry, Kim Kim's baby sister, 'cause you know,
Kim's baby sister also does something similar to Mary Kay. You know, lipstick. Well, I know there's lipstick. I can't remember if she does powder and eyeliner and all that kind of stuff. So two different models. So Kardashian's baby sister wants to enter that game and you know, she chooses to do it by, you know, being an influencer and you don't influence our marketing basically. But then Mary Kay, of course, when Mary Kay started her own business, it's not as if influencer marketing was out there.
So what Mary Kay chose to do was to do multi level marketing. And the idea was simple. Now for Mary Kay, it was also tied to female empowerment. That's the reason why Mary Kay only uses female agents, because it's about female empowerment. And also practically speaking, you know, I don't know if boys are going to be very good at selling makeup. I don't know, I'm sure it's possible. So since I was around female empowerment now, so that was a whole scope.
Look, we're going to go out or we're going to recruit women within our own network, women who it looks as if, you know, the household three times on their hand. Maybe you're a housewife or something like that. So look, I'm going to take this product. This product is good. You know, it does this, it does this, it does that. It can help, you know, and then you train the women, You give some of them credit facilities. They're able to buy some of the products.
They become distributors. Then they go out and then they sell on behalf of Mary Kay. You give them sales training and then, you know, they put money in their pocket from commissions. Then they now start recruiting people into their downline. So if a woman goes and she recruits maybe her sisters into her downline and her sister's sell some product, she also takes a percentage on it as well. And yeah, so that's how it works.
So it's a business model. It's a genuine business model. There are businesses who do things this way. The only reason why I keep on saying Mary Kay, Mary Kay, Mary Kay is because it's the biggest and I think the most popular example that if I say now, I think every single Nigerian boy or girl should, should grab, well, at least boy or girl. Like from my age, because I heard of Mary as a young chap. And my guess is even if you listening to the podcast now,
you don't know anybody who use Mary Kay, at least you've, you've heard about it. And then there's some woman, if you're a woman, maybe 3540, you know, 50, I'm sure you may have used Mary Kay, you know, when you were younger. So it's a business model. Individuals are going to sell through their personal networks and then it's a matter of direct sales, you know, because you're going to go and approach people one-on-one.
It's not an e-mail marketing something or whatever. Now when people get involved in network marketing, what happens is that you are an independent distributor. What that means is you're not an employee of the company. So people who sell Mary Kay products, they are not being employed by Mary Kay. So it's not the same thing as Tara, is it? Tara, Tara Duro, Tara Duro Toye if I remember correctly, because she also has her own makeup brand.
So if you're selling Tara's stuff, you are an employee of Tara because Tara them, they have shops in Lagos and they have shops in Abuja. So that one is, you know, you're an employee but you're selling for Mary Kay, you're not an employee, you're an independent distributor. So you manage your time, you're a contractor more or less. Then like I said, the dynamics involved are, you know, you have to build a network and build a down line.
The whole point of that is you're trying to increase your selling base. So if I'm selling the product and my Commission is, you know, 1010 K on top each carton of makeup that I sell or whatever. And if I have a down line, my own Commission is I'm getting 1% of that, you know, then I mean, think about it, if I do my own sales and then I get 10K, you know, or something, but then I have 10 other people and I'm getting 11K each of the whatever, you know, then realistically speaking, I can double my income in a fixed period of time.
So because it involves building a network, it now has a multi level tiered structure, which is why people say multi level marketing because I can start and I can talk to mumsy, talk to my brother, talk to my boss at work. And then I now have three people under me. That is my down line. My brother might be really, really enthusiastic and then maybe he talks to 10 people and then maybe my old guy at work is kind of lazy and he only talks to one person.
And then and maybe Mumsy is able to get maybe five people on board. So you can see the structure of the pyramid is now taking the the multi levels is now taking shape. You have me at the top, you have my brother and Mumsy and my old guy at the bottom. And then my brother has now pulled in 10 people. Mumsy has now pulled in three people. Olga at work has now pulled in one person. So 1031, that's 14. So you can see that there's me at the top and then there's 14
people at the bottom. And then I'm making my own commissions when I sell stuff. And then when every single person underneath me sells something, I'm also getting some money as well. So that is the multi level tiered structure, which is the reason why some people say network marketing because well, after all, it is a network. And some people say multi level marketing, but usually means the same thing. Now, the reason why I'm going through all this now is because I want to beg, you know, not beg at a beg.
Because like I said, it's something that makes me very, very angry because I've seen some very intelligent fellows in the 90s with 90s, you know, 2000s with Tianchi and all those other products that came out. And it's something that vexes my soul, you know, I won't like. And these things just keep coming and coming and coming. I'm coming, I'm coming. I don't know why they think that, you know, Nigeria is a ripe ground to come and be starting all this rubbish.
So you know, there are lots of pyramid schemes that are that are going on out here and this is how you tell the difference. I've said it on lots of other podcasts and I'm going to say it again, I'm going to repeat again by the way, the lady who asked me about this thing, she's involved in Orifla in business. I haven't done any research into it, but from the Orifla in people that have been reaching out to me, OK, it looks like this is a genuine multi level marketing thing.
Because genuine multi level marketing businesses, they have an emphasis on product sales. There is something that they are selling, whether it is toothpaste, whether it is cream, whether it is makeup, whether it is water purifier, whether it is wristwatches, whether it is, you know, I've even seen one of them that sells academic courses that is a recruitment in two Swedish universities and things like that. I mean, there are different kinds of multi level marketing schemes that are out there,
whether selling products or whether selling services, because I think education is more like a service, you know, if you're selling for people to go for master's degree and stuff like that. So yes, there are some businesses that that's how some higher education that that's how they promote themselves. So if you can get, you know, I don't know, 20 people to sign up for master's program, each person is paying €30,000, then your Commission is now going to be, you know, X amount.
But bottom line is if it is a genuine multi level marketing thing of the genuine network marketing business, there is going to be an emphasis on product sales or service sales. As in all of us will be selling something on which all of us will be collecting some percentage of something. Pyramid schemes on the other hand, their own is just share mode. Recruits recruit, recruit recruits. The emphasis is not on the thing that we are selling.
The emphasis is on how big we are getting. That's one of the differences that shall just the recruit, just the recruit anyhow. Anyhow, just the recruit, each person that you recruit, you get 5K and then people. So somebody does the math and he said OK, let me recruit 10 people every single week. If I can do it like that by the end of the month, I can get 200 K clean. But of course, you know, you can see this is where things get kind of fuzzy.
You set up something, it looks like they has they has a product. Any bottom line shall just do your due, your, your, your, your due diligence. You know, keep your eyes open, keep your eyes peeled, be sharp. But that's some way of telling the difference. MLM network marketing, They have a product that they are selling. All right. Now back to the main question now, I'm sorry for the detour. It's just I don't like this thing.
Pains me, pains me to my marrow because we moved house recently. So I was packing some of the stuff. So I saw some of pop newspaper and when I saw the TRC thing again, things just make me vex as I was thinking anyway, so what's the question yourself? So should you run advertisements if you're going to start a network marketing business? As I was saying, I will now tackle this thing from 2 dimensions. So #1 your downline.
Now the people that you're going to recruit, should you be advertising to recruit those people? So in the example you saw how I said that I'll go and talk to Mumsy, I'll go and talk to my brother, and now I'll go and talk to my old guy at work. And then three of them now join. So should you be looking, should you be using advertisements to try and recruit people into your downline? So that is number one. Then the second dimension is to sell the actual products.
Now, should I be using advertisements, whether Google or Instagram or whatever now on this thing of recruiting your downline, like in my own case, now if I talk to Mumsy, I talk to my brother, I talk to my old guy at work. Traditionally this thing is about personal networks. So people that, you know, one-on-one, they can go and talk to and get them to see the lights and then you bring them on board. So traditionally that's how it has been, personal networks,
your friends, your family members, your associates, people in church, people in mosque, members of your marketwoman association, members of your full Gospel businessmen association, you know, whatever it is. There are some people who try to run this thing using an advertising strategy. You set up your Instagram account and then you start putting out content and you start advertising so that people who see your content and people who love you and all what not will now join and be part of your downline.
Yeah, there are some people who do that. I haven't seen it done in Nigeria. I know of people who do it in America. So yes, theoretically it's possible. However, if you're going to use an advertising strategy to build your downline, just remember traditionally people talking about Aida, which is attention, interests. What again, attention, interest, desire and then action. So what that means basically is you're going to be using a content marketing strategy to create attention around you and around the idea, to try and stir up interests around you and around the idea.
Try and stir desire around you and around the idea. Then try and get people to take action around the idea and around you and then join your downline. If you're going to do content marketing and if you're going to do an ADA play, attention, interest, desire, action, just know that this is a long term play. You cannot do ADA or content marketing and expect immediate results. So if you want to use advertising to do the whole thing for you, because let's face it, you have to use ADA 1st and build a community online first before you now start sending out advertisements to people.
Because let's face it, you're going to send advertisements to someone. They'll go and check your Instagram handle and they'll see that you only have 3 posts and you only started two weeks. Like who's going to follow you? You look disreputable as hell because you started the business you're trying to post about building wealth and making money through forex and all the wonderful good things that can happen if people join your downline, you know.
But meanwhile, when they open your Instagram handle, they only see they see that you only have 5 followers. Of the five followers, four of them have the same surname as you. And then you only have 3 posts in the last four months. So it takes time. You know when you get immediate results. So if you want to use ads to build your downline, do not be frustrated. If you start in January and then by April you're not seeing results, do not get frustrated.
These things will take time, which is why traditionally it's a matter of personal selling for immediate results. Like Monty just passed through now because she's going to Lagos, she has some stuff to do in Lagos. So she she just breezed through Abuja. I dropped her at the airport not not long ago and you know, so that current thing was involved in multi level marketing now, so when mumsy landed, you know would have started talking.
Oh, mommy, you know, you get one thing like this. You know, I'm doing this, I'm doing this, I'm doing this. You know, you could do this, you could do this. I'll be how you see. I'm she was my son. Are you sure existing legitimate. I'm saying it is now, mommy, don't worry, don't worry. On the way to the airport, we'll talk some more on the airport. Now, you know, now I'll be toasting mommy and trying to wind her up to see how she can drop money and then get involved and this and this and that and that, you know, but you can see like personal selling, direct access, direct network, physical access to my network.
So it's from the talking and toasting that I will get mom she on board is the same thing with my brother. So my brother is, is still in the UK. So, you know, I pick up the phone and then I call him. Hey bro, what's up now I'm involved in this thing, blah, blah, blah. This is the product, this is whatever, these are the advantages. I know you're on the UK, but you know what, if you get involved like this, you know, we can run it like this, we can run it like this, you know, if it makes sense, maybe I get him on board.
But traditionally that is why it is a matter of personal selling, physical networks, direct access, you will get much more immediate results. So if you're going to do thing the physical one-on-one face to face somebody I know pick up the phone. Yes, you can start in January and then expect that by March, April you're now seeing good results and you're now making good money then OK, advertisements now on the angle of selling products, yeah, sure you can run ads.
But if you're going to run advertisements to sell like for you or refilling people now. Somebody corrected me that Ori flame is not about skin. Cause me when I had Ori flame, my mind went to Ori share butter. So I was thinking Ori flame is share butter. But somebody sent me a message and I said Ori is not share butter. So I mean she didn't educate me on what Ori is. But well at least now I know that Ori is not about is not just about skin.
So if you're going to be selling the product, you can run the ads, but then you have to be mindful of some things. Number one is targeting or ICPICP is ideal customer profile or your target avatar or your customer persona or whatever. Targeting Shah, you need to be very clear who is it that we are trying to target with these advertisements? Because the thing with advertising, whether you advertise old school on TV or radio or you advertise on Instagram or Google or whatever,
the number one place that people start losing money is that you get your targeting wrong. So back to the old school thing about targeting. If you want to sell Cadbury products, you want to sell chocolates, you want to sell ice cream, you want to sell stuff like that, but you are targeting it during NTA network news, which is 9:00 PM. Your business will not move because yes, it is the parents who pay for it, but you're advertising when all the children have gone to bed.
Targeting would mean back in the old days anyway, when there was a children's belts, all the children's programs used to be 4:00 PM in the evening until about 6:00, then sports will take over. So targeting will mean that if this is biscuits and ice cream, we should be advertising between 4:00 and 6:00 when the children are watching TV. So the children will now say, oh, daddy, daddy, mommy, mommy, mommy, buy me biscuit, buy me biscuits.
You know, then that's how you make your money. So it's the same thing with TV and radio. It's also the same thing with Instagram. If you're advertising at a time when your audience is not on, is not online, or you're advertising and you're targeting people who are not interested, who don't have the need, you can see how you will start losing money. So targeting is a real big thing here. So, and unfortunately, you know,
some of the Oriflame people that I've spoken to, they don't have a clear idea about who their target audience should be because supposedly Oriflame can help with lots of things. Oriflame can help with people who are suffering from what is it called sleep, something, you know, people who are not sleeping well or people who have stress or people who have body pain. And because of that, the few Oriflame people that have been chatting me up, they think that their market is everybody.
There is no product, that your market is everybody. If you're trying to market to everybody, you will appeal to nobody. So you need to become clear. Am I just going to focus on the people who have problems sleeping and then I will now pick out the Oriflame products that deals with how to have better sleep. Or am I going to pick the people who have problems with acne and then pick the Oriflame products that deal with acne?
Or how am I going to pick people who have body pains or arthritis or whatever and then target only those people who have problems with arthritis and with body pain? The targeting needs to be spot on on point. You can't be marketing to everybody. You are reaching no one and you are wasting money. Then Step 2, I've already hitting on it. If you're going to run advertisements, your messaging has to be around your unique value proposition.
Unique value proposition just means the promise that your product has. Why do people do business with you? Why are people buying your product or your service? That is the UVP. So we do a reflame thing. Now some of these products a reflame, you know, it looks like it does a lot, but you can't run an advert saying are you having problems sleeping? Do you have back ache? Do you have acne? Do you have this do that advertisement is too broad.
So you target we're only going to target one class of people. Then your messaging should also be straight to the point, you know, do you suffer from painful periods and debilitating acne? If so, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You can see that it's a very clear picture. So that young ladies who have, you know, painful period and excruciating skin acne, once they see it, they will relate to it. You'll begin to communicate with somebody.
In fact, that's The funny thing about advertising because you have put the excruciating acne, there can be a young man who doesn't have period problems, but he has excruciating acne and the thing will appeal to him as well. So the messaging has to be tight around the UVP. What I always recommend these people is like, look, consult with your offline. Offline just means the person who recruited you. Truth of the matter is if the person who recruited you has been in this business for like 2-3 years, the person has a clearer idea of who are the best people to buy, when do they buy,
how do they use it, all those things. So your offline is going to be a huge source of information. So consult with your offline, then let's see what else. OK, I've spoken about targeting messaging ahead. Now when people now respond to your adverts, don't just go straight to it is 4005 for 100 grams. Are you going to buy or not? No, that's not you have the you have the conversation. People are coming in inbound from advertisements,
advertisements or however you pronounce it. And then the first thing you do is you go into need analysis or you go into problem based conversations. Somebody says, oh, I saw your advertisement on blah blah blah. How much you say you first of all, you, you need to look for ways to slide into need need analysis. Oh, thank you very much for reaching out, man. We have a number of products which cost anything between 4-5 per 100 grams to 12 K per 100
grams. But before I before I give you a specific quote, we need to have a conversation. Let us know what problems it is that you're trying to solve. You know, how bad is it in my bland, you know, then we can start talking numbers and make a definite recommendation. So, you know, that's the kind of scope, you know, bracket so that people have an idea of a price so that the people person who wants to run will run because some people will hear 4500 per 100 grams.
A person will see a 4-5 for just 100 grams and then they'll ghost you. The people that ghost, no Ala, no problem, let them go. It's too expensive for them. The people who think, OK, it sounds all right, they'll continue to follow you. The people that are following you, then continue, continue talking with them when they're going to need analysis. When did your acne start? When did your pay for period start? What did the doctors say?
What other drugs have you tried in the past? How have you been managing this? This, this are managing that that, that, that, that, that, that that you ask all that history first. It is now then you will know that OK, this is the product I will recommend. This is the product I recommend. This is the product that I will recommend. And besides, when it comes to these sorts of things, you better ask these questions anyway because you know, this thing, all these drugs, I know what not is, you know, plenty,
plenty side effects because one of my cousins, my small cousins decided to get involved in this sort of thing. She sold somebody something and then the person used the thing on the baby. The baby ended up with serious irritations. And next the baby was admitted in the hospital and they were talking about police to come and pick my cousin up and stuff like that. You know, the only thing that said my cousin was that my cousin had mentioned time and time again, this thing is to be used for adults only.
This is not the baby version. And of course some other people had heard of that, you know. So anyway, let me not scare people away from these sorts of businesses. But that's also another reason why you do need analysis. So, you know, go and recommend the products that you know, somebody will take it and then the person's life will be changed forever and not in a good way. So when people now respond to your adverts, it's a matter of going into need analysis or problem based conversations.
When people DM you or when they e-mail stated price range so that you know, we all are sure that we're on the same page. Then of course narrow down, give a product recommendation and then in your selling, remember for these kind of things, testimonials and anecdotal case studies. If you know somebody who has used it, my sister used it. This was the result, her acne cleared up. She used it for two weeks and her skin has been clean.
No more acne for the last 15 years. You know, this kind of testimonials had to really move people and you don't have to give academic case studies, you know, from federal Ministry of Health, you know, some simple case studies that you can push forward will be OK. The truth of matter is the mother organization should have also put some YouTube stuff out there. Anyway, some things can refer to so like I haven't checked Oriflame on YouTube, but I won't be surprised if Oriflame the mother company on has already put out some stuff on YouTube.
So you have to put all these sorts of things there, you know, to make it easier for you to to close the sale. Then when you sell to someone, you also have to be engaged in relationship building, stay in touch with them. The reason why I should stay in touch with them is because you want to know did this product or service work for them? If the thing worked for them, This is the beginning of you building your down line.
Think of it, if somebody has been having serious acne and severe period problems since she was 14 years old and she has had this thing from 14 until 26, then you introduced her to this product and her face has been clear from 26 until 32. Don't you think this would be the ideal person to recruit with her personal testimony and who knows that this thing works for sure to become a part of your downline? So it's from relationship building that you're now going to be recruiting people into the downline and also getting referrals so that you can get more product sales.
So in my own opinion, if you're going to run ads, this is the playbook. Be serious and be real tight with your targeting, your unique value proposition, your messaging. Make it tight. Narrow it down. When somebody reaches out to you, you're going straight to need analysis. Although talk about price, give a range. Don't need to give an exact figure because it's only when you talk to someone that you know whether they need 500
milligrams or whether they need 2000 milligrams or whether they need 100 centilitres or whatever, or however it is that people sell these things, then let's see what else. So testimonials, case studies, YouTube testimonials, relationship building, try to recruit them into your own downline. So that's the scope. So summary, you're getting involved in network marketing. Should you be running ads to recruit your downline?
It can't work, but just give yourself time. It's not going to work in the short term if you're going to do it based on running advertisements, because you're going to have to build online communities first. An Instagram community, a Facebook community, a WhatsApp community, a whatever. You build a community first before you start doing advertising strategy because the community, the content, that is what is going to give you the credibility If you run an ad for people to join your downline,
but then your WhatsApp community only has six members in it, and of the six members, five of them are your family members. It's not going to be inspiring. It won't inspire anybody. So give yourself time or just do the good old traditional thing and start talking immediately to Momsy, to Popsy, to Auntie Sylvia, to Uncle Cletus, to Anti Beatrice, to Deaconess Afubero, to Malam Lamidi, to you know, all the people that you know that are around you.
That's traditional route. So go to traditional route. But definitely you can use adverts to sell the products and I've already spoken about how so no need for me to go into that again. Well please, I am begging all of you, for some reason these companies will not leave Nigeria alone. Maybe you know a reflame is legit like people are saying but these things come and go forever. Living has come and gone. Now it is a reflame that is popping.
Next year, who knows what else would be popping from my youth. He was Tianshi. These people will keep coming. I'm coming. I'm coming. Please open your eyes, do the research, be sure that is a genuine business so that you don't end up like my father and some of his colleagues and other people who are taking advantage of. I know some of you will say no, your father was an adult. Nobody took advantage of him. And yeah, I guess, I guess you can make that argument that, you know, people who fall for these things, you know, not their fault.
They're the ones that did themselves. Maybe, maybe I don't know, but I would like it makes me angry because I know a refilling will come and go. Another one will come and I'll be like OK, Disney UK on the block. Anyway, I've said the main thing that I wanted to say. So let me just wrap it up here. If you'd love to connect for a strategy session, the business audit, you have questions you want me to answer. The phone number is 08064662140.
Country code is +234. That's my WhatsApp number. Those of you who are not Nigerian, that's the country code. Then connect with me on LinkedIn. The name to look for is Tave Shima Ayede. See what else? OK, I have a YouTube channel, same name as well so you can get all this material. So thanks for your time and attention. I'll catch you guys in the next episode.