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Hello and welcome. My name is Tavishimah Ayede. I'm the host of the podcast that I'm making today's recording at home, so there will be some noise in the background. Now today on the podcast, we're going to look at how to do outcome based selling for your product or your service. Again, what we're going to look at today is how to do outcome based selling for your product or your service. What does this mean? Why should you be paying attention?
How can this help you make more money? These are the sorts of things I'm going to be talking about today. Now, if you're interested in these kinds of business issues, then subscribe on Spotify, YouTube, Apple or any player of your choice. And if you'd love to connect, call, SMS or WhatsApp me on 08064662140. So again today on the podcast, how to do outcome based selling for your product or service. Now let's look at a couple of definitions.
As usual, when I try to define something over here on the podcast, I'm not trying to be academically precise and I'm all trying to be technically correct. So yes, you will go to some website and you'll go to some business books and you will find a much more comprehensive definition. But I'm just trying to define things in a way that will be easy to remember because my focus over here is easy to remember. Easy to understand means easy to do increases the likelihood that you're going to do this thing later on.
So outcome based selling, that's just any, how will I put it? Now the strategy, if we can put it that way where we try to change focus from the product or the service when say we shift to what it's doing for the customer. I repeat, any kind of strategy where we're not focusing on the product or the service, but we're focusing on the results. What does this thing do for the customer? This is important because the average Niger person is trying to sell the thing, the thing,
the thing, just emphasizing the thing. For instance, I'm having a chat with someone right now in my inbox, and what this guy does is crypto. Yeah, as usual, crypto and algorithmic trading. So we just started YANI last night. Now this morning already the guys, you know, crypto, crypto, crypto guys just sending me messages, Bra bra, case study, case study. And then he's trying to explain everything. Computer node, this, that, that,
that, you know, and for those of you in the tech space, I've been telling you guys since that, look, you guys, you love your tech, I understand, but you get too caught up in these sorts of things. I mean, at the end of the day, who are you selling to? You're selling to ordinary people like me, you know, coming to tell me about computer node. Yes, I'm smart enough and I know the computer node is so let's just pretend that you know I'm I'm the average Nigerian computer node.
How is that why I'm going to buy from you? So you think the more you continue Bra bra bra platform platform web three, Web 3 computer node computer node algorithmic algorithmic this that that instead of paying attention to your product or to your service, he said be thinking in terms of what it does for the customer. So if you're looking for people who want to hammer, who want to hammer big, that is the language that you should be speaking.
You should be speaking hammer, hammer, hammer and crypto is the way that we help you. Hammer. Not saying computer node, computer node buckling, this compatibility, this compliability, this Web 3, this state-of-the-art, this that, that, that. Well, yeah, you'll be able to overwhelm some people who would buy just based on that because you'll be like, man, this guy, this guy is smart. The English that he's dropping everything like oh more, this might be a good deal, but the average person, to be honest,
you're just overwhelming them with a bunch of beers with a bunch of nothing. So for the average Nigerian business person or whoever is listening to this podcast right now, instead of talking on features, specifications and things like that, what you should be doing, you should be paying attention to the results, tangible results that the customer is going to achieve by using a product or a service. I repeat, if you're selling mobile phone, instead of saying 2023, sorry, 2025 Samsung, blah,
blah, blah, Bluetooth high speed, something this, not that, blah, blah, blah, just pay attention to what you think the measurable results the person will achieve and then hop on that. So if you think this babe wants to be the envy of all her friends, then I like the fact that you know, is the latest. You know, he just dropped. It's only in America that they're selling it now. This is the one that that what's her name?
Kardashian. Sorry, this is the one that Kim Kardashian was using in her last video. That's what you highlight instead of saying Bluetooth for inter interoperable connectivity. Something, something, something. So pay attention to who you're talking to instead of talking about features, specifications and all these things of your product focus. What is the result that this person will get? This kind of person that I'm talking to, this level of person that I'm talking to?
What are the kind of benefits that these kind of people typically enjoy from this kind of thing? And that is what you should be emphasizing. In other words, outcome based selling is customer centric. You have to be looking at the customer who is in front of you. It's not about your pitch, it's not about your product. It's not product centric or is customer centric. There's a potential customer in front of me. Who is he?
Who is she? How can I read them? How can I understand them? How can I figure out what they're going, what's going on? How can I figure out what they like? Oh, this is the thing that they like. Let me begin the twist and the truth and the prod. And they emphasize this thing because it's what they like. So this customer centric approach involves you becoming a consultant or a trusted advisor. That's the reason why on this podcast I keep saying, yes, we are all business people, but when it comes to setting, let's pretend that we are doctors because the first thing a doctor says is, oh, hello young man,
how can I help you today? And then they listen. Based on that, they will now say, OK, young man, it looks like you have a subdue, subdoroma, hematoma. And because of that, we have to amputate your left leg. You know, the doctor doesn't just come and start saying amputation, amputation, amputation. Even if he believes amputation solves all problems, he will listen to you first. Based on what you will say, he will now say, OK, what we need to do is we need to amputate your left leg.
But they will listen before they make a recommendation. So understand the customer's goals. What are they trying to achieve personally? If you're talking to someone who is the business person, what are they trying to achieve business wise? What are the goals that they have? What are the challenges that they're facing? What are the desired outcomes that they're looking for? Those are the things that you will now be stressing when you're talking to them.
So the key characteristics basically or the key steps of outcome based selling is to focus on why, not the what? So don't focus like this guy who is telling me, you know, algorithmic trading. So, so, so, so platform, this integration, this backlink computer node, this dot dot dot dot. He's focusing on the what? This is what he has for sale. He has what he thinks is a revolutionary AI trading platform. So he's focusing on the what,
the what, the what he needs to focus on the why. If anybody comes on this revolutionary platform, why are they here? Are they here because they want to feel smart? Are they here because they want to feel like they have a bunch of money? Are they here because they want to feel like they're cutting edge? And then that is what you emphasize because there's some Nigerians who like to feel like they know also of their cutting edge.
So for that person, that's what you emphasize. Now, Omar, you sound very sound, very knowledgeable. OK, Yeah, we have the cutting edge this, cutting edge that. What other protocols are you playing with? What other languages do you know what are that is whatever that. And you continue to emphasize cutting edge, cutting edge, cutting edge, cutting edge because you're being customer centric. The person that you're talking to, his own concern is cutting edge, cutting edge.
Now for the person who wants to hammer, who wants to blow, who wants to double his money, that's why you emphasize AI algorithmic trading platform potential to double your money, triple your money, double your money, triple your money, double your money, triple your money because you're being customer centric. You're looking at what the person wants to get out of the situation and you are advising. Sorry, you're emphasizing precisely that.
So focus on the wider person is here, not what is it that you have to sell. And your pitch basically is, oh, is this what you want? This is how my product or my service will help you achieve this thing that you're looking for. Simple. Now, this involves the process of deep discovery and understanding. Discovery in sales just means you're asking questions to try and understand, like what's going on? Who is this person?
What's the problem? It's a way of doing research. When you're talking to people, you're asking insightful questions, You're trying to uncover their specific needs, you're trying to figure out some pin points, you're trying to figure out their goals. But this thing is conversational as per just talking, just flowing, just like how you're listening to me and I'm talking right now. That's how we're supposed to be in the customer's mind.
You'll be as if this guy is just making casual conversation. But you, you know what's up. You're trying to elicit some information. You're trying to understand exactly what this person wants. So we need to do discovery. We need to understand who we're talking to. Then again, value based selling, sorry, outcome based selling is value driven. And remember, whenever we say value on this podcast, we don't mean from your end because we all have different reasons.
We all have different reasons to think something is valuable. You focus on value as the other person sees fit. So for me, my Jiaomi 13 C be rocking this phone for, I don't know, it's almost like 3 years, four years for me. It's a valuable piece of equipment. For some other person, this phone is not valuable because this phone is 4 years old as far as they're concerned. Like why should you be talking about, you know, why should you be talking about Barack Obama in the time of Donald Trump as a now and don't pass.
So for some people, this phone that I'm using is a relic, is dead, no value. You've used all the value you finish. But for me, then I'm looking at things from a very practical point of view. The thing still makes calls. The thing is still fine and sleek. I have more memory than I would ever need. The processing power on this thing is fantastic. I mean, I don't care that this thing is 4 years old for me, there's still value.
So you can see how if you you're selling a mobile phone, the value is not according to you, it's according to the person. So if you're with the person who is seems to be thinking in terms of what is trendy and fashionable and or whatnot, you better not bring a Xiaomi 13 C, You better bring the 16C or whatever the correct model is now. But for somebody who is looking at things from a very practical point of view, who can be bothered about names, trends and or whatnot, then or more, you better try and figure out what technical specs this person needs in a phone and recommend it accordingly.
So if it is Alcatel, that means the specifications sell the Alcatel. It's not a matter of what it is that you you value. So value driven, outcome based selling is value driven. You're looking at the customer. What does the customer value? What will be a good ROI for the customer? Return on investment. Return on investment just means I put in X amount. Well, traditionally when you say return on investment, it means I put in X amount.
How much money did I get back out at the end of the day? But nowadays, you know, we can see ROI for anything. Like I invest my time here, I invest my money here, and then these are the results I get. That's why I hear, you know, I'm no longer in the dating field. So I don't know. But I hear that nowadays boys have started asking girls, what do you bring to the table? So, you know, that's kind of like an ROI conversation, Like,
OK, no problem. We'll be dating or be walking towards marriage, but you might what are you bringing to the table? The boy wants to know what's the ROI if I invest my time and my resources in this relationship was the one that will come back out. By the way, my own opinion. I think that's a very useless question. Boys should not be asking what do you bring to the table, but that's a separate conversation. So my own opinion show if you're a boy that wasn't a girl, you're not asking how what do you bring to the table guy?
Anyway, let me leave that one. So that's our way now, because you're going to be taking this kind of approach trying to figure out the customer, what it is that they value. You will find that you are going to be building long term relationships when you do outcome based selling. And that is good because remember that the focus of selling is we're trying to get somebody to buy today, to buy repeatedly over time, stick with us for a very long time and also refer people to us while they're here.
And we can only optimize that if we invest in long term relationships. So this part is good. Also it helps to build trust, it helps to build loyalty. So summary I have been saying one thing in 20 different ways, but I hope you guys are getting it now when you hear outcome based selling, basically just trying to sell the vision of the future or the vision of the reward that the person will get when they use your product or your service.
So just like this chap who is in my who's trying to kill my phone now because I checked guy sent another 24 messages. If nobody say you know, I don't want to be rude. I don't block the guy since he doesn't know that all the reports he's sending, I'm not reading them. So what is what happens when you fall in love with your your product or your service? You'll continue to talk about the product, the feature, the product, the feature, the product, the feature.
Meanwhile, 99% of the people that you're reaching out to, they don't send you for for crap. They don't instead of blasting people's inbox saying bye bye bye, product feature, product feature. I'm the best, I'm the brightest, I'm the newest, I'm the latest. I'm the this, I'm the that engage somebody in the conversation and try and figure out what they're trying to achieve. When you figure out, then you can start going into that whole into the whole thing.
Now for those of you who watched to kill a Monkey, where if he met Amanda, I was talking to Amanda trying to get to know her. And at the end of the day, you know, he asked straight up what she wants out of a relationship and she told him that I want my bank account to rise. And if he say is that it? She say yes, it's OK, no problem. More they go. And that's how relationship started because he spent time trying to find out from Amanda,
what is it that you want in a man? What do you want from me as a *** So it's the same thing. You don't go there saying I'm the biggest, I'm the best, I'm the brightest, I'm the newest, I'm the smartest. He asked her what does she want? She said stimulate my bank account, let the thing rise. And then the relationship started. Another woman will tell you that on the God fearing man who's going to raise my children. Well, if you're not a God fearing somebody, that's the point at which you exit.
If you're a God fearing somebody, you say, ah, my sister, do you know that? That is what I read this morning when I opened my Bible to the book of first John chapter 3. And then conversation continues and you're on the right course. So as the same in relationships. So as it is in business. In fact, let's look at the case study. I'm not waste your time because we've already done 17 minutes. So the case study now that I
want to use is this guy the Joel brand. I mentioned him I think last week, the reason why I'm using the job brand, he's in the all, I call it again, customized athletic wear, customized gym wear. Now, the reason why I'm using him, quite frankly, is just because that's the last serious business conversation that I had last week. That's minus the coaching engagement that I have for my other clients. But I've been talking about those ones, you know, too much.
So let me just talk about somebody else. So now the job brand is in customized athletic gym wear. So excuse me, so now somebody in that space, now who what they do is they sell gym clothes, gym short knicker, gym bra, gym tracks, gym sweat band and all these kind of things. The traditional approach that most people would do, the old school approach is the salesperson will be talking about the gym wear itself. We'll be talking about the the thing, the what the person will be saying.
Our jerseys are made with moisture, moisture absorbing fabric, reinforced stitching. We can do sublimating printing. We can personalize with any logo. The person will be talking about features, features, features, features, features. Now the problem with this approach, like I've said, is that you're focusing on the product itself and not the person's needs. If everybody you talk to, you start saying that, oh, our jerseys are made with the best fabric from Italy, absorbed moisture, reinforced stitching,
we can print logo, no fading. Something, something, something like you're just trying your luck, you're doing, you're shooting in the dark. You might hit on something that the person's like or you might not. Funny thing is, even when you talk about the one that the person is like, you won't even know because you're not asking questions. So if you're on this space, don't focus on the product. We know you are proud of your product.
What's all boasted about how good your product is? Do outcome based selling. An outcome based selling approach would be to focus on the things that this person wants to achieve. This person who you're talking to? What did you want to achieve by buying gymware? So the discovery that you will go through is to start asking questions about the person's fitness level now or the fitness level that the person wants to achieve.
So you now know what to recommend or the person's style goals. Because for those of us who used to go gym small back in the day, we know that the clothes that you need, if you're doing kettlebell workout or high intensity training, it's not necessarily the same kind of clothes you need. If you what you're going to be doing is lots of stationary work, you know, with, you know, with presses and curls and you know, stuff like that.
So it depends. Just like the person who's going to be stretching and doing yoga, you know, you dress a certain way, not the same way that you would dress if your workout routine is you're using the treadmill, the treadmill all the time. So it depends before you start saying buy this, this is the greatest, this is the best, it's the newest. It is from China. This is the one that they wore in 2024 Olympics. This is the one that has reinforced teaching.
No, no, no, no. Ask the person questions about them, their fitness level now their fitness level where they wants to go. By the way, you also have to about ask about their style because people when we go to the gym, you like to show up, correct? You have to you want to look on point. Excuse me, you know nowadays going to the gym is not just health and fitness again is also hookup. You know, you see your life partner is also you know you might see business partner.
So you have to come correct. So ask about fitness goals, ask about style goals. You're trying to focus on a personal style, focus on specific needs, understand their unique situation so that you will recommend the bra top that she will like or the kind of track pants that he will like, that they will love and that they will use. So there are different kinds of discovery questions you can ask. Now on this podcast, whenever we say discovery questions, we mean questions about the product.
Two classes of questions you should be asking your sales process, discovery. And what's this other one? Now, whether I keep forgetting discovery. And OK, oh Marshall, I've written this thing down. So give me one second. Qualification and discovery. So qualification questions, discovery questions. Discovery questions are questions about the problem. Qualification questions are questions about the person. So you should be asking questions about the problem and the person.
In fact, let me stop saying qualification and discovery because sometimes I forget. And then let me not confuse you, especially if this is the first time. So let's just say questions about the person, questions about the problem. So you should be asking questions about the problem. Thank you very much, Sir, for reaching out to so, so, so and so. Yes, you want to buy bra top. But before I make any recommendations, I'd like to ask you a couple of questions.
I hope that's OK. So we can recommend the best stuff for you, especially since if you've checked on Instagram, you see that over the last four years we've done over 320 designs. So before I recommend the one that works for you, you have to answer a couple of questions. So what kind of workout do you do? Are you doing high intensity training or you're one of these yoga people? You're into yoga? Oh bro, the way I'm seeing you is as if you like weightlifting.
Oh, you're talking about losing weight. So are you going to be doing lots of running in this gear? Make it conversational, but ask the question. This is questions about the problem. So we're trying to figure out that kind of workout. It is based on the answer, you will now be able to say this kind of material is not everybody that you now go straight to moisture, moisture absorbing material. It depends. For some people that like to run and maybe they like to run first thing in the morning and maybe first thing in the morning is very, very cold.
You know, you might be looking for material that provides insulation. So it depends on what the person wants to do. It's not every single guy that shows up and says I want to buy a track trouser for gym. They start recommending one kind of track trouser for them. You ask them question, the guy who is going to go and lift weights in the gym, the track trouser you sell him is different. The one who wants to be running the track trouser you sell him is different.
The one who wants to go and play badminton, the track trouser you sell him is different. So questions about the problem. Then you also ask questions about their biggest frustration with off the rack where now that is where this guy Joel brand comes in, because Joel the Joel brand, if you remember, if you listen to that episode, he sells customized gym wear. And that's because there are some of us, you know, who have irregular body proportions.
And so if we go and buy the one that is on the rack, you know, it's not going to be it's not going to work. Like you mentioned, a customer who he can buy something if it's, but the moment he raises up his hand, the thing will rise to half of his stomach. So in other words, for that kind of person, he needs gym clothes where you add several inches on the bottom. Some of you say, why is that important? It's very important when you're playing football with your guys,
you know, you're trying to signal somebody that you're free. You raise your hand, all of a sudden everybody can see your potbelly. Now these things matter, may not matter for you because you know, maybe you're young and in shape now, but you know, for some of us these things matter. So you ask them all the ones you've been buying off the rack was was your biggest frustration or what don't you like is it perfect? I'll be the support is not correct.
Well, this support thing is a question that most likely you ask women. So back support and then also support with the all I put in now with the you understand the one in front or is it that the style is unflattering. Yeah, like my mom, for instance, because for me, I'm like, you know, just buy workout clothes, let's go. My mom would say no, this one is not flattering. I'm like, which one is flattering? Is it not to work out, just buy anything that's good.
She will say no, she wants to buy something flattering as I will now waste time 45 minutes just looking for the one that's flattering. So when you go through this, it shows the customer that you understand their pain points, and it would now allow you to highlight the bespoke one, the correct one that would be good for them. Also ask them about their sense of style. So what's your sense of style? Do you like bright colours?
Are you minimalist? Are you bold? Are you trendy? Are you like the classic silhouettes? Simple things. One thing that Joe Brand does which is good, he asked people for to send. He asked people for photos. OK, do you have a couple of photos? Can you send? OK, you saw it on somebody's profile, can you show me? OK, This is the inspiration that we're working with. You can see you're not getting the information that you need to make a tailored recommendation.
Or you ask the person, are you looking for a specific feature like no ball pockets? Funny enough, you know, my wife is one of those babes. For her, the thing just has to have pockets. And for some reason when people are designing women clothes, they don't like putting pockets. I don't know why. So for men, they give us pockets 2IN front, 2IN back, but women, they don't give them pockets. So my wife is one of those pocket people and Wayne, it makes sense because you can't be strolling on the streets.
You're doing your workout and then you're now holding your phone in your hand. So my wife would like one of those ones that has pockets maybe in front like zip pocket. You zip put the phone there, zip it back. Then that part is water resistant so that the sweat won't damage your phone. I know some of you who have never sold gym gym clothes before. You'd be now thinking, is it this complicated? Well, it depends. If you just want quick money and you don't care about return business, then no, it doesn't have to be this complicated.
Look at the person, go to the rack, pick the one you think makes sense, give to them, collect their money, send them on their way. If you are hoping to build a loyal customer, somebody that will stick with you for a very long time. I appreciate the level of business, the level of care that you bring to your business, then yes, make it this complicated because what we're trying to do. So we're trying to make sure that by the time this woman leaves this shop and by the time she goes and does the workout,
if anybody has sign there, what do you buy this issue? Say look, you know what? Pick up the phone call Joe, he was fantastic. He recommended this because of this and that that that that that he took his time and listened to me and make sure that he recommended the best thing for me. Call Joe. He's the guy. That is what we're trying to achieve when we're doing outcome based selling. So if it's too much work for you, like I said, and just ignore the process.
Look at her up and down, try and guess the kind of person you think she is, then just give her anything. Then also you need to ask questions about the person of course. Try and set your expectations. So in this case, you know, I would say it. Now look, boss, Madam, what we do here is we have bespoke items and they're typically more expensive than mass produced ones. The reason why I will say that early is because I want to establish clearly and be sure that when we're talking pricing that our expectations are aligned 100%.
Say, oh really? How expensive do you mean? That's about why I now say, well, typically off the rack, if you're going to buy joggers from other places, you can find joggers, you know that cost anything between 18 to 12 K. But because of our own customizing features here, you know, our joggers start off at 25 K and could go as high as anything else. I'm 42K. Are you OK with that? I want to have that conversation quick. So the person who thinks that is expensive, wrong.
Because there's some people who say other people are selling 12 to 18, even that 12 to 18 is expensive, not to talk of your own. You know what, let me go down. Let me go to bed down, select, bring that up early. Let her remove herself from the equation that you're too expensive. That's one approach of handling pricing and budgeting. So that's the one that I recommend for most people because I really think there's no point in having a 45 minute conversation with somebody.
At the end of 45 minutes, they say you're too expensive or you invest in 3-4 weeks building a relationship with someone. At the end of four weeks, they say you're too expensive. If I'm too expensive, I want to know that on day one, I want to know within maybe 5-6 minutes of the conversation so that if we're going to get married, if we're going to do this business relationship, let's go ahead and do it. If we're not going to do it,
let's know from the beginning. So excuse me, have a quote. So yeah. So questions about the person. I try and bring up the budgeting early, then also ask about timelines. That's part of the conversation that Joel and I were having because remember, Joel was his crew is being overworked because there's him, there's a team of four, and because he's in high demand, he's having problems with meeting the overworking themselves basically.
So the timeline conversation, OK, this thing you want to buy, is it for an upcoming event? Is it for a specific list or for that? You have to ask them because constant designs take time to produce. So you need to figure out what their timelines are so you will know how you will now confirm, confirm it, blend it, manage it with your own timelines. So manage people's expectations and ensure that you can deliver on time.
So you need to ask them. So are you interested in specific design or are you one of those people who likes to have a say in the design process? Because there's some people who just say, look, I've given you the general whatever, you know, go and do whatever means this. And there's some people who will say, you know what, just start, boy, you have the first draft. Let me see, please, in case there's anything that I need to change.
So I need to ask, by the way, charge accordingly. If you're involving people on a very one-on-one on one level like this, you need to charge accordingly because when you're spending more time on those kinds of people designs. So in the factor that into your pricing. If you're one of these people who does bespoke. But either way, you can see that you have to ask questions about the problem and ask questions about the person.
This is what we do in outcome based selling. So now based on everything that the person has been selling, I mean, sorry, I say selling based on everything that the potential customer, potential client has been saying, you will now know how to tailor your sales pitch because the outcome is different. So in other words, if me and my wife, we go into a place to go and buy gym wear, you sell gym wear. You can't just size us up and go and pick the one that you think this one will fit you Orga.
This one will fit you Madam. No, Ask other Orga questions. Separate ask Madam question. Separate the one that you recommend to Madam and one that you recommend to Orga. You know will differ according to the answers that they give. If Olga wants to be going to the gym, he's not going to be doing cardio, he's only going to be doing weights. The things you recommend to him are different from if Madame is going to the gym, she is not going to be doing weights, she's only going to be doing cardio and she's only going to do treadmill 45 minutes then rowing machine 45 minutes.
The recommendation will be different. It will not just be a matter of OK, this is husband and wife, let me get them the same thing that has matching colours. Orgasm will be big size 42, then Madam zone will be small size 26. Ask questions, figure out what they're trying to achieve. Then make yourself speech based on the outcome that they want to achieve. So Olga, because you won't go and be pumping weights, I recommend this.
I recommend this. I recommend this. This will make you comfortable. This will mop up sweat. This will help for grip. This will do for you know, you just do your sales speech. I say, oh God, This is why I recommend this. Give it to him. Madam, you're going to be running cardio typically lots of sweat, blah, blah, blah. So I'm going to recommend this simple stitching. It's not going to irritate your legs. You know, it has give, it has this, it has Velcro.
IB doesn't have Velcro. You know those of you who are in the fitness space, you know I'm just making stuff up. But even the fitness space, you know how it is that you say it then you just sell it to Madame like that. But remember, make sure, I hope you had the pricing conversation first so that if you are going to price won't be a matter of what they had in mind was 18K per one. What you had in mind was a 36K per one if you had the pricing conversation upfront and they know that what you have in mind is that the seascape and one maybe you can now be pricing up and down and maybe you now end that they will take it at 32 K
piece instead of that 36 that you called. So this in the summary is outcome based selling. If this is your first time listening to a podcast and well, I hope I've been able to explain it properly. If I haven't and I've confused you, then, you know, send me a text message, a WhatsApp message. That's the reason why I give my phone number at the beginning and at the end of every episode. So that's it. And that's all for today.
Remember, if you'd love to connect, you can call, you can SMS, you can WhatsApp me on 08064662140. Thank you very much for your time and attention. I'll catch you next time. Same place in your headphones or in your speakers.