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Hello and welcome to the show. I am making today's recording at an undisclosed location, but yes, I'm outside. So you're going to get some interruptions in the background. Now, this is your first time of listening to the podcast. The goal of this show is free business education. So I'm not here to tell you about my whereabouts. So if you're looking for those sorts of things, sales, marketing, business generally, Shah, you are in the right place.
And when you're done, please share, promote and talk about the show so that your friends and family members in Nigeria and abroad can benefit from the questions that we tackle. They can do that by subscribing on Spotify, YouTube, Apple, or any player of their choice. And you, dear listener, the person who is listening now or you have discovered the show right now, if you have any sales and marketing questions by the time we're done, then bring them to me.
Don't be scared. You can call, you can SMS, you can WhatsApp to 08064662140. Now today on the show, I'm going to be treating a question from someone who belongs to a WhatsApp community, that I belong to a mutual WhatsApp community. And the WhatsApp community is built around point. Sorry, I say point podcasting. Yeah, podcasting and voice acting. That's where the mistake happened. I need to say podcasting and voice at the same time.
So podcasting and voice acting. So it's an on, it's a WhatsApp community. Now there are some of us who are trying to make a living in Nigeria and different parts of the world by using our voice, by using our skills behind the microphone. And so that's the reason why I joined the community because, well, I'm not really a podcaster per SE, because one of the people in the group person told me that little guy, you're not a podcaster.
What you do is you just record voice notes and you put them on the Internet and you give it a title and it's like a nice one, nice one, correct. So yeah, I'm not really a podcaster. I just create voice notes and I throw them up on the Internet and I put a title. So actually what I do is I am a business consultant. I do sales and coaching and I help with strategy and applications, You know, when people are trying to figure out how is that I'm going to grow my business.
Those are the sorts of problems that I solve. And then I use the podcast primarily to drum up business. So because of that, now I woke up one day and I said that's to be a community of other people that are like me. Let me join this community. Let me learn from them. And that's the benefit of joining these sorts of communities. So if you haven't joined one of these communities, I think in my last episode, I, I spoke about joining LinkedIn groups, you know, things like that.
So whether you're on Facebook, LinkedIn, whatever, you know, reach out, you join some of these communities, you, you learn a thing or two. It's nice to know what your peers, other people in the space are doing to drum up their business or improve their craft so that you can do the same thing. So that's how I joined this group and it's the APVA, that's the association of professional voice over something podcasting, you know, whatever APVA.
So podcasters, voice actors, radio show hosts, you know, ordering. So somebody threw up a question in the group. So one more. Let me open the message now. Let me read this. Let me read the question of everything. So this was the message. This was the question. So the lady said good evening fam, I need your honest advice on something. So I have two Instagram accounts and I'm trying to figure out which one to focus on professionally as I build my brand as an actor, writer, host,
and podcaster. One of the accounts has 301 followers. It has more engagement bracket, better views and reactions, and it carries most of my major milestones like my podcast launch, my nomination and award, my hosting job last year, and the advocacy content for boy child and men's mental health. Also my graduation from the film Academy. But the issue is it is not well organized, the feed looks scattered and lacks a proper structure or visual cohesiveness.
It feels like a personal archive, not a professional portfolio, and it has a very slow growth rate. The second account has 384 followers. It is. It used to be my business page, but I've been thinking of turning it into my main professional account. Something more clean, structured and intentional. My plan was to build my brand from the ground up on that page with proper visuals and storytelling, but it currently doesn't have the past content and engagement, and engagement isn't great yet, but it has a rapid growth rate than the other.
So I'm torn. Should I go back and restructure the old 301 account even if it looks scattered now, since it already has my history and engagement? Or do I start afresh and build the 384 account into something fresh, organized, and intentional, even if it doesn't yet carry my past efforts? Or is there a way I can migrate the posts from the old 301 followers to the new 384 followers? I would love your thoughts. I really want to make a decision that supports my long term growth.
Thank you. So that was a message, very long message. But then even though she was not trying to ask for sales, you know, some principles still apply If you're in a group and you're trying to get some help. If you want people to answer your question, you know, just get straight to the point. If it's too long, everybody's going to read and proffer solutions because you know that everybody has their own horseshoe. Everybody has the thing that is on their head.
So you want an an honest response. Just keep the question short. And then on a side note, when you're a member of a community, I would advise that you try to give value first in the community before you start asking for stuff because I see that a lot. Some people join the community and then it's always oh, me, me, me, me, me. I need this. I need this, me, me, me, me, me, me. As in like when you enter a community, first of all, sit down, see what's going on,
survey the land. Then you now try and be of value. That's the reason why some of these groups, you notice some people say, oh, I need this, I'm trying to hook up this. And then people rush and they support. And then there's some other people that say, oh, I need this, I need this. Everybody's just quiet, you know, come and say they're doing favoritism or tribalism or whatever. No, no, no, it's not tribalism. It's just that the other people,
when they get involved in the community, are trying to deliver value first. So when everybody sees her arching, they do need something. Or cheer maker, she needs something. You know, people chip in because they know that. OK, You know, we've been seeing how we've been seeing him like he's a correct guy. She's a correct babe. Where do I take her? Nobody will say pim. And in this case, to be honest, nobody said pim. That's how the message just remained so too long and probably hasn't been delivering enough value in the group.
So just one side note when you enter these groups, then let's see what else. OK, some of you I said it's female, but some of you will say, ah, but the person said my brand has a as an actor. So just to let you guys know that yes, actually in the the old way of talking about it, you just used to say actor for either party. So when I was in primary school not long ago, yes, the term used to be used interchangeably. By the time I was entering into secondary square, I noticed that people now started saying actor and actress, you know, But growing up, I just knew actor only.
So, yeah. So yes, we're still dealing with a female. All right. Now, in this case, let's go straight now into the nitty gritty. So in the summary now, and I'm sure obviously you've seen the reason why I want us to tackle this question today is because lots of us are trying to grow our business using Instagram and we face some of these issues. I have two 3-4 accounts. One account engagement is high, the other account the engagement is rubbish.
But on the one that The thing is high, I've been talking about this. On the one that The thing is low, I've been talking about this. What is the way forward? What should I do? Which Instagram handle should I pay more attention to to boost my business? So these are questions that we ask ourselves all the time. So the person I was asking this question, she wanted to, there are a couple of questions that she wanted answers #1 Which Instagram account should she focus on professionally for her brand as an actor, writer, host and podcaster?
That's the number one question. These two accounts which one should I focus on #2 she wanted to know should she restructure the existing three O one account? When I say 3 O one account one that she has 201 followers, should she restructure that three O one account? It has more engagement and more milestones. But The thing is the account is disorganized. So she wants to know should I restructure it? Should I clean it up?
Should I make it nicer? Then another question is that other account, one that is 384 that is growing rapidly but has poor engagement, should I build up that one even though it's growing fast but there's no engagement? Then she now wanted to know is there a way to migrate posts or migrate followers from the three O 1 to the 384? And she wants to know basically which decisions would be best to support her long term growth.
Now, as usual, whenever I'm tackling any of these questions, I come at it from a sales and business development perspective. So if any of you reach out to me in the future and you have these kind of questions like, oh, I have this Instagram handle, I have this TikTok handle, but this handle is performing better than that handle. This one has better engagement that I don't know. Which one should I pay more attention to?
Which one should I grow? Which one should I kill? I will always answer these questions from a sales and business development perspective. Which one is going to help with sales? Which one is going to help with business development? Which one is going to help with the kind of traction that would eventually lead to sales or opportunities where we can have selling and business conversations That is going to be my guiding like when I'm tackling these sorts of questions.
So let's see, let's see, let's see all I put this now. OK, so now if I want to look at long term growth, whatever this lady does, or in this situation, whatever it is that you do, remember one thing. If the point of your Instagram handle is to monetize engagement in the future, remember, if this is the point, I'm trying to get money from the engagement. Because if your goal is different, if your goal is you're trying to preach a particular gospel, then all this advice does not apply.
But if the goal is you want to get money from the engagement on your Instagram handle, then what you should be doing is you have to nurture the handle between these two, 3 or 4. You have to nurture the one that has the relevant audience. Let me repeat. If the goal is to get money from this Instagram handle because you are selling something, in this case she is selling podcasting, public speaking, acting, all those things, she needs to nurture the one that has the relevant audience.
That is the beginning. It's not about how clean the handle is or the you know is where is the relevant audience that I'm selling something to? Because you can't sell something to an irrelevant audience, no matter how large it is. You can have a large audience, but if it is irrelevant to your purposes, what you do, what you're trying to sell, you cannot sell anything to them. You cannot monetize Shishi. So the beginning is when I am looking at these Instagram accounts and I'm looking at the things that I'm trying to sell,
where is the relevant audience? If you have a community online on Instagram or Facebook groups or whatever, and group has 5 million people, but the thing that joins them is all of them like French cuisine. They like French food, and they're gathered because of French food. But you are a chef and your specialty is epic cuisine. There is a problem because once in a while you'll be talking about options on the menu that has dork that has dork meat.
The problem is people who like French cuisine, if they see bingo on the menu, they will think it is a violation of animal rights. So if you have two groups, one is 5 million strong, but they like French cuisine. The other one is only 5000 strong but is built around ethic cuisine. If you are a chef who is selling ethic cookery and once in a while you have diog meat on the menu, then please focus on the one that has 5000 followers, not on the 5 million.
The only way to monetize the 5,000,001, especially since they're gathered around French cuisine, is if you switch your business model and you now start trying to sell French stuff or else it's not going to work. So this is what I mean by the relevance of the audience is the main thing, not the size. So is there a match between what you're selling and what they're interested in? That is what will determine where you focus.
Now the next question is, is there a way to migrate posts or migrate followers from the three O 1 to the 384 and blah, blah blah. Sorry, but the answer is no, you can't migrate followers. There's not how you cashew followers from one account to another. However, you can download all the data that you have on one account and use it for research for sales and marketing purposes. Now I don't know how to do that, but I remember that when I was trying to delete all my Instagram handles, I noticed that there was a page that I
said download data and I thought that's interesting. But anyway, I didn't download the data. So if you fool around, well, if it's important to you, just ask, maybe we can hook up on the phone call and try and figure this thing out. But we can figure out where there's a way that you can download the data. Now, when I've seen it myself, I didn't do it, but I've seen it. So you can download your data, use it for sales and marketing purposes.
In the future. There might be some insights there that will turn might be valuable Now when it comes to migrating posts. I don't know about now actually. But back in the good old days while I was still on Instagram, if you had one post on one page and the exact same post on the other page, you know, there was debate about whether it helped with the growth of the posts that maybe LinkedIn, sorry, I said LinkedIn that Instagram would look at it as is the same thing.
And so it's not going to push it out all that much. So I'm not sure what the state is because, yeah, it's possible that you can just take some images and repost on the other account. Bernie, that's not my area of specialty, but sure, I know that as of 2025, let's say you're listening to this and the year is 2087, maybe Instagram has made some changes, but in 2025, you can't migrate followers. Your followers on one account are your followers, full stop.
Then let's move up to the next question. Question is, should she build the 384 follower account because it has more followers? Apart from that, the thing seems to be growing rapidly but The thing is lacking engagement. Pay attention. Even though the 3841, the followership is higher and The thing is growing quickly, but engagement, it means people are not watching, people are not liking, people are not sharing, people are not commenting.
What that means is lots of people are jumping on, but they are not really interested in the content. And eventually it affects the algorithm. It affects deliverability in the future. Because if Instagram sees that lots of people are rushing to your page, but then when they get there, they do absolutely nothing. They don't watch, they don't like, they don't share, they don't comment. The algorithm will think OK, this content is not valuable and it will not show it to other people.
That is a thing that this lady has not realized. Now yes, this other one has more people and The thing is growing, but the engagement is 0. It is a bad sign and eventually it will cause things to slow down because these people are not engaging. Instagram is going to show the handle and the content less and less and less. So in my own opinion, switching to one that has a higher audience, even though you know that engagement is 0, is a very bad idea 'cause remember, at the end of the day, we are trying to sell something.
We are trying to promote something. We will not have the opportunity to sell or to promote. If engagement is 0, if people are not watching, if they are not sharing, if they are not commenting, if they are not sliding into DM, then what's the point? So on restructuring the 301 follower account which has more engagement, please pay attention. More engagement. That means on the three O 1 on the smaller handle, people are watching, people are liking,
people are sharing, people are sliding into DM, people are engaging. The problem is just that she thinks it is disorganized. That's what's giving her heartache. But please, from a sales and business development perspective, or I know that it is somehow to have an Instagram handle and the thing doesn't look sweet. It doesn't look nice. Especially for those of us who are creative. We want everything to look sound, you know, very appealing,
very nice. But from a sales and business development perspective, the main thing here is engagement. That is all should be paying attention to. So The thing is not growing. Yes, we are mid and the number of people here is smaller. Yes, we admit, but the engagement is high. The people who are here, they are watching, they are viewing, they are liking, they are sharing, they are sliding into your DM. Engagement is high from a sales and business development perspective.
When engagement is high, you are on the right track. Please listen. When engagement is high, you are on the right track. Your neighbor might have a bigger restaurant than you and 500,000 people go to his restaurant, you know, every year. But of the 500,000 people that go, if 80% of them leave and never come back, he's only retaining 20. He is not on the right track for you, it seems somehow because you're looking at the big restaurant, you're looking at all the cars that are coming through Jeep today, bench tomorrow, this and this that and that.
You'll be feeling somehow if you have your own small restaurant, you're not getting 500,000 people every year. You're only getting 100,000. But over that 100,000, your retention is 95%. That means people are coming back and eating over and over and over again. It does not look like it now, but actually right now you are the one who is in a better position. Your engagement is higher, your retention is higher. So that means that when you have the money to expand to other locations.
To add your menu, to open in another state, to open another local government, you will end up doing Better Business because your retention, your engagement, the metrics that matter, your own is high. So from a sales and business development perspective, these are the things that we are paying attention to. Social media are people watching, liking, sharing, sliding into DM. If they are, you're on the right track. Even if you only have 10
followers, you're on the right track because if you're doing it well when you have 10 followers, eventually when you go to 500 followers to 1000 followers, you will still do it well. So let's be paying attention to the metrics that matter. Then in our case, like I said, it's content. There are services that she's selling on the content. She's selling voice acting, she's selling podcasting. So having an engaged and not short audience is all make it easy for her to monetize in the future.
The higher Instagram handle. She admits that yes, there's nothing there about voice acting. There's nothing there about her coaching, There's nothing there about her acting. So why you, why pay attention to that one? The people who are there, the reason why they gather there. Well, anyway, you know, she just read in the group, but it was a private coaching session between me and her. You know, I would have, I would have asked.
OK, that big one. Then what exactly are you talking about over there? If you're not gathered around the thing that you're trying to sell, then please stop wasting your time. But however, here are some interesting things to consider. And this is one of the reasons why I tell creatives, and I'm talking to creatives now, if you're a photographer, you're a painter, you're a video person, you're a fashion designer, you are a sculptor, you are a, you know, creatives, creative,
creative creatives. We spend a lot of time focusing on the wrong thing. Let me give you an example. In this case, the lady is pining over to Instagram accounts. Do the math. What's the difference? The difference between both accounts is only 73 people. I repeat 73. Only 73 people. That is what all this emotional heartbreak is about, 73 people. The difference in the accounts is not 7000 people. It's not 700 people. It's not 7 million people.
It is only 73 people and the 73 people self, they are not even engaged. They are not engaging, they are not liking, they are not watching, they are not viewing, they are not sharing, they are not sliding into DM. Why would you go through the mental anguish and the mental strain of worrying about 73 people who are not even engaging with your content? What's the point sometimes you creatives who are paying attention to too many vanity stuff, it's not even worth the mental strain.
For me it's a non issue. The account that has all the engagement. Focus on that account because the other one it only has 73 people more and the other one people are not even engaging. It's a no brainer in my own opinion. If you're selling the voice acting, the podcasting, the coaching, the whatever. If I go and delete the other accounts, the higher one, you're putting your energy in two places. You're wasting your time.
It's not worth the stress. Then creatives, we focus too much on fanbase. It's not about fanbase. It's about huge bank account. I repeat, creatives, please wake up. It's not about a fanbase. It's about a huge bank account. Like creatives we talk about. Oh, this was a good movie. It opened to critical acclaim. Which one is critical acclaim? I need some critical cash in my bank. In my bank account. Is it critical? I came.
I claimed I'll pay for my children's school fees because, you know, we're dropping movies on Netflix and things like that. And people are like, oh, and this movie sold more, but this one has has better critical acclaim. Well, is it critical acclaim that I would shop? What's the point if there are two movie directors, one movie director every time he drops something. Ah, critical acclaim, critical acclaim, critical acclaim, win award up and down.
But then sales is 0 and then the other person, no critical acclaim, no awards. But then the person is cashing out 1,000,000 billions in the bank account. I'd rather be the second fellow. But of course the truth is somewhere in the middle. We should be creating art that we are proud of and that people can speak highly of. And there's no point in being a painter, you know, if you're going to be a rubbish painter. So yes, the truth is somewhere in the middle.
But please, creatives, let's stop focusing on how many people like us. It's not about how many people like us, it's about how many people pay us. It's not about how many people like us, it's about how many people are paying us. So it's not the huge fan base, but it's the huge bank account. Creatives, please, let's, let's focus on the main things, on the right things. We have bills to pay. You have to fix your car. You have to pay house rent.
Your children need school fees. Your wife's birthday is coming up. Your boyfriend's birthday is coming up. You haven't seen mums in a while. You have to travel to the village. Your siblings are in Australia. You haven't seen them in five years. Would be nice to travel to Australia, go and see your nephews and your nieces. You haven't made any contribution in church in the last seven years. Would be nice to drop something in the coffer.
Or you're a Muslim, you will have building, you know, a new mosque in another location. You haven't contributed anything. Will be nice to send something into the bank account. It's not about fan base, it's about the bank account. Please. So creatives, let's be focusing, please. So to get a huge bank account, since that's the goal, we need a highly engaged and nurtured audience. I repeat, a highly engaged and nurtured audience.
Those are the things you should be tracking on Instagram. Our followership count is nice, it is good, but so long as engagement is high, we are on the right track on Instagram. On social media, as long as there's a way we can nurture the audience we already have, we are on the right track. So I repeat again, in case we haven't gotten it, clearly there's no point in having 5 million followers on Instagram and engagement is 0.
You're better off having several 100 followers on Instagram but then your engagement is off the roof. You will have a chance of selling something to the 700 than selling something to the 7 million. And apart from that, you keep doing a good job. Over time, the 700 account will grow to 900, grow to 1000, grow to 2000, grow to 3000. But if you hack this whole thing of engagement and nurturing the audience, then as the account is growing and you're getting better chances to sell to promote something, the revenues will also increase.
Business is not a popularity contest. Creatives, please listen. Business is not a popularity contest. Then your Instagram does not have to be pretty. It doesn't have to be elegant. Creatives, your Instagram does not have to be pretty. It was based on prettiness. People that are popping off right now are making money, would not be popping off and making money. So yeah, if you wanted to be pretty, yeah, do your thing, make it pretty.
But please, what you're checking is not your own subjective standard of prettiness and elegance. What we should be checking is how engaged the audience is. Now the reason why I'm pointing this out is because some people change the Instagram handle until it gets pretty, but then things become quiet and then they're confused. If you're tracking the engagement as you're making changes, I see that engagement is dropping. Please stop.
Anything that you do that is affecting your engagement, please stop. If you're making it prettier and prettier but then less people are liking, sharing, sliding into DMS, commenting, then stop. Please. Because yes, if I did, what happened to me in my photography career, at some point I thought everything was not alright. I wanted everything to have a very uniform look. I took down all the old pictures overnight, Yeah, deleted everything.
And I put up a new set that I thought made sense based on my own artistic sensibilities. And the engagement just crashed. Yeah, people stopped liking, stopped sharing, stopped sliding into my DM because I wanted to make my Instagram prettier. It's not about pretty, it's about engagement. So remember when you're in this situation that the decisions we're making here, we are making business decisions here. We're not just making aesthetic decisions without social media aesthetics.
You know, it just means, you know, which one is fine, which one is sweet, which one is smooth, which one is correct. Those are not the decisions we're making here for people like my wife. My wife doesn't run a business, Mom, she doesn't run a business. They can do whatever they want with their Instagram handle, make it clean, make it whatever. But we are business people here. When we are making changes to our Instagram, to our LinkedIn,
to our TikTok, we are making business decisions. So anyway, I'm not take up to of your time. I think I've really stressed, but let me say it again, a general no to creatives everywhere. You're a creative, you like things nice and pretty and perfect. You're focusing too much on the pretty side of what you do. Don't focus on the pretty side, focus on the business side. Chances are you're really good at the pretty stuff.
And please, today I still hear about this whole thing of suffering artist and something something nothing is a delusion and is a lie from the pit of hell. This whole suffering artist thing like Van Gogh and the rest of them. When you are live penury nothing. When you die, then your artwork starts popping off. To whose benefit? I am dead. How am I going to get the money from it? Let's stop being suffering artists, please.
Those of us who have artistic bands, you know, we have a craft we're trying to pursue. We're trying to get this money, get this benefit in the here and now. Let it benefit me, let it benefit you. We should not die in penury. We should not die in poverty. That's offering artist thing is rubbish. You have voice over artist. You deserve to have a wonderful life and to make a wonderful living. You're a sculptor. You walk with wood, you walk and move with metal.
You deserve to have a wonderful life as well. You will only get that if you're paying attention to the things that count. It's not a popularity contest and we're making business decisions here. So long as there is engagement, people are engaging with your handle, engaging with your work of art, engaging with your whatever. People are seeing, people are viewing, people are liking, people are sharing, they're picking up the phone, they're entering into your DM.
All is well, even if your follower base is low. So let me stop there. And that's all for today, folks. If you have any sales or marketing questions, bring them to me. You can call, you can SMS, you can WhatsApp me on 08064662140. Thank you very much for your time and attention. I'll catch you, dear listener, at the next episode. Oh, don't worry, this is not a podcast for creatives and artists. You know, I talk about all kinds of business problems.
It just so happens that the lady who sent in the question happens to be a creative. And then, since I have a creative background as a former wedding photographer, sometimes I like to hop on the microphone and scold my people because my people are still stuck in a very one kind way of doing business. My font is correct. My brand color is correct. My this is correct. My that. Is that correct? Does everything look pretty?
Did everything line up? Stop focusing on the wrong things, please. If we have an engaged audience, we're on track, we're on course. So I'll catch you guys in the next episode.